Permission for new layout! Time to get planning

[jhock]

Well the good news is I have been given permission to start a new layout! The bad news is the space available to put the layout in. Being in 1 bed flat restricts what can be done, on the face of it it does not look to bad as I have 7 feet in which to make the layout, but the issue is the width, at one it can be no wider that 7 inches and at the other it can be no more than 10 inches max. It also needs to look good and blend in with the living room, so tall back scenes and fiddle yards are out,

 

I haven a theme in mind, I want the layout to be set in Maine or Vermont, some time in the last 20 years, I want the main feature to be a small wood chip yard with loading for pulp wood and wood chips, perhaps one other industry that handles box cars. HO scale.

 

Any one fancy help me plan it?

[Wherry Lines]

My initial thoughts are of a shunting puzzle style layout - either an Inglenook or a Timesaver. I would look on the late Carl Arendt's excellent website: http://carendt.us/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html

 

I expect Jack will be along shortly with his thoughts and ideas. He is infinitely more knowledgeable on US prototypes than I am.

[jhock]

My initial thoughts are of a shunting puzzle style layout - either an Inglenook or a Timesaver. I would look on the late Carl Arendt's excellent website: http://carendt.us/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html

 

I expect Jack will be along shortly with his thoughts and ideas. He is infinitely more knowledgeable on US prototypes than I am.

 

I was thinking that an inglenook type plan could work, maybe using the lead in track as scenic fiddle ward?

[long island jack]

It might be a help if you could tell us what type of stock/loco you plan on using,the size of modern pulp wood/chip cars are 60ft +(10in +).

 

This is right down Jacks street,be prepaired for lots of ideas!!!!!!

 

would there be room for a "fiddle stick" or some thing similar?

 

A photo of the space may help

 

Ray

[jhock]

Stock so far consists of a couple of Walthers Woodchip hoppers and and Exactrail wood chip hopper (lovely model), a few 50' box cars, an SW1200 and Bachman 45 tonnes.

 

Even a fiddle stick could be difficult as at one end is a book shelf and the other end is a wall, I will try and get a picture later so it is easer to understand what I am going on about.

 

Thank for the suggestions so far!

 

As you look at the space on the left is 7 inches wide, and the right can be up to 12 inches wide (re measured it).

[shortliner]

Would it be possible to have a removable Fiddlestick that is only fitted while operations are taking place - and have it coming out at right-angles and turning that end through 90° into the room - making it into an L shape? - something like this http://translate.google.ca/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fteamtrack.xooit.com/t984-Reseau-modulaire.htm as an example. (NOTE that this link is a translation from the original French - the English may be a little strange!)The fiddlestick would be supported on a foldable leg - just thunking out loud, ideas-wise. I'm assuming (which I never should) that you are working in HO?

[dave1905]

Would it be possible to have a removable Fiddlestick that is only fitted while operations are taking place - and have it coming out at right-angles and turning that end through 90° into the room -

 

With such a narrow shelf to get any of the curve on the shelf, it would require the curve to start at the extreme back of the shelf which means it eats up valuable space too.

 

My suggestion is to build a fiddle stick that clamps to or is otherwise is supported by a shelf in the book case. The fiddle connection comes off the front of the layout and makes sort of an "S" curve to get in front of the book case. One end of the stick bolts to the layout and the other has a bracket that rest on a bookcase shelf and is held in place by a C clamp or a clamp with suitable rubber jaws so as not to damage the shelf. The bracket would look like a big Z with the top attached to the underside of the stick and the bottom on the shelf and the vertical part as tall or short as required.

[shortliner]

Translating the linked diagram into PECO code 100 OO/HO track using 1 x LH and 1 x RH med rad ,and 1 x Setrack RH curved turnout gives you this. The entire vertical part including the angled bit is removable supported by a folding leg the main part is fixed - the two buildings on the fiddle-stick are removed for storage. I haven't drawn in the roads to leave the diagram reasonably clear. Buildings are listed per the original diagram The removable fiddle section is attached to the main board by the method of your choice

 

EDIT Just noticed that an adjustment needs to be made to the Fiddlestick - I have the join for the Fiddlestick and the fixed board through the middle of the turnout - ooops!

 

[shortliner]

Modified - It still involves cutting through the longer leg of the turnout, but that should not cause too much trouble

 

[jhock]

Thanks for the plans Jack!

 

To give you an idea of what the space is like have taken a (bad) picture with the IPad.

 

I had a thought, what if the fiddle stick, came out in the middle, it does not have to come out at 90 degrees, that way that the turn off the layout could be more shallow?

 

 

The space on the left is 7 inches and on the right I can fit in 12 inches and not foul the curtain.

[shortliner]

You asked for pulp-wood/wood-chips in Maine and said possibly an Inglenook! You rang a bell! If you move this up to HO scale, and move it to the other side of the USA, you have what you asked for, and it should fit your space! Narrow end at left - wider end at right. You could even bring the tail-track forward onto a fiddlestick angled in front of the bookcase - it should hold a 5:3:3 without problem even using longer cars.

 

Scrapbooks #88 and #92 Google the Hull-Oaks Sawmill in Oregon, also Dawson Station

 

Videos on Youtube including a 3-part run over the line

Hope it solves your problem

[jhock]

You asked for pulp-wood/wood-chips in Maine and said possibly an Inglenook! You rang a bell! If you move this up to HO scale, and move it to the other side of the USA, you have what you asked for, and it should fit your space! Narrow end at left - wider end at right. You could even bring the tail-track forward onto a fiddlestick angled in front of the bookcase - it should hold a 5:3:3 without problem even using longer cars.

 

Scrapbooks #88 and #92 Google the Hull-Oaks Sawmill in Oregon, also Dawson Station

 

Videos on Youtube including a 3-part run over the line

Hope it solves your problem

 

Good call Jack!

 

I know Hull Oakes and it would work quite well, I have a couple of 72' centre beams lurking about the place too! I could also use some box cars, I could work in a pulp wood loading area, not something Hull Oakes do, but I am using it as inspiration and not making a prototype copy.

[shortliner]

Pulpwood into grinder mill

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9PI91DmRhw

 

 

Wood chip loader

second picture down may be useful to you http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22356 - There is a very expenzive brass kit made by Traincat http://www.traincat2.com/Manuals/Woodchip.pdf but it may be best to scratch build

 

Suitable gon loader here9about third photo down http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/1183

 

Not sure if these are still available http://www.euromodeltrains.com/cgi-bin/search_item.pl?ss=V2FsdGhlcnMgQ29ybmVyc3RvbmV8MzUyNiAg

[jhock]

Cheers Jack,

 

That's looks like a perfect scratch building project, time to brake out the the plasticard!

 

I will watch the video when am not one the iPad, damn Apple and their dislike of flash!

[shortliner]

Look forward to seeing how you get on with it - I always like to see what other people make of suggestions

 

I did come up with another idea, following your query about taking the track off the middle - take a look at http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page84/index.html -

NARROW N SHELF ALLOWS OPERATION IN VIRTUALLY NO SPACE - one up from the bottom, and consider bringing a turnout at an angle off the track following the right-most turnout - It will almost certainly need to be made as a mirror image to fit your space constraints - but that would give you an Exchange/fiddle track to bring stuff on and off the layout - it would provide a Mindheim-type operation

[jhock]

Well I had planned to make a start today, even bought a jig saw to make life easy, but the rain has stopped play as I don't have a shed to work in.

 

So might have a crack at the chip loader instead.

[jhock]

Just deciding which make of track to use for this layout, first instinct is Peco Code 83, easy to get hold off and fairly true to the prototype.

 

However I like the look of the Micro Engineering code 70 turn outs and track, has any one used it?

 

Also can you get hold of it in the UK?

 

I wonder if I am trying to make life hard for self and should just the code 83 from Peco?

[long island jack]

I think Dave1905 idea is a better choice,make the board 12 x 84,with fiddle stick in front of bookcase,make it high enough so chair etc can still go underneath, you could finish the front with some timber to match the bookcase,if you start going around the corner it will interfere with the curtains,in my house that would be a no no,SWMBO would have me out on my ear.

 

go with peco code 83 its easy to get hold of,as big a point as you can fit in,but you really need to sort out your track plan first, then see what size points you can get away with

 

Ray

[jhock]

Ok, had a go at putting my ideas down on paper as i do not have any track planning software (you would not believe I work in IT):

1. Wood chipper and waste and slab wood unloading area
   
2. The chip loader (connected to the chipper via a pipe)
   
3. High Quaility hard wood loading area and sorting track
   
4. Enigine shed/service facility (this is only a possible, I am not sure about it at present)
   

Below and to the left you can see the fiddle stick that will go in front of the book case.

 

The plan is roughly to scale (the turns outs are the right lenght), the markers represent 1 foot.

 

I borrowing heavily from Mike Calfalones layout that appeard in Model Railroad Planning 2007, not for the track plan but fo the industries, I have moved the time period to the present day, his in set in 1978.

 

[long island jack]

Hows this,code 83 #6 points, code 75 short crossing,unloading for woodchip/woodpulp,4 unloading places for boxcars,one place for tank car.

 

 

you could use #5 instead of #6 which may make sidings longer but not by much

 

hope this helps or gives you some ideas

 

Ray

[DonB]

A little surprised that Jack (Shortliner) hasn't suggested that you disguise the fiddle-stick as a ferry, he likes those things a lot!

The whole thing then becomes wharf-side industries.

[jhock]

Thanks guys, I like the plan Ray.

 

As much as I like dock side layouts it is not quite what I am after with this layout, I am looking a for rural feel, I have a bit of thing for the timber industry hence wanting to have wood chip and timber loading.

 

However I am open to suggestion, I can see that the small nature of the layout would lend itself to an urban setting. I am going to make a start on the boards as soon as I can so I can layout some track templates and get feel for how it will look.

[shortliner]

A little surprised that Jack (Shortliner) hasn't suggested that you disguise the fiddle-stick as a ferry, he likes those things a lot!

The whole thing then becomes wharf-side industries.

 

I admit that I did consider it , but unless you wanted to model the Slocan/ Kootenay lakes (and they are on the other side of the Continent in British Columbia) type of operation, it would be difficult to justify the operations

[jhock]

 

 

I admit that I did consider it , but unless you wanted to model the Slocan/ Kootenay lakes (and they are on the other side of the Continent in British Columbia) type of operation, it would be difficult to justify the operations

 

Just a quick look on line at some images, it does look tempting, looks like the timber industry was involved also! That's the trouble With this hobby, to many choices!

[shortliner]

Indeed there was a tie-in with lumber/logging - there is one of the Model Rairoader layoutbooklets that they give awaywith the magazine every now and again that features it as a roundy-roundy layout with a tug/barge interchange - there were some photos on Train Orders.com a while back, by Eminence Grise, of the operation. I probably have a copy of the booklet somewhere - where it might be hiding is another matter entirely!