Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Whilst operating Waterloo Road over the weekend at Peteerborough I had sneaked my unfinished Earl Marischal onto the 1960-ish BR layout as a Sunday afternoon piece of silliness. I was quite puzzled but tried to remain polite and helpful when one visitor asked me, apparently seriously, why the cylinders were "painted" white.....

 

Work on my P2 conversions will have to be suspended now owing to the other things that I need to do. Before I put them aside for a rest however, I thought that even if Earl Marischal will have to be taken apart again if resin duplication of conversion parts is to be tried, and will subsequently need a proper spray-painted overall finish, it would be nice just to get a clearer impression of the likely final look. Quick brush application of some almost-matching green mixture, some black, and some dull red set me up for taking these photographs.

 

 

 

Splendid work as usual Graeme.

 

I've just put the frames together of an ACE kit of the same one-off. I'll report accordingly.

[jwealleans]

ACE, eh?  We await with interest.

[gr.king]

The good thing about building the "two of diamonds" kit for Earl Marischal of course is that the frames will be thin plate with space between, rather than the usual RTR solid block. This affords the opportunity, should you wish, to install a full, or partial, working representation of the UKIP endorsed, outstandingly excellent, Holcroft-Gresley conjugated valve motion. This will provide the model with excellent credentials in readiness for the election of a proper government and the banning of all other deviant forms of piston valve operation on three cylinder steam locomotives along with the prohibition of clearly false claims that three cylinders are un-necessary complication compared to good two cylinder design. As for making any suggestion that four cylinder simple propulsion is a better idea still, well that will quite correctly become a treasonable offence.

 

I hope I'm giving a correct account of UKIP policy on steam locomotives here. I have it on good authority from a man who was in the same room as Nigel Farage within the last week, but who didn't actually ask him, that UKIP policy would undoubtedly be along the lines that I have stated.

[Tony Wright]

The good thing about building the "two of diamonds" kit for Earl Marischal of course is that the frames will be thin plate with space between, rather than the usual RTR solid block. This affords the opportunity, should you wish, to install a full, or partial, working representation of the UKIP endorsed, outstandingly excellent, Holcroft-Gresley conjugated valve motion. This will provide the model with excellent credentials in readiness for the election of a proper government and the banning of all other deviant forms of piston valve operation on three cylinder steam locomotives along with the prohibition of clearly false claims that three cylinders are un-necessary complication compared to good two cylinder design. As for making any suggestion that four cylinder simple propulsion is a better idea still, well that will quite correctly become a treasonable offence.

 

I hope I'm giving a correct account of UKIP policy on steam locomotives here. I have it on good authority from a man who was in the same room as Nigel Farage within the last week, but who didn't actually ask him, that UKIP policy would undoubtedly be along the lines that I have stated.

Brilliant Graeme,

 

Just in case folk are a little puzzled, some months ago I posted a robust response to one comment on another thread, where I defended the long-lived A3s. The original comment was along the lines (awful pun!) of the Holcroft-Gresley conjugated gear being pretty awful and (by implication) should have been taken off and replaced long ago. My response was that the traffic managers in BR steam days responsible for running many of the principal trains on no fewer than seven pre-Grouping lines were quite happy to use the A3s, in some cases right up to the end of steam. Even though they had the discredited valve gear. For those interested, it was the GNR, NER, NBR, CR, MR, G&SWR and the GCR. It's eight if you include the GWR joint through the Chilterns. No other pre-Nationalisation express passenger loco class can claim that accolade! So much for dud gear indeed.

 

The original poster's response was that he did not expect a UKIP spokesman's account, or something like that. I replied no more, and disappeared from public life, because I had no wish to display my many mistakes beforehand. Mistakes? Principally, my indolence, lack of foresight and complete ignorance of UKIP's policy on conjugated motion (or any other steam loco gear). In short, I'd made the cardinal mistake in not contacting a member of that party and asking the question about how he/she felt with regard to the Holcroft-Gresley gear, and whether his/her opinion was representative of the whole party's view.

 

When someone next meets a member of UKIP, will they please ask, because I have no wish to mis-represent them.

 

As for the kit in question (your printed description), I've been asked to build it and write the instructions for it. It's scaled down from a 7mm kit of the second P2, so we'll see. I have to say, the frames look pretty good so far.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Tony Wright

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Ah, but where do they stand on the Great Unresolved Thompson Debate?  Better minds than mine require an answer.  

[Tony Wright]

Ah, but where do they stand on the Great Unresolved Thompson Debate?  Better minds than mine require an answer.  

And mine!

[bbishop]

 

 

The original poster's response was that he did not expect a UKIP spokesman's account, or something like that. I replied no more, and disappeared from public life, because I had no wish to display my many mistakes beforehand. Mistakes? Principally, my indolence, lack of foresight and complete ignorance of UKIP's policy on conjugated motion (or any other steam loco gear). In short, I'd made the cardinal mistake in not contacting a member of that party and asking the question about how he/she felt with regard to the Holcroft-Gresley gear, and whether his/her opinion was representative of the whole party's view.

 

When someone next meets a member of UKIP, will they please ask, because I have no wish to mis-represent them.

 

Well, I took the responsibility on behalf of the RMWeb community, of asking UKIP headquarters.  The answer was that locomotives shouldn't have any valve gear.  When I mentioned Walschaert's, I was told they didn't want foreigners over here and tohave a pint of English bitter.  Further elucidation determined that he though that I'd asked "what values should we have?" 

Bill

[Mod4]

Just a reminder that, even though light hearted, politics is a topic of course not allowed here on RMweb, it certainly has an effect on my diodes....especially the left ones!

[bbishop]

Apologies, but I'm a member of Southwark Diocesan Synod...... And it isn't known as "red" Southwark for no reason! And now I'm in even more trouble for introducing religion .....

Bill

[Woollydog]

There's a reasonable photo of the privy by the signal box at Little Bytham Junction in 'Branch lines around Spalding', Middleton Press 2009.

[Tony Wright]

There's a reasonable photo of the privy by the signal box at Little Bytham Junction in 'Branch lines around Spalding', Middleton Press 2009.

Many thanks,

 

I have the book. Why didn't I look?

[The Stationmaster]

Many thanks,

 

I have the book. Why didn't I look?

Simple fact of prototype research - the last place we usually look in our libraries is in the most obvious book of the lot  (I have a  number of tee shirts to that effect ).

[Woollydog]

On the 'systonandpeterborough.co.uk' site there's a colour photo of a very similar if larger privy at Manston Junction SB that looks planked, (p5) and at Wymondham Level Crossing (p2) a keepers hut in the same style, most definitely planked. Maybe common panels were cut to size for such buildings.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Woollydog

[gr.king]

Just for completeness, for the time being......

The temporary paint finish on 2002 looks even uglier in this daylight picture, but it serves to demonstrate that the provision of steam pipe covers has not been forgotten, even if I overlooked them last night:


I include the next picture simply as visible proof that a smokebox door can be pushed out of a Hornby P2 without wrecking things. This one looked from within suspiciously solidly glued, the deep rebate on its rear edge appearing to have plenty of evidence of having been thoroughly coated in glue. When I first started pushing around the very close-fitting curved parts of the rebate joint, it seemed as if nothing was willing to move. I then started pushing at the flat top part of the rebate joint and thought I could see very slight flexing of the door relative to the main body moulding. On slipping the flat blade of a large jewellers screwdriver into the flat part of the (internal) joint towards one end, and giving it a slight twist, the faint sound of cracking glue arose. I repeated this at the other end of the door top joint. One more push lower down and the undamaged door came out of the undamaged hole in the body with a further faint cracking sound. I only bother to mention this and show the result as anybody wishing to try to alter the top hinge and create a proper vertical hinge-pin will no doubt find access vastly better with the door clear of the arched tops of the smoke deflectors.

Edited October 22, 2014 by gr.king

[MJI]

Well, I took the responsibility on behalf of the RMWeb community, of asking UKIP headquarters.  The answer was that locomotives shouldn't have any valve gear.  When I mentioned Walschaert's, I was told they didn't want foreigners over here and tohave a pint of English bitter.  Further elucidation determined that he though that I'd asked "what values should we have?" 

Bill

 

Valve gear?

 

Holes in the cylinder wall and supercharger scavenging should be good enough for ECML power

[salmonpastures]

Ah, but where do they stand on the Great Unresolved Thompson Debate?  Better minds than mine require an answer.  

Who'd take the P out of Thompson,,,, & if we did we'd still be left with Thomson,,,, personally I have no time for the man,,,,probably for the same reason the Dutch wouldn't have let some 2nd rate DAF mechanic have a go at improving a van Gogh!!!

 

How very dare he!!!

 

SAD

[salmonpastures]

There's a reasonable photo of the privy by the signal box at Little Bytham Junction in 'Branch lines around Spalding', Middleton Press 2009.

That's convenient,,, I do hope it's well sealed,,,arf arf throw me a pilchard!!!!

Better be careful as technically I suppose privy's and seals could come under politics as well!!!

 

SAD

[queensquare]

This thread has just started over on Western Thunder which I suspect may well be of interest to one or two of you.

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/york-1958-to-1961.3983/

 

Jerry

[coronach]

Tony,

Wonderful photos and interesting discussions, as always.

 

I am building a model based on the Waverley route (see Whinburgh and Slitrigg), in which I am attempting to capture the spirit of the route in terms of the way it was operated as well as recreating the trains that ran between Edinburgh and Carlisle.  I believe that one can create a realistic model of a particular railway without recreating an actual location.

 

Some aspects of railways are very difficult to capture in model form, including those things that assault the senses but are not visible.  This includes smells (smoke, oil, creosote etc) and sounds.  My father managed some of the smells with his O gauge clockwork garden railway, which included coarse scale track built with code 200 bullhead rail and pine sleepers liberally coated with creosote - very evocative on the hot summer days in 1976!  Of course we now have DCC sound to provide the audible dimension for locomotives if we are prepared or able to pay for it.

 

May I refer you to my post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91707-diddly-dum/.  In my opinion, one of the most evocative sounds of the steam age is that of steel wheels on steel rail.  Just listen to the Peter Handford recordings (I'm sure you must have!!).  Whilst I am not advocating that you should start chopping into your wonderful track, I would be interested in your opinion and whether you think a layout such as Little Bytham would be enhanced with a few rail joints.

[westerner]

Not sure how Tony will reply to that, however, the sound of stock coming out of his fiddleyards over the numerous points and across the track joint on the lifting flap was very evocative compared to the comparative silence as trains thundered through the scenic area.

[coachmann]

Gaps in rails work best if there aren't too many. In real life we hear the closest clickety click and then the next one if some 60 feet away. Too many on a model and you end up with a cacophony of noise.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 silence as trains thundered

 

[westerner]

 Perhaps speeded would have been better than thundered.

Edited October 22, 2014 by westerner

[Jol Wilkinson]

"Stormed" implies quiet, but energetic

Been out in a storm lately? I don't think so.

[Tony Wright]

Not sure how Tony will reply to that, however, the sound of stock coming out of his fiddleyards over the numerous points and across the track joint on the lifting flap was very evocative compared to the comparative silence as trains thundered through the scenic area.

Thanks Alan,

 

An interesting oxymoron if I may be so bold.

 

The notion of the 'clickety-click' over 60' joints is appealing, but seldom works in practice - as Larry so rightly points out.

I notched the rails on Stoke Summit and Charwelton at ostensibly 60' scale lengths, but the notches would have needed to be so big to get any real effect, especially in a crowded exhibition hall. As it was, there was a faint clickety-click, but it was confused by the proximity of board joints, and lost completely in the general blabber.

 

Because none of my models actual sounds like a real train in motion, I honestly think it's a waste of time. I try to make my locos as silent as possible, an ideal helped on Little Bytham by the scenic-side track being laid on foam. As it is, as you know, there is some mechanical noise, but more in the fiddle yard where there are more points close together and the track is pinned directly to the 9mm ply. Too many layouts have steam-outline locos imitating coffee grinders, so any 60' notching would be drowned anyway.

 

No, to me, it's the visual effect that's most important, because that's the only way, in my opinion, that I can attempt to replicate, say, a B&W prototype picture. I cannot capture Peter Handford's brilliant prototype recordings in model form (even if I embraced DCC), though I can (almost), after years of practice (much of which was error) take a picture which is as near to the real thing as to fool an observer into thinking it is real. I say 'almost' - because one chap at Peterborough thought my pictures of Dave Shakespeare's diorama were actually of a prototype. I think that was more down to luck, and the fact that he wasn't an actual railway modeller (at least I don't think so), though his son was.

 

Speaking of the visual effect, the following two pictures show LNERBoy4468's progress with his SE Finecast C12. Actually, his name's Jack, and he's only 15, but what a good job he's made so far of this.

 

 

 

Of course I've helped him, but about half of what you see above is his work. I made sure the chassis was true and that the motor/gearbox ran sweetly, but he put the wheels on, fitted the pick-ups (with me watching) put one rod on, erected the brake gear, assisted me with the bogie and pony and soldered on one of the main sides. It looks very nice work, and it is, and it works so sweetly (even after I'd carelessly knocked the chassis onto the floor- but it landed on carpet). So sweetly, that three adult observers yesterday wished they'd made it themselves. He'll need my help less and less. Don't you think stuff like this lad is doing has equal merit to model railway empires built just with the power of cash? Like a fair bit of mine, though over a long time in fairness. Without newcomers like Jack (drop the daft user name, my lad!), then the actual personal making of model railways might have a long-term future, if only there are more of him. He's really trying (not trying me!), and won't give up. Good on you!

 

Whilst I assisted Jack, good friends Rob Davey and Richard Wilson were busy on the scenic side. I'm greatly privileged to have mates who turn up and get stuck in with the work - their reward being being fed and watered, and being bossed! I certainly don't pay them!

 

 

 

Grass verges and hedge-making were on the agenda.

 

 

Fences are springing up everywhere.

 

 

I dug out the small water course from the MDF scenic top (pad saw, Stanley knife and chisel) and Richard will complete the trickle through the culvert.

 

 

Looking down Station Road, Rob's fencing and Richard's grassing give a real sense of distance. And, in that distance I've cloud-painted the backscene in readiness for its completion in the next few days. 

 

 

Looking up Station Road, the distance looks very convincing (impossible, as previously mentioned, if I'd had less space). Gilbert Barnatt's previous grassing to the right looks particularly effective. 

Because the control panel is a bit obtrusive, it's Ian Wilson's idea to lower it - just for views such as this. The patch of ground in the left distance is where the Willoughby arms is to be sited.

 

 

 

Two views of the area around the Stationmaster's house, with so much still to do. Rob did all the fencing and hedges over the last two days. Progress indeed.

 

Edited because, on reading through this post again this morning, I'd mixed up the possessive 'its', with the contracted 'it is'. It was late when I posted it last night but I still deserve the cane!

Edited October 24, 2014 by Tony Wright