RMweb Premium Finsbury Posted March 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2018 When I am demonstrating weathering techniques I generally get a couple of wagons half done. But - as I ask the people who are watching to have a go themselves (generally on my wagon fleet or on their own "test" piece i have had several wagons weathered by others and generally to a high standard. I try to choose demonstrators for Warley Show from those who spend more time helping others than beavering away doing their own thing. This means they must be prepared to actually do some "work" as part of helping others. Baz You were decent enough to answer my daft questions at Warley, many thanks. Kind regards, Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2018 I remember Jack Dugdale's 'Ortogo' (I assume 'aught to go'?) at the Manchester shows many, many years ago I recall a rabbit hopping in and out of hole as a train approached. Am I odd in not finding that sort of thing 'interesting'? I spent much more time watching Mr Slater making things from Plastikard (and disappearing in a cloud of fag smoke). To me (not the smoke), that was much more interesting and 'educational'. 'Gimmicky' things have never held my attention on model railways, though, I concede, they are, to some, entertaining and worth their place at shows. In carefully pedantic mode! Aught and ought are tricky ancient words. Aught has a few possible meanings, can be nothing at all or everything, depending on which part of Middle England it developed out of. Ought is a shortening of nought, therefore meaning zero, but with the suffix "to" added becomes a verb meaning should. Apologies Tony, I'm returning to the corner with my dunces hat on! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I have the passenger timetables and the WTT for the period, and there's a period of over 45 minutes in the mid-afternoon where nothing runs through. AaaaHHH, the dreaded 'Dead Hour', which occurred at different times of the day, but usually early-mid afternoon, depending on where you were spotting. A time when bored young spotters found platform barrows extremely attractive playthings...until collared and removed, shouted at, sent from the station etc... (not me of course, far too well behaved.) Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) In carefully pedantic mode! Aught and ought are tricky ancient words. Aught has a few possible meanings, can be nothing at all or everything, depending on which part of Middle England it developed out of. Ought is a shortening of nought, therefore meaning zero, but with the suffix "to" added becomes a verb meaning should. Apologies Tony, I'm returning to the corner with my dunces hat on! Mike. Thanks, as always, Mike, As I've said before, I learn something every day. And, in equally-pedantic mode, shouldn't 'dunces' hat have a possessive apostrophe? As in dunce's hat? This is something I love about this thread................... Regards, Tony. Edited March 14, 2018 by Tony Wright 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2018 Thanks, as always, Mike, As I've said before, I learn something every day. And, in equally-pedantic mode, shouldn't 'dunces' hat have a possessive apostrophe? As in dunce's hat? This is something I love about this thread................... Regards, Tony. Touche. I was thinking more along the lines of multiple hats being available! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 AaaaHHH, the dreaded 'Dead Hour', which occurred at different times of the day, but usually early-mid afternoon, depending on where you were spotting. A time when bored young spotters found platform barrows extremely attractive playthings...until collared and removed, shouted at, sent from the station etc... (not me of course, far too well behaved.) Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Thanks Peter, At Retford the 'Dead Hour' seemed to be in the early afternoon. That same time slot can't have existed a every station, though, can it? I suppose Clapham Junction was exempt from such things, and there was usually something happening at Crewe. Another busy spot I'd frequent was Trent (station for where?), where it was rare to not see a train for any length of time (in some cases in the distance). But yes, at least an hour of boredom waiting for 'Peg Donny' or 'Peg Lonny' to be shouted. Great days, though, and nobody shouts such things at Retford any more, nor 'Streak!' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Touche. I was thinking more along the lines of multiple hats being available! Mike. If it's a dunce's hat for me, Mike, make sure it's a large size! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 The eagerly-awaited SE Finecast J6 kit arrived on Monday afternoon, so, in between dodging the replacement window-fitters (the windows were replaced, not the fitters), I set-to and erected the frames, using SEF's own motor-mount and weeny Mashima. It runs beautifully. Strangely, though positions for the brake cross rods are marked on the frames, no brake hangers/blocks are included. The ones on this chassis came from my spares box. Apart from that, the etched chassis is first-class, and a very far cry from the original Nu-Cast white metal lump. I'll have it with me at the Nottingham Show over the weekend. See you there? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I was going to suggest a 'dose' of crabs, but that's a bit rude; but I've done it anyway! Still, some wonderful collective nouns - most inventive. Many thanks. Fun fact: the crabs whereof you speak are now an increasingly endangered species, because fashions in personal grooming are destroying their habitats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Touche. I was thinking more along the lines of multiple hats being available! Mike. In the event that multiple hats are available, they would be referred to as "dunces' hats"; however, 'my dunces hat', being a singular possessive, requires the apostrophe before the 's'. I work as, among other things, a professional copy editor: apologies for the uber-pedantry! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 There are two problems with portraying shunting - one of which 'Spams' has fully identified (although there can be exceptions to that and DLT's 'Bridport' is an excellent layout in terms of attracting folk who like to watch shunting, or me making a hash of the shunting). But the real problem with portraying shunting as it was really done is the near impossibility of doing so particularly in the smaller scales. The reason for this is that many types of coupling do not permit realistic loose shunting (which is how an awful lot of shunting was performed in the real world) and the smaller scale vehicles don't have the necessary mass to allow realistic loose shunting. With very free running wagons and couplings which permit loose shunting you could get a lot nearer the way things used to be done in the real world and that probably would entertain many visitors even if only to get them wondering where that 'runaway' wagon is going to halt. Loose shunting is possible with AJ couplings, a lot of electro-magnets and suitably weighted wagons. We used to do it on Clinkerford, which was basically a rather large scenic shunting plank! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) DSC_8888.JPG DSC_8890.JPG The eagerly-awaited SE Finecast J6 kit arrived on Monday afternoon, so, in between dodging the replacement window-fitters (the windows were replaced, not the fitters), I set-to and erected the frames, using SEF's own motor-mount and weeny Mashima. It runs beautifully. Strangely, though positions for the brake cross rods are marked on the frames, no brake hangers/blocks are included. The ones on this chassis came from my spares box. Apart from that, the etched chassis is first-class, and a very far cry from the original Nu-Cast white metal lump. I'll have it with me at the Nottingham Show over the weekend. See you there? It seems a bit of a shame that no brake gear is supplied. Any sign of the rather prominent and substantial front guard irons, or do you have to create those for yourself? Did you have thoughts at one stage of perhaps driving the rear axle? I see no evidence of bearing protrusion inside the frames at the rear, suggesting that the bearings may have been filed back to create clearance for a gearbox. I notice that the rods appear to be one-piece throughout their length too. Although I've successfully built chassis many times with jointed rods (overlapping on the crankpins) and drive on an outer axle, I'm having so much trouble at present getting free running on a J6 chassis with jointed rods and rear-axle drive that I'm beginning to think that rigid rods might be a better answer, eliminating unwanted or uneven amounts of "cumulative slop"! I'm not that impressed with the (non) concentricity of the recent-manufacture Gibson wheels that I'm using either..... Edited March 14, 2018 by gr.king 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Another busy spot I'd frequent was Trent (station for where?), where it was rare to not see a train for any length of time (in some cases in the distance). But yes, at least an hour of boredom waiting for 'Peg Donny' or 'Peg Lonny' to be shouted. Great days, though, and nobody shouts such things at Retford any more, nor 'Streak!' Springs Branch Wigan always seemed busy, the west coast main line, trains on Liverpool / Manchester lines, behind was the Lancashire Union line to Whelley loop and the varous yards and connecting lines etc. Here was the shed outlet with something always coming / going. And what about these for a fine set of (northbound) pegs ? View north from Taylor's Lane bridge around 1965, before work started on the new diesel depot. My dad took this photo. A very tatty, grotty location but a thrill a minute back in the 60's !! Brit15 Edited March 14, 2018 by APOLLO 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betehumane Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 DSC_8888.JPG DSC_8890.JPG The eagerly-awaited SE Finecast J6 kit arrived on Monday afternoon, so, in between dodging the replacement window-fitters (the windows were replaced, not the fitters), I set-to and erected the frames, using SEF's own motor-mount and weeny Mashima. It runs beautifully. Strangely, though positions for the brake cross rods are marked on the frames, no brake hangers/blocks are included. The ones on this chassis came from my spares box. Apart from that, the etched chassis is first-class, and a very far cry from the original Nu-Cast white metal lump. I'll have it with me at the Nottingham Show over the weekend. See you there? Hi Tony, You've probably covered it before, but would it be possible to walk through how you've applied the live chassis technique here? I'm trying to trace it through in the photos but keep coming up with a short! Presumably the wheels on the "lower" side (bottom pic) are all non-insulated and power the frame. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it also looks like the bus bar off the pickups touches the front axle? Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 It seems a bit of a shame that no brake gear is supplied. Any sign of the rather prominent and substantial front guard irons, or do you have to create those for yourself? Did you have thoughts at one stage of perhaps driving the rear axle? I see no evidence of bearing protrusion inside the frames at the rear, suggesting that the bearings may have been filed back to create clearance for a gearbox. I notice that the rods appear to be one-piece throughout their length too. Although I've successfully built chassis many time with jointed rods (overlapping on the crankpins) and drive on an outer axle, I'm having so much trouble at present getting free running on a J6 chassis with jointed rods and rear-axle drive that I'm beginning to think that rigid rods might be a better answer, eliminating unwanted or uneven amounts of "cumulative slop"! I'm not that impressed with the (non) concentricity of the recent-manufacture Gibson wheel that I'm using either..... Did you have to drill out the crankpin holes in the AGW wheels or were the already moulded in? I've never been happy with drilling critical holes in plastic as very small jobbers drills tend to wander and the crank pin radius can be affected. If several differ by .2 mm or more you may get build up of misalignments in several planes that is not easy to resolve. The drill bit angles for drilling plastics are quite different to metals (even these vary), much less "aggressive" but I don't know where to get them. A CP drilling jig , to hold the drill in the right place and keep the drill bit vertical is one solution, but you have to go to the trouble of making it. Tony' will probably suggest using Markits wheels to avoid a possible problem Jol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2018 Fun fact: the crabs whereof you speak are now an increasingly endangered species, because fashions in personal grooming are destroying their habitats! Patient: Doctor, do lobsters walk forwards or sideways? Doctor: Forwards of course. Patient: Thank goodness for that. I thought I had crabs. I thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Did you have to drill out the crankpin holes in the AGW wheels or were the already moulded in? I've never been happy with drilling critical holes in plastic as very small jobbers drills tend to wander and the crank pin radius can be affected. If several differ by .2 mm or more you may get build up of misalignments in several planes that is not easy to resolve. The drill bit angles for drilling plastics are quite different to metals (even these vary), much less "aggressive" but I don't know where to get them. A CP drilling jig , to hold the drill in the right place and keep the drill bit vertical is one solution, but you have to go to the trouble of making it. Tony' will probably suggest using Markits wheels to avoid a possible problem Jol They were all pre-drilled, so I hope they match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Springs Branch Wigan always seemed busy, - A very tatty, grotty location but a thrill a minute back in the 60's !! Brit15 Many a happy hour spent in that 'shed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 After completely ignoring that recalcitrant J6 chassis of mine for several days, making it feel thoroughly ashamed and unwanted, I've relented this afternoon and with clearer mind and even temperament I seem to have solved the problem, via some incredibly fine tweaking of the quartering of the middle and leading wheelsets. All I need to do now is build the rest of the loco, plus the tender, and hope that the quartering never slips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 It seems a bit of a shame that no brake gear is supplied. Any sign of the rather prominent and substantial front guard irons, or do you have to create those for yourself? Did you have thoughts at one stage of perhaps driving the rear axle? I see no evidence of bearing protrusion inside the frames at the rear, suggesting that the bearings may have been filed back to create clearance for a gearbox. I notice that the rods appear to be one-piece throughout their length too. Although I've successfully built chassis many times with jointed rods (overlapping on the crankpins) and drive on an outer axle, I'm having so much trouble at present getting free running on a J6 chassis with jointed rods and rear-axle drive that I'm beginning to think that rigid rods might be a better answer, eliminating unwanted or uneven amounts of "cumulative slop"! I'm not that impressed with the (non) concentricity of the recent-manufacture Gibson wheels that I'm using either..... Graeme, I'll be suggesting to Dave Ellis that he provide a fret of brake shoes in the kit. I've actually got some plastic ones which would fit, and also the resin ones you gave me. The front guard irons are supplied, and are yet to be fitted. I thought of driving off the rear axle, but I've always found (with rigid or jointed rods) that the drive is more balanced in an 0-6-0 off the centre axle. The gear wheel might just be visible, so I'll see. The motor can be easily turned-round. The rods are laminated and solid. Obviously, being Markits (though a bit expensive these days) the wheels are true-round and run perfectly. I've got two SEF J6s to build, because alternative parts for the 521 Series are also included (though there is some modification needed). Seeing how I get on, I'll bring this one to Ally Pally in ten days time, hopefully completed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Hi Tony, You've probably covered it before, but would it be possible to walk through how you've applied the live chassis technique here? I'm trying to trace it through in the photos but keep coming up with a short! Presumably the wheels on the "lower" side (bottom pic) are all non-insulated and power the frame. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it also looks like the bus bar off the pickups touches the front axle? Thanks, Andy Andy, Glad to help. The nearer wheels in the second picture, are, as you surmise, live. It is an optical illusion, but the 'service' extension to the pick-ups (for attaching a crocodile clip for cleaning, etc) isn't touching the front axle; it's at least a mil' clear of it. The brake pull-rods (which I've made up) are clear of the pick-ups as well. It's all a bit tight, but, properly-adjusted, there are no problems. I always make my chassis live, and the tender chassis live. I don't suffer the encumbrances of DCC and always give myself enough clearance between the live bits and the insulated bits. It works for me, and that's all I ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Tony' will probably suggest using Markits wheels to avoid a possible problem Jol You've read my mind, Jol, I honestly cannot see the point, especially in OO and EM, in faffing around with non-concentric, plastic-centred wheels, which have to be jig or eye-quartered, which then have to be pinned (for true-security, to prevent the wheels subsequently moving on the axles), yet still with the risk of the tyres coming off. The above might sound a bit prejudiced, but I have tried friction-fit wheels with no real success. If I put a big engine I've made on to a big train, where it might well slip a little (entirely prototypically) on starting, the last thing I want to see is the loco nodding along, or the wheels rotating on their axles, bending the rods, or tyres falling off. It has happened, hence my comments, but never with Romford/Markits wheels. In your chosen gauge, then friction-fit wheels would appear to be the only drivers to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted March 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2018 If only Markits wheels were readily available 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 ....and at the same price (relative to other items) that was typical for them 20 years ago! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 If only Markits wheels were readily available Are they not? I phone up Mark Arscott regularly and order wheels from him. They arrive within a fortnight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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