Kev T Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've been reading through the various threads on here and become thoroughly confused. I've just bought a Heljan 20 that I'll fit with a Loksound XL V4, but I'm unsure what speaker to use and what sound file to use. I notice that the SWD sound is a new one and other sound projects have their fans. Is there a concensus on what is currently a good sound project and speaker? I can't say I'm concerned about rail clack and umpteen start cycles, I'm more concerned about a good sound qulaity. Cheers Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I've been reading through the various threads on here and become thoroughly confused. I've just bought a Heljan 20 that I'll fit with a Loksound XL V4, but I'm unsure what speaker to use and what sound file to use. I notice that the SWD sound is a new one and other sound projects have their fans. Is there a concensus on what is currently a good sound project and speaker? I can't say I'm concerned about rail clack and umpteen start cycles, I'm more concerned about a good sound qulaity. Cheers Kev An XL Loksound in a Heljan 20 assumes that this is O gauge? Projects for the XL used to be very different from the standard ESU Loksound V3.5 and Micro and the speaker was 32 ohms so not compatible with the smaller chip. Things may be different now but the number of projects available for the V4 are growing daily and it is still relatively easy to re-construct projects for classes where the original sound files are available. Perhaps you would correct us if our assumption on gauge is incorrect. As to quality, this is more dictated by the speaker size and installation which is considerably easier in O gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev T Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 An XL Loksound in a Heljan 20 assumes that this is O gauge? Projects for the XL used to be very different from the standard ESU Loksound V3.5 and Micro and the speaker was 32 ohms so not compatible with the smaller chip. Things may be different now but the number of projects available for the V4 are growing daily and it is still relatively easy to re-construct projects for classes where the original sound files are available. Perhaps you would correct us if our assumption on gauge is incorrect. As to quality, this is more dictated by the speaker size and installation which is considerably easier in O gauge. It's O gauge. Do you have any recommendations for the type and size of speaker to go for, and have you heard any of the V4 sound projects? regards Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I can recommend both the V3.5 & V4 XL for your Heljan 20. The V4 of course being the new version that has not long been over here. I have both in my O gauge fleet but currently replacing V3.5XL with the new V4. Its near enough a straight swap. But the V4 is much better for many reasons than the V3.5 including the sound. You can use 4 ohm speakers up to what ever you want really but much above 32ohms and the volume / performance starts to drop off. Don't forget as well that the V4XL has connections for two speakers allowing so very nice combinations of impedance, size etc. SWD have sound files for all the well known classes of diesels with Howes of Oxford offering a similar service and equally good sound files. Look at SWD's web site for speakers and physical sizes that will fit the 20. The bigger the better in some ways but some experimentation to meet your requirements / ears is always useful. I'm with Steve from SWD tonight working on some sound files configuring them for use in O gauge models so will ask him about the 20 as I dont have one in my fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi Kev, Spoke with Steve and he confirmed that the V4 XL will fit in the Heljan O Gauge 20 but its tight fit with the decoder having to be fitted in the long bonnet laying on its side. There is not the normal amount of room in this loco due to its narrow shape. This then has a knock on effect onto which speakers to use. The Bass Reflex speakers are quite nice and have a nice tone to them. If you talk to Caroline she will advise what you will need. I have recently standardised on the speaker combination of the ESU 40mm 50449 & ESU Visaton 50336 70mm x 40mm with excellent results in my O gauge fleet although this combination for your 20 wont fit. The 40 mm round speaker is mounted directly below the fan and with its black cone is not very visible in there but certainly gives an excellent sound output coping well with the higher frequencies whilst the big oval 70mm x 40mm supplies plenty of low end frequencies. These two speakers for me combined with the new V4 XL gives very good results and worth thinking about if you get around to getting diesels with a bit more room in them than the 20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev T Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi Kev, Spoke with Steve and he confirmed that the V4 XL will fit in the Heljan O Gauge 20 but its tight fit with the decoder having to be fitted in the long bonnet laying on its side. There is not the normal amount of room in this loco due to its narrow shape. This then has a knock on effect onto which speakers to use. The Bass Reflex speakers are quite nice and have a nice tone to them. If you talk to Caroline she will advise what you will need. I have recently standardised on the speaker combination of the ESU 40mm 50449 & ESU Visaton 50336 70mm x 40mm with excellent results in my O gauge fleet although this combination for your 20 wont fit. The 40 mm round speaker is mounted directly below the fan and with its black cone is not very visible in there but certainly gives an excellent sound output coping well with the higher frequencies whilst the big oval 70mm x 40mm supplies plenty of low end frequencies. These two speakers for me combined with the new V4 XL gives very good results and worth thinking about if you get around to getting diesels with a bit more room in them than the 20. Excellent; just the type of info I was hoping for thanks Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am sure some one on here has done a 20 sound install so hopefully they will be able to give you some installation tips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am sure some one on here has done a 20 sound install so hopefully they will be able to give you some installation tips. Legomanbiffo has just done a Class 20, not the easiest conversion re ESU, but do-able! His sound projects are available to listen to on www.dckits-devideos.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yes, I recently did an XL installation for Charlie. Heljan have provided space for the chip, and space for a sizeable round speaker. The speaker even faces down which is good. The only problem is that the spaces for chip and speaker overlap each other by about 50% ??!! Someone at Heljan clearly didn't think this through... I didn't have a lot of time to spend on milling the chassis for a speaker etc so I resorted to fitting an Alan Butcher bass reflex (ABS-229-RC) in the underframe facing down. The tank assembly was cut into three pieces and the two tank sides were screwed straight back on. The speaker then sits nicely in the middle and cannot be seen. The sound project is the same as my OO one with the settings tweaked to suit the Heljan mech and O gauge acoustics. The engine mic was only about 600mm from the exhaust so the sound is very clean and pure and free from rail noise, clacks etc. Charlie will sell you one if you wish; For the size of speaker the results were very good, plenty loud enough for the domestic / garden environment and probably for exhibition too. Hope this helps, Bif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnapper Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 ............The sound project is the same as my OO one with the settings tweaked to suit the Heljan mech and O gauge acoustics. .......... Hi Bif I'm intrigued. Are you able to list the details of the settings change for V4 in the 0 Gauge Heljan 20? I fitted a "00" sized one from DC Kits a couple of months ago, with an Alan Butcher speaker facing downwards. Love your sounds, but I had a bit of trouble with (I think) back-emf settings etc, Struggled to get the loco to run smoothly, so I'm keen to know what your tweaks are! (BTW No problems with overloading the chip - Heljan motors ain't what they used to be apparently!) Regards Tim Ingman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legomanbiffo Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Tim, The CV54 trick should get your motor running smoothly (set CV54 to 0, put the loco on the track with plenty of room in front and behind, then turn on F1. It will shoot off for about six feet whilst the chip checks out the motor response and adjusts itself accordingly, then stop. After that the motor should run smoothly). The other tweaks involve volume matching the various sounds (because the bigger speakers used for O gauge reproduce bass sounds more efficiently). Since you are using a OO/HO chip and a speaker normally used for HO/OO, you shouldn't need to do that. All of the above is detailed on a helpsheet which you can download from Charlie's website. The link is written on the slip of paper included with your chip. Bif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnapper Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Thanks Bif, I'll give it a whirl. Now found the info on main Digital Sounds page on Charlie's site Cheers Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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