jhock Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am trying to find out if the Altas Trainman hoppers I own could be used for cement service, I have 2 of the ACF 3560 3 bay covered hoppers, I can't find any useful information on what they would have used for. I can see current hoppers can go up to about that capacity for cement but I am not sure about these cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 If my math is right, cement (Portland or mortar) is a bit dense for these cars. Cement is between 1500 (Portland) and 2200 (mortar) kg/cu. m (internet source, take with multiple grains of salt). 1500 would be over 90 lbs/cu. ft, while the Atlas info says that those cars were designed for materials in the 50-60 lbs/cu. ft range. From the description on the Atlas website: The three-compartment ACF® 3560 Center Flow Covered Hopper was designed for the transport of high-density dry bulk ladings of 50 – 60 pounds per cubic foot. About 2,214 cars were built from 1967 – 1972. This Center Flow Covered Hopper transported a wide variety of commodities, including salt, fertilizer, starch, bauxite, and clay. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted October 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2012 I would agree with Adrian. I will stand to be corrected but i think a 2 bay cov-hop is about the biggest you'l have for cement service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 I thought that might be the answer. Looking around no one in the UK seems to have any of the Walthers 2 bay hoppers in stock, which is a bit of pain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Here's a 3-bay hopper that's fairly common in cement service. I believe the Atlas Trainman style ACF cars lettered for the Alaska Railroad were in cement service, and the type of CEFX car shown is also found in Alaska. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 More current cars may be able to handle cement in 3-bay hoppers, but those ACF 3560s are probably only rated at 100 tons. That means the 50-60 lbs/cu. ft value makes sense as 60 x 3560 is 213600 lbs or 106+ (short) tons. You could potentially carry sand for the mix in those cars as it wouldn't be as dense. As an aside, I've seen lot of older covered hoppers (some still carrying logos of long-gone railroads) in shale-gas sevice in upper Pennsylvania, carrying fracking sand. On my last trip south there were somewhere over 100 various 2- and 3-bay hoppers just south of Corning NY, and a bunch more at Tioga Junction, PA (effectively the north and south ends of the Wellsboro and Corning), all to support the shale gas drilling in the Wellsboro area. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The signal box at Rochester has a few Atlas ps-2,there not under Atlas,there in the Athearn section,don't know which road names you want? Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I found this scan http://www.alaskarails.org/bibliography/periodical/railway-age-1955.jpg from a Railway Age 1965 story on the Alaska Railroad cars: they were intended for bulk cement service in the summer and grain service from the lower 48 in the winter. For that matter, I have a model of a Clinchfield 3-bay Pullman Standard car that's stenciled for a cement loading level -- it appears that 3-bay cars were in fact sometimes used for cement service, but not cubed out when loaded that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I found this scan http://www.alaskarai...ay-age-1955.jpg from a Railway Age 1965 story on the Alaska Railroad cars: they were intended for bulk cement service in the summer and grain service from the lower 48 in the winter. For that matter, I have a model of a Clinchfield 3-bay Pullman Standard car that's stenciled for a cement loading level -- it appears that 3-bay cars were in fact sometimes used for cement service, but not cubed out when loaded that way. Yes, as long as they weren't filled to the limit they could be used, but the issue with that is that you are now dragging the extra tare weight around (plus you need more care on loading). I can see this for a fleet where the cars are only used for that traffic for part of the year. For a fleet that is dedicated to cement traffic, I would expect smaller cars that can be cubed out. So jhock can use his 3560s in cement traffic. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Here's a shot of my Clinchfield covered hopper with cement stenciling:I don't know why they would do this -- it's stenciled for cement loading only, not even dual use. I haven't dug out my ORERs yet to see if there's any mention there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Possibly it was intended to be a multi-use car, but they found that was impractical and dedicated it to one service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It is also possible that they needed a small number of cement cars so they added them to a larger order for 3-bay covered hoppers rather than having a special run of smaller cars. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Atlas Portland Cement in Kingsport was one of their top customers, for whatever that's worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 I found some on eBay from a guy in the states who I have bought from before, £9 to get three delivered to the UK and £12 a car, could be worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The signal box at Rochester has a few Atlas ps-2,there not under Atlas,there in the Athearn section,don't know which road names you want? Ray Be aware - I ordered some things from them earlier this week and got a call later in the day to say they didn't have either in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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