mswjr Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hi all,Im building a mswjr 4-4-0 loco built by dubbs &co in the late 1800s ,ive a good side view G A but i have no info on the backhead and no photo ,so the backhead is only going to be approx copying locos of this period, I need to know can anyone tell me did locos of this time have sliding doors like the GWR type or were other types common, Been on the web for hours looks like early railway stuff is just not on there. Thanks all Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I assume you have looked at the Wid Swan books on the M&SWJR. Mike Barnsley's Vol 2 covers Locomotives but a quick scan doesn't reveal any cab photos or drawings. I assume you are referring to No.9 of 1893. As the M&SWJR was nothing to do with the GWR at the time, I am guessing but I would very much doubt that the locos had (m)any similarities so the boiler fittings would most likely be standard Dubs equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruciethefish Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Can't be specific about your particular loco, but many designs of this period would have been fitted with a bottom-hinged, flap-style oval door, quite common for the period... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Thanks Guys, Yes ive got the mswjr books but as you say there is no backhead pic, the loco is no 12,Spent all its mswj days here in cheltenham,(the loco shed is still here) think ill go for a hinge down type, As you say they had nothing to do with the western at that time,and i know theey hated each other, I was going to put something on it that resembles a gwr part, then i would tell people that the gwr copied mswjr practice that would get em going Thanks again garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Normal practise for bought in locos from later C19th onwards was for the purchasing railway to specify key fittings for the footplate crew to whatever they had established as standard. A quick glance through Hambleton's 'Locomotives worth Modelling' reveals a goodly variety of firehole door arrangements on late C19th designs. A round or ovoid (long axis horizontal) firehole, with either a bottom or side hinged door, and often a dropping top hinged flap to limit air admission while firing was in progress. (Mr Hambleton clearly enjoyed control layouts as he draws backheads and describes control dispositions with some regularity.) Which doesn't help with what specifically the OP's subject would have been fitted with. Unlikely that the twin sliding doors arrangement would have been fitted; didn't that come to Swindon on the De Glehn machines in Churchward's time? Dean locos were ovoid left side hinged firehole doors I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Haven't checked exhaustively, but the first two sources I checked have M&SWJR no.12 being a 2-4-0, one of a batch of three built by Dübs in 1894 (b/ns 3165-7, but unclear whether M&SWJR numbered them in builders' sequence). Dübs built a 4-4-0 (3076/1893) for M&SWJR which was no. 9. If you want to inspect, I think the nearest surviving Dübs example is an ex-NER 0-6-0 locomotive (1275) built in 1874 which is in the national collection, or the former South African A class locomotive outside the Mizens Railway in Hampshire (built 1900), although a number of Dübs locomotives closer in age survive on the continent. Unfortunately, I don't think I can help with detail shots that show the fire door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 ...Unlikely that the twin sliding doors arrangement would have been fitted; didn't that come to Swindon on the De Glehn machines in Churchward's time? Dean locos were ovoid left side hinged firehole doors I believe. Slightly OT, but no, they were a normal fitting on most of Dean's engines and had been fitted to Gooch's Rover or Alma class singles, at least in their final "renewed" form of the 1870s-80s. Examples of the latter are seen in the 1892 pictures of the broad gauge dump at Swindon. On the other hand, the horizontal ovoid shape appears to have been the norm on early haystack fireboxes, so the answer must lie somewhere in between. Nick edit: just found photos taken 1888 and 1890 of the renewed Iron Duke (built 1873) and Bulkeley (built 1880). The former has an almost round left hinged door, the latter has the later sliding doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks for that guys,Im going to fit sliding doors ive seen some good pictures of S E C R 4-4-0-D class loco that had sliding doors,but first ill try and look at that NER loco in the national collection.Thanks again Guys great help Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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