A Noise That Annoys

[TheSignalEngineer]

DCC sound is making great progress, but there are a few things that grate on me when I visit exhibitions.

 

1) A TMD layout with 10 diesels simutaneously emitting a high pitched whine from tinny speakers (pet hate, I always think it distracts from some very high quality models)

 

2) Seeing a very nice 7mm 2 cylinder steam loco pull away with the exhaust going at 6 beats to the revolution, then as it gains pace the sound doesn't change, gradually becoming 5 beats to the revolution.

 

3) Watching a DMU from several feet away when Two on the Buzzer is louder that the engine noise. In real life would you hear it from 100 yards with the doors and windows closed?

 

4) Diesel engine or steam exhaust noise is not train noise. It is not even the complete loco noise. What about a bit of clanking of conrods and banging of buffers? How about a bit of wheel squeal?

 

I know a lot of people are putting a lot of work into getting realistic sounds and i don't want to dissuade them from their efforts, but does anyone else find some of the performances given annoying rather than adding to the scene?

 

(Puts on tin hat and flak jacket)

[gridwatcher]

• I am a great advocate of DCC sound and yet I agree with all your points. TMDs are an awful racket, We once (just for spite) had 5 pairs of 20s all running on Airthrey Park, you could hear it 1/2 a mile away!! I believe/and we order that only locos in work are running. In any case the start up/switch off is more interesting than the incessant tick over of e.g. 20s, 66s etc
  
• Steam sound really doesn't work except in running past type layouts, the sound at stations is totally decoupled from movement, which DCC sound cannot achieve.
  
• Two on the buzzer needs to become a much quieter sound on the DMU spectrum, I will have a chat with Bryan and request that on any future projects.That said the other sounds on DMUs like the 'beeper' on doors of 150/156/158 is a loud noise in real life.
  
• Most chips have wheel squeal and clank, also the noise of freight train couplings clanking and tighteneing. When used cleverly it is really effective. The problem being those of us with large fleets need to really learn the decoders and unfortunately there is no standard, I would love flange squeal to be always F7 and couplings tightening up F8 etc etc but they aren't?! I hope those supplying our ever improving sounds can come to an agreement? Then again I have about 40 sound fitted US locos as well and their F functions aren't standard either yet (if a little more consistent than here)
  
• You can take you tin hat and flak jacket off and I for one will take all that you say on board and keep that thought in mind at all times when we are at exhibitions!!
  

[Southernman46]

I once operaed at an exhibition where a MOP has stood in front of the layout and made his own "train" noises including two-tone SR EMU horns (the layout is Swiss RhB). Very unnerving - cue me trying to hide behind a mountain whilst trying to keep the trains running.

[Nigelcliffe]

Steam sound can be synchronised properly, and setup so that locos do not chuff to a stop. But it takes time to setup and needs to be done precisely for each locomotive.

 

The bigger problem for any sound is the noise of the rolling stock; near where I sometimes work some modern container freights roll past several hundred yards away. The rolling stock makes far more noise than the class 66 on the front.

 

But, I agree that many sound layouts seem to consist of people "playing loud noises" and not really trying to get a decent simulation of the real sounds.

 

- Nigel

[mezzoman253]

For me the weakest point is the diesel horns. Only one I've heard sounded anything like the real thing. They are far too tinny, that may in some part be due to the speaker/enclosure.

 

Rob.

[Kenton]

one of many differences between modelling and playing trains. Never really liked it and have no enthusiasm for it - particularly at exhibitions where the sounds generated - often at far too high volume to announce "we have sound fitted", interfere with the enjoyment of nearby layouts/trade.

 

I have seen some layouts where it is more subtlety done and where you have to listen to hear - but also some layouts where screaming sounds seem to be all there is.

 

Of course in the privacy of your own home if it adds to your personal enjoyment of running trains then fine. Just hand out the earplugs for expos or keep it for behind your closed doors.

[pauliebanger]

A decent decoder will allow you to adjust the volume of any individual sound. But of course that requires the operator to know how to use the facility.

 

I may have mentioned before, (Stoney ground?) but Zimo sound decoders have always had the ability to change individual sounds completely or change their volume. This can be done by anyone with a DCC controller- no reprogramming needed. So it's easy to correct such 'faults' that annoy. I believe that LokV4.0 can do this too, but I've yet to find anyone using the opportunity to 'balance' the sound correctly after the sounds have been loaded.

 

Come to any of my sound clinics or seminars and hear what is possible, please don't judge all projects from poor experiences with R-T-R sounds. They are not representative of the quality end of the market that independents can offer. I'll be at Spalding and maybe Peterborough. I don't sell stuff, so come and have a chat for free with no catches. Come and listen to steam locos whose exhaust sound does change with speed and reverser position, controller influenced. I know I will not convert everyone, but I'm happy to try. Ha ha!

 

As for sound at exhibitions; if it annoys you, do what I do. I just walk past the stuff I'm not interested in - basically, anything that has steam engines that sound like electrics - but I would not dream of suggesting that they should keep their stuff behind closed doors.

 

Exhibitions exist to promote all aspects of the hobby, and like it or not, DCC layouts are becoming more common, and sound fitted locos are a growing presence. Like 'Garlic Bread' it might not be to your taste, but 'it's the future'. (Appologies to Peter Kay).

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[leopardml2341]

Steam sound can be synchronised properly, and setup so that locos do not chuff to a stop. But it takes time to setup and needs to be done precisely for each locomotive.

 

 

Anyone who's seen (heard) the Fairburn tank station pilot on The Lairds Bradfield GS will appreciate exactly what Nigel is getting at. Not a bespoke product, just a lot of effort, as Nigel says, is well rewarded.

 

Rgds,

 

Andy

[Allegheny1600]

A hot topic this and one that I'm sure will quickly become controversial (so, can we PLEASE carefully consider what we type?).

 

I have recently had a very interesting conversation that really opened my eyes (& ears!).

The high pitched tinny whistling produced by our model sound decoders can REALLY affect people with hearing aids!

This being a hobby that is enjoyed by a lot of people who are advancing in years means that that can be a good proportion of the hobby's members! Therefore, no wonder so many people find sound so annoying!

I personally love sound and find it adds an additional dimension to operating my locos! Indeed, it is commented upon in a good number of US layout articles - that folk operate better and more realistically with sound than without.

All we need to do is turn the volume DOWN, ideally so that the sound can only be heard from a scale hundred yards away! In terms of our models, that really means only about 4 or 5 feet! This would mean that you'd only hear a model loco loudly if you were to put your head to within one foot of it.

As an example, my P4 EE type 1 is now down to volume level 6 (or, 4?!!) out of a possible 64!

Remember, speakers of all sizes perform better when NOT at full volume!

Cheers,

John E.

[Kenton]

As for sound at exhibitions; if it annoys you, do what I do. I just walk past the stuff

 

The problem with that is there would be no expo worth visiting. There are some very good modelling on layouts that are simply spoiled by the operators turning up (not knowing how to turn down) the volume. I go to shows to visit the trade stands and be able to speak to the proprietors without having to shout. My sympathies always go out to those layouts adjacent without sound or with sensible volume that have to suffer the noise all day - at least as a visitor it is possible to simply walk past (make a quick exit) - even though you can hear the noise all round the hall - sometimes. It also seems to be more of a problem with diesel layouts especially "continental" - but that is a generalisation as I have seen and heard some pretty spectacular layouts where the sounds are less offensive. For me no matter how realistic you care to make it, it simply does not fit in being just one specific sound in an overall picture.

[Mod3]

After a positive start the topic rapidly gets back to the old chestnut of

 

"I like sound"

 

"I hate sound"

 

or any level of volume in the middle.