Delph - Signal operation during shunting (and other question)

[Dave Holt]

Any thoughts and suggestions would be most welcome regarding a couple of aspects on my layout based on the ex-LNWR branch terminus at Delph.

The layout is set in mid 1950's BR period and assumes that signalling was reinstated in the dying days of the LNWR to allow more intensive service than the one-engine-in-steam operation actually used. Of course, having created an imaginary signalling arrangement, noew comes the problem of how it would have operated!

The terminus consisted of a single platform road with a run-round loop and fan of goods sidings, all diverging from the loop. One siding, into a private mill, crossed back over the running line via a diamond crossing. The loop had a very short head shunt which wouls allow one to three wagons to be shunted without recourse to shunting out onto the running line. Anything longer and the coal drop road will involve shunting out onto the main line.

Entry into the loop/yard is controlled by a bracket home signal (signal 11 for the yard/loop) with FPL and exit from the yard/loop to the main line is controlled by a yellow arm ground signal (signal 7, which can be passed at caution into the head shunt).

The following photo shows the arrangement, as shown on the signal box mimic diagram:

 

 

The first question is - if shunting is being done out onto the main running line, what positions should the home and yard signals be in as the formation moves back and forth? Do they need to be repeatedly cleared and reset to danger each time the train reverses direction, or would some arrangement be made to have them both cleared or the train pass them at danger under authorisation from the signalman? The home signal is approximately a scale 170 yards from the box - flagging distance?

 

The second question is, hopefully, more straight forward. IN LNWR frames, were FPL levers nd ground frame release levers in the normal or reversed positions when locked?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm no expert on LNWR lever frames so Beast, SE or Flying Signalman are your experts for that one and one of them will no doubt be along soon.

 

On a point of techincality (perdantry) a yellow arm shunting signal - or a yellow arm miniature semaphore does not mean 'caution' when it is in the on position - it is at danger, just like any other shunting signal. What happens is that it has a different meaning from a red arm shunting signal when it is at danger.

 

Right now to your first question - my view is that in this situation, bearing in mind the gradient etc, I would not expect opposing locking to be omitted between signals & & 11, i.e. if one of them is cleared the other would be locked. And that would mean that each time the move needs to pass a signal the Signalman would have to pull-off the signal for it - you don't use flags when you have suitable fixed signals to do the job, in so doing you are effectively destroying the whole purpose of having fixed signals However if all the shunting is taking place from the 'main line' end (as would usually be the case I expect the Signalman would normally leave signal No.11 off and let the ground staff get on with the job, especially as that end of the slip is worked as a handpoint.

[beast66606]

StationMaster has given (as usual) the answer - one thing to note is there would be a starter on the single line, restricting any shunt moves from continuing to the next box.

 

There's always the chance that signalling would be ignored during shunt moves, providing authority wasn't around, and waving of hands would suffice.

 

FPL levers would be reversed when the points were locked, similarly ground frame releases would be reversed with the ground frame released.

 

 

Edit - I notice from your control panel blog that there is indeed a starter however the distant (numbered 15) would be fixed.

[Dave Holt]

Thank you both for your advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave.