Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

I think BRM produced a couple of specials relating the history of railway modelling, the second of part two did mention many of the layout Tony was talking about. I think Bob Essery had something to do with it.

Alan,

 

You're right.

 

Bob wrote the words and I took (most of) the pictures. 

 

He's brilliant to work with.

[Clive Mortimore]

Would be really interested to see the layouts which you have found inspiring Clive .... and of course the reasons why.

 

Not only would this be of interest .... but I also find understanding the reasons behind why people appreciate something (particularly when at first I don't) broadens my own appreciation and understanding.

Derek Shore's "Avondale" (RM Nov 1970) and Cyril Freezer's layout plan "Minnories" both for their operational potential. The biggest inspiration for me is that layout now owned by Network Rail.

 

Locations like Ranelagh Bridge where the track plan inspired Pig Lane ER and Pig Lane WR. I did start Ranelagh Bridge but house move and the prospect of my own Avondale called time on it. Stratford, Tinsley, Finsbury Park can all be seen in Hanging Hill

[Tony Wright]

14 hours to build a loco, Tony... I struggle to build one in 14 weeks!!

Remember, Tom, you're flying around the World most of the time and have the responsibilities of the young(er).

 

I'm just a retired, grumpy old git!

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony- 

Having just caught up with these last few pages this morning I couldnt resist endorsement of your observations about Buckingham, PD,and this wonderful layout's influence on the hobby. And I say this from afar having never met PD but having read many of his magazine articles and one of the several Buckingham books.

 

I have had the fortune to visit Tony Gee and operate the revised Buckingham three times over the last few years when visiting UK from New Zealand. I also got to travel up from Kings Cross to Doncaster along your beloved ECML, even though I must confess to not being that familar with the various localities along it as the Virgin train sped north and south.

 

I can describe experiencing Tony's welcome to a old fella from the colonies, his hospitality and then sitting down to try and operate the layout by working through each timetable move, following the old typed out and/or handwritten amendments to the timetable, as a very memorable and enjoyable experience (....following the sequence does certainly raise challenges for those of us not familar with its operation and the various codes, signal or point numbers etc etc).

 

I look forward to seeing Tony again when I can fit this into my travel plans, and continuing my education on one of the UK's great, iconic layouts.

 

regards Andy R

Thanks Andy,

 

When you're next over, why not fix up a visit to see Little Bytham as well?

 

It's nowhere near as complicated to operate as Buckingham (though Buckingham's operation is what's so appealing about it as well). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grob1234]

Remember, Tom, you're flying around the World most of the time and have the responsibilities of the young(er).

 

I'm just a retired, grumpy old git!

 

Yes I suppose so, still, I take pride in being a bit grumpy myself sometimes - doesn't help my modelling much but I enjoy it none the less.

 

I did manage to carve out a few spare hours today to cut and fit the seats and tables for my Silver Jubilee rake. Once done I'll be able to prime the insides, fit the roofs and begin the painting process.

 

I'd also like to make a public acknowledgement of the superb service I received from London Road Models and John Redrup. When I checked my D2 kits that I recently ordered from them, I found that the buffers (usually supplied) were missing. No big deal, I knew  I would be able to email and get them sent to me. However due to being busy I hadn't had time to contact John, yet today in the post arriving unannounced were two sets of buffers and handrail knobs sent free of charge all the way to Hong Kong. Now, I suspect Jol might have had a hand in this, but to me, this type of personal service highlights just how good some of our smaller suppliers can be. A brilliant advert for the hobby, and all kudos to John for being a great exponent of customer service. Needless to say, LRM now have a customer for life. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Would be really interested to see the layouts which you have found inspiring Clive .... and of course the reasons why.

 

Not only would this be of interest .... but I also find understanding the reasons behind why people appreciate something (particularly when at first I don't) broadens my own appreciation and understanding.

 

Derek Shore's "Avondale" (RM Nov 1970) and Cyril Freezer's layout plan "Minnories" both for their operational potential. The biggest inspiration for me is that layout now owned by Network Rail.

 

Locations like Ranelagh Bridge where the track plan inspired Pig Lane ER and Pig Lane WR. I did start Ranelagh Bridge but house move and the prospect of my own Avondale called time on it. Stratford, Tinsley, Finsbury Park can all be seen in Hanging Hill

I had to go out half way through the last posting.

 

The concept for the layout I am building comes from Derek Shore's "Avondale" the track plan is inspired by the remodelled throat at Kings Cross. 

Kings Cross

 

Sheffield Exchange

 

What I have taken out (blue) and what I have added (red).

 

There has been and always be more inspiration from the real thing than from someone else's model.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Bucoops]

I'd also like to make a public acknowledgement of the superb service I received from London Road Models and John Redrup. When I checked my D2 kits that I recently ordered from them, I found that the buffers (usually supplied) were missing. No big deal, I knew  I would be able to email and get them sent to me. However due to being busy I hadn't had time to contact John, yet today in the post arriving unannounced were two sets of buffers and handrail knobs sent free of charge all the way to Hong Kong. Now, I suspect Jol might have had a hand in this, but to me, this type of personal service highlights just how good some of our smaller suppliers can be. A brilliant advert for the hobby, and all kudos to John for being a great exponent of customer service. Needless to say, LRM now have a customer for life. 

 

Couldn't agree more - I've not bought much from LRM but what I have done the service was flawless.

[thegreenhowards]

I had to go out half way through the last posting.

 

The concept for the layout I am building comes from Derek Shore's "Avondale" the track plan is inspired by the remodelled throat at Kings Cross. 

whole station scaled.JPG

Kings Cross

 

new station ideas 21-10-17.png

Sheffield Exchange

 

KX mods.jpg

What I have taken out (blue) and what I have added (red).

 

There has been and always be more inspiration from the real thing than from someone else's model.

Clive,

 

I love the plan! How far have you got? Do you have any pictures?

 

My long term plan is to model Kings Cross in 1950s guise, but that has got no further than an Anyrail track plan as yet.

 

Andy

[Lecorbusier]

Derek Shore's "Avondale" (RM Nov 1970) and Cyril Freezer's layout plan "Minnories" both for their operational potential. The biggest inspiration for me is that layout now owned by Network Rail.

 

Locations like Ranelagh Bridge where the track plan inspired Pig Lane ER and Pig Lane WR. I did start Ranelagh Bridge but house move and the prospect of my own Avondale called time on it. Stratford, Tinsley, Finsbury Park can all be seen in Hanging Hill

You are speaking to the converted as far as the real thing is concerned ...though researching and back dating to 1902 can be problematic.

 

However, there are many things in modelling which either don't scale or need to be creatively represented ... hence it is also well worth studying how others have achieved what they have. What others modellers study and admire I always find of interest, both in broadening experience and occasionally opening ones eyes to another aspect or level.

[Lecorbusier]

Yes I suppose so, still, I take pride in being a bit grumpy myself sometimes - doesn't help my modelling much but I enjoy it none the less.

 

I did manage to carve out a few spare hours today to cut and fit the seats and tables for my Silver Jubilee rake. Once done I'll be able to prime the insides, fit the roofs and begin the painting process.

 

I'd also like to make a public acknowledgement of the superb service I received from London Road Models and John Redrup. When I checked my D2 kits that I recently ordered from them, I found that the buffers (usually supplied) were missing. No big deal, I knew  I would be able to email and get them sent to me. However due to being busy I hadn't had time to contact John, yet today in the post arriving unannounced were two sets of buffers and handrail knobs sent free of charge all the way to Hong Kong. Now, I suspect Jol might have had a hand in this, but to me, this type of personal service highlights just how good some of our smaller suppliers can be. A brilliant advert for the hobby, and all kudos to John for being a great exponent of customer service. Needless to say, LRM now have a customer for life. 

I would second this. John has even supplied me with detailing parts for some other builds of mine .. he is incredibly helpful - but you do need to have a good handle on what it is you are looking for.

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive,

 

I love the plan! How far have you got? Do you have any pictures?

 

My long term plan is to model Kings Cross in 1950s guise, but that has got no further than an Anyrail track plan as yet.

 

Andy

Hi Andy

 

Baseboards have been built and I have put down most the cork. I have just come out the model room where I was laying out the points to get some sense of how it will look. As for pictures there are a few of the construction on my Sheffield Exchange link in my signature.

 

Pre-Templot days I hand drew the 1946 to 77 track plan by hand, scaling it from a large scale OS map. It sat in my filing cabinet for years, when we moved last year and I turned 60 I had to admit defeat that I was never going to build it so I said bye bye as it went off with the recycling men. 6 months ago you could have had it had I known. I had worked out how many Craven DMUs, coaches, locos etc I would need to run the 1969 working time table. From photos of the time period I placed as many trains as I could on the right platforms and then guessed where the rest went.

 

While I was drawing it one evening there was a news flash about a fire at Kings Cross Station. I felt terrible there was I drawing something for pleasure, and at the same time at the real location people were dying. That night it put my hobby in its place.

[Clive Mortimore]

You are speaking to the converted as far as the real thing is concerned ...though researching and back dating to 1902 can be problematic.

 

However, there are many things in modelling which either don't scale or need to be creatively represented ... hence it is also well worth studying how others have achieved what they have. What others modellers study and admire I always find of interest, both in broadening experience and occasionally opening ones eyes to another aspect or level.

Hi Tim

 

I am constantly learning from other modellers and experimenting with new ideas I have. I have just never looked at someone's layout be it in a magazine or at a show and gone "I want to build that." Possibly the closest has been Stoke Bank, more the concept of trains out in the country, no station, no yard or depot, just trains running. I had drawn a couple of layout plans with that as a basis before seeing Stoke. Excellent idea for a exhibition layout, somewhere to display trains in a highly scenic setting. At one of the few times my old club discussed building a layout I suggested a layout on the lines of Stoke. By the time everyone wanted to add the loco depot, the station etc because a roundy roundy without them would be boring I gave up. Two things made me laugh to myself were, when the club had a layout with station and goods yard, all most members done was run trains round and round, never shunt the yard,  and the other was a couple of club members would miss half an exhibition where they spent too long watching Stoke. 

[Tony Wright]

You are speaking to the converted as far as the real thing is concerned ...though researching and back dating to 1902 can be problematic.

 

However, there are many things in modelling which either don't scale or need to be creatively represented ... hence it is also well worth studying how others have achieved what they have. What others modellers study and admire I always find of interest, both in broadening experience and occasionally opening ones eyes to another aspect or level.

Tim,

 

I think you're right in suggesting how studying what others have done is well worth while; complementing it by studying the prototype, of course. 

 

I've already mentioned the modellers and their layouts which have been inspirational and influential to me, and, in every case, although not all the layouts were based on a prototype, all followed prototype practice. What I never did, nor would ever advocate, is to model a model (not that I'm suggesting you're advocating that).

 

Some little time ago, I was asked for (most politely, by a friend) close-up pictures of how I'd fixed the little deflectors on both sides of the chimney of an A2/2 I've just built. I politely declined, because I cannot guarantee that I've fixed them in the right place. The pictures I used for plotting their positions were prototype pictures, nothing else. As I say, model the prototype, not a model. 

 

I think it's different where I'm asked how I arrange pick-ups and the like. There is no prototype to consult for this sort of thing; neither is there for arranging a motor/gearbox assembly and so on. I'm more than happy to visually-assist in that respect, in the same way that when my friend pops over again, I'll help him solder the deflectors on if he wishes. 

 

I'm always very twitchy when folk have taken pictures and made notes of the models I've made and/or the layouts I've been involved in building. Not because I'm afraid of being rumbled (that happened years ago!), but because everything I've made has been my personal interpretation of the (a) prototype, not a replica (I don't have the skills to produce the latter). It's flattering to have my work 'copied' but any mistakes I've made (and there must be many) are then perpetuated. 

 

The other side to this is the type of person who refuses to share information or divulge techniques. I've been very fortunate in my modelling career in not having met many such pusillanimous and parsimonious souls. 

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tim

 

I am constantly learning from other modellers and experimenting with new ideas I have. I have just never looked at someone's layout be it in a magazine or at a show and gone "I want to build that." Possibly the closest has been Stoke Bank, more the concept of trains out in the country, no station, no yard or depot, just trains running. I had drawn a couple of layout plans with that as a basis before seeing Stoke. Excellent idea for a exhibition layout, somewhere to display trains in a highly scenic setting. At one of the few times my old club discussed building a layout I suggested a layout on the lines of Stoke. By the time everyone wanted to add the loco depot, the station etc because a roundy roundy without them would be boring I gave up. Two things made me laugh to myself were, when the club had a layout with station and goods yard, all most members done was run trains round and round, never shunt the yard,  and the other was a couple of club members would miss half an exhibition where they spent too long watching Stoke. 

Thanks Clive,

 

Stoke Summit keeps on coming up, and I can only conclude (from the empirical evidence of its having attended nearly 80 shows in its 14 year career on the circuit) that it was very popular. 

 

I know when WMRC was building it we weren't sure if it would 'work' (we knew it would work electrically and mechanically), but it did. 

 

I must have mentioned this before, but at one York Show a punter said to me he thought it was boring. 'All it is are trains going past - look there's one, then another, and another............' He was surprised when I shook his hand and thanked him!  

 

I assume when you saw it you were more interested in it in diesel mode? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just about everything seen above has now been sold on.

 

 

Fortunately, the diesel period we depicted finished in 1976, so punters were spared the likes of this!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Clive,

 

Stoke Summit keeps on coming up, and I can only conclude (from the empirical evidence of its having attended nearly 80 shows in its 14 year career on the circuit) that it was very popular. 

 

I know when WMRC was building it we weren't sure if it would 'work' (we knew it would work electrically and mechanically), but it did. 

 

I must have mentioned this before, but at one York Show a punter said to me he thought it was boring. 'All it is are trains going past - look there's one, then another, and another............' He was surprised when I shook his hand and thanked him!  

 

I assume when you saw it you were more interested in it in diesel mode? 

 

11 Cravens by box.jpg

 

12A D9007 Pullman.jpg

 

19 Falcon BW.jpg

 

47 on MGRs.jpg

 

55001 passing box.jpg

 

BTH Type 1.jpg

 

D201 on Down Master Cutler rear three quarter.jpg

 

D9019 0n TPO.jpg

 

Just about everything seen above has now been sold on.

 

66 by box.jpg

 

Fortunately, the diesel period we depicted finished in 1976, so punters were spared the likes of this!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

I cannot recall seeing it in full diesel mode but you know I like seeing steam as well. Stoke was a trainspotters layout with its constant running and it was fun to watch.

[Retro_man]

I built a Bec D11 kit a few years ago but converted it into a D11/2. The chassis is from Perseverance.

The kit was crude by today's standards but with a lot of detailng and effort I think it turned out well and due to its massive weight can haul just about anything.

[Lecorbusier]

Tim,

 

I think you're right in suggesting how studying what others have done is well worth while; complementing it by studying the prototype, of course. 

 

I've already mentioned the modellers and their layouts which have been inspirational and influential to me, and, in every case, although not all the layouts were based on a prototype, all followed prototype practice. What I never did, nor would ever advocate, is to model a model (not that I'm suggesting you're advocating that).

 

Some little time ago, I was asked for (most politely, by a friend) close-up pictures of how I'd fixed the little deflectors on both sides of the chimney of an A2/2 I've just built. I politely declined, because I cannot guarantee that I've fixed them in the right place. The pictures I used for plotting their positions were prototype pictures, nothing else. As I say, model the prototype, not a model. 

 

I think it's different where I'm asked how I arrange pick-ups and the like. There is no prototype to consult for this sort of thing; neither is there for arranging a motor/gearbox assembly and so on. I'm more than happy to visually-assist in that respect, in the same way that when my friend pops over again, I'll help him solder the deflectors on if he wishes. 

 

I'm always very twitchy when folk have taken pictures and made notes of the models I've made and/or the layouts I've been involved in building. Not because I'm afraid of being rumbled (that happened years ago!), but because everything I've made has been my personal interpretation of the (a) prototype, not a replica (I don't have the skills to produce the latter). It's flattering to have my work 'copied' but any mistakes I've made (and there must be many) are then perpetuated. 

 

The other side to this is the type of person who refuses to share information or divulge techniques. I've been very fortunate in my modelling career in not having met many such pusillanimous and parsimonious souls. 

Tony,

 

For me, studying the models is all about technique ... how was that achieved, what was used for that, is there something there which I might adapt to achieve what I am seeing on the prototype, can you actually make that work or will it be purely cosmetic, what techniques have you used to achieve that ballasting effect etc etc - asking questions is good, but actually quite a lot can be learnt simply by study. I wonder if the deflector question was less about the positioning, shape or size and more to do with the 'cooking' ... perhaps not in this instance.

 

Not interested in copying wholesale, but if a method can be adopted to achieve an effect that you are already looking for then I don't personally have a problem with this .... even Raphael stole from Michael Angelo having been given a private view of the Sistine ceiling, a plagiarism that was followed by assimilation. As Tolkien said, everything feeds the leaf mould of the mind.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[petrovich]

Hello Tony

 

I cannot recall seeing it in full diesel mode but you know I like seeing steam as well. Stoke was a trainspotters layout with its constant running and it was fun to watch.

Have to totally agree.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

For me, studying the models is all about technique ... how was that achieved, what was used for that, is there something there which I might adapt to achieve what I am seeing on the prototype, can you actually make that work or will it be purely cosmetic, what techniques have you used to achieve that ballasting effect etc etc - asking questions is good, but actually quite a lot can be learnt simply by study. I wonder if the deflector question was less about the positioning, shape or size and more to do with the 'cooking' ... perhaps not in this instance.

 

Not interested in copying wholesale, but if a method can be adopted to achieve an effect that you are already looking for then I don't personally have a problem with this .... even Raphael stole from Michael Angelo having been given a private view of the Sistine ceiling, a plagiarism that was followed by assimilation. As Tolkien said, everything feeds the leaf mould of the mind.

Thanks Tim,

 

Very sound points, well-explained.

 

However, may I adopt pedant mode, please? It's Michelangelo - his Christian name, to describe probably the greatest sculptor of all time and one of the greatest draughtsmen, painters and architects ever. His surname was Buonarroti. He's quoted as being 'the archetype of genius'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I built a Bec D11 kit a few years ago but converted it into a D11/2. The chassis is from Perseverance.

The kit was crude by today's standards but with a lot of detailng and effort I think it turned out well and due to its massive weight can haul just about anything.

62685a.jpg

What a wonderfully-natural model. My compliments. You've taken it much further than I'll take mine. 

 

May I ask, did you put on the little lubricator drive off the offside front crankpin, a feature different from the English D11s? 

 

It's nice to see observation of the Inverurie-style of lining the cabside. And the small BR device on the tender.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Lecorbusier]

Thanks Tim,

 

Very sound points, well-explained.

 

However, may I adopt pedant mode, please? It's Michelangelo - MICHAEL ANGELO - OH THE ENGLISH AND THEIR TERRIBLE HABIT OF ANGLICISING EVERYTHING         - his Christian name, to describe probably the greatest sculptor of all time and one of the greatest draughtsmen, painters and architects ever. His surname was Buonarroti. He's quoted as being 'the archetype of genius'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY !

Edited January 24, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[westerner]

The special BRM mag I was on about a few posts back was entitled Classic Layouts. Published in the Spring of 2001 and contained pioneering early layouts and a list of 100 Classic layouts chosen I assume by Bob Essery the author of the supplement. I can not find the first supplement on the history of the hobby. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

 He's quoted as being 'the archetype of genius'.

 

 

Nah, that was Len of the Vinci's, well know Italian engineer.

[Retro_man]

What a wonderfully-natural model. My compliments. You've taken it much further than I'll take mine. 

 

May I ask, did you put on the little lubricator drive off the offside front crankpin, a feature different from the English D11s? 

 

It's nice to see observation of the Inverurie-style of lining the cabside. And the small BR device on the tender.

 

Thank you Tony,

 

I did make the parts for the lubricator drive but in the end left it off due to clearance problems with the footplate.

 

Malcolm Graeme was the only D11/2 that I ever saw so that was my reason for building the model.

 

 

Steve

Canada

[Andy R]

Thanks Andy,

 

When you're next over, why not fix up a visit to see Little Bytham as well?

 

It's nowhere near as complicated to operate as Buckingham (though Buckingham's operation is what's so appealing about it as well).

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Many thanks for that kind offer Tony W. I will see how this can be fitted in in liaison with Tony G in the future. It would be a honour to visit two wonderful layouts in one uk visit.

 

Regards Andy R