Wright writes.....

[MJI]

18 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Though we'd probably be on son of APT by now, or maybe even grandson. IIRC, BR were instructed by HM Govt to wind up the project and sell the intellectual rights. Some at least of the APT patents I believe were bought by Fiat, so ETR300 (?), which the Pendolino is derived from, is to some extent a descendant of APT.

 

I think it was disgusting, and I thought they went to Sweden.

 

The Pendothingy is screw jack and transponder. APT sensed the corner and hydraulics.

 

Tilting worked perfectly the media got over drunk and ill.

[Brit70053]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

Is Humbrol 29 described as 'leather'? I certainly use a lot of it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

       Hello Tony,

 

                           Humbrol paint No 29 is described as 'Matt Dark Earth' on their colour chart, 'Matt Leather' is No. 62.

 

Probable equivalents in the Revel range were Numbers 32182 and 32184 respectively.

 

                             Regards,

 

                                               John

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Brit70053
punctuation correction

[jrg1]

15 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The APT is very impressive. Not my era or region but I did travel on it, during the short period in revenue service. I still cannot believe BR just cut them up. They could have locked the tilt and ran as a conventional train. My fellow and enthusiasts, at the time, felt it could have been used as dedicated sets as a new Manchester/Liverpool Pullman replacement.

 

Thanks for the video

 

Mike Wiltshire

Couldn't agree more-what a waste scrapping them.  I also thought the same regarding the Midland and Western Pullmans.

What was wrong with running them as a conventional loco-hauled train?

BR preferred to hide it's problems in the scrapyard

[Northmoor]

14 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

Couldn't agree more-what a waste scrapping them.  I also thought the same regarding the Midland and Western Pullmans.

What was wrong with running them as a conventional loco-hauled train?

BR preferred to hide it's problems in the scrapyard

The Midland & Western Pullman sets had quite severe ride problems which would have required expensive additional maintenance to keep them in service.  Small fleets of non-standard vehicles cost a disproportionate amount to maintain and with the decline in premium travel in the early '70s, withdrawal was inevitable.  It's the same reason that sleeper services are hard to run economically anywhere in the UK; you can only do a limited number of journeys (usually one single) in a day whereas conventional carriages can be filled on multiple return trips.  Pullmans were only really full on the run into London in the morning and back in the evening, the rest of the day they stood idle or ran far too empty.

[rodent279]

The APT probably deserves a thread in it's own right, if there isn't one already.

In fact, it was debugged, and ran quite successfully in service as a daily relief to Glasgow & back, running I assume in normal class 87 times, for a couple of seasons.

I'm pretty sure the govt of the day wanted BR to bury the APT once and for all.

There are a couple of RMWeb inhabitants who were involved in the APT, so I'll leave it at that.

For me, it is still one on the most stylish trains to have graced the mainline in the modern era.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

Is Humbrol 29 described as 'leather'? I certainly use a lot of it.

 

However, I've tried what you describe and I've found the paint never really dries; not without a thorough stirring first. This is especially true, in my experience, for Humbrol enamel paints.

 

I don't know if, down the years, the paint recipes have changed, but several Humbrol colours I've used of late (especially No. 85) have a tendency to be reluctant to dry properly. Am I alone in this dilemma?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Matt Dark Earth, Tony. I've a large No 2 Size (50ml?) tin, bought years ago (the label on the lid says 50p), that doesn't get used for anything else so you could be right regarding the formulation.

 

I literally never stir or shake it at all, so all the pigment has sunk to the bottom of the tin and the very thin liquid at the top is what I use.

[queensquare]

I had a visit from some of the 2mm D&E group last weekend and amongst the highlights were Steve Nichols prototype HST using heavily reworked Dapol parts and the 8 car western pullman which is a modified and repainted Farish model. They looked superb running over the S&D.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

[MJI]

1 hour ago, jrg1 said:

Couldn't agree more-what a waste scrapping them.  I also thought the same regarding the Midland and Western Pullmans.

What was wrong with running them as a conventional loco-hauled train?

BR preferred to hide it's problems in the scrapyard

 

Would cost too much, not that usable.

 

A good quick fix would have been B4ing.

 

But soon after why would you travel on those rather than a brand new much faster more comfortable train.

 

Now that train was world beating.

[robertcwp]

The 8-car Blue Pullmans only seated 120 second and 108 first class, so not really enough second class for many trains. After downgrading of some accommodation, the two 6-car sets together only seated 144 first and 120 second. They were non-standard and could only do 90 mph. They required lots of crew and at the time of withdrawal were in need of heavy overhauls. The 6-car sets had been split up in 1971 and mixed in with the 8-car sets. The new Mark 2e/f stock was entering service when they were withdrawn and offered a better ride as well as more accommodation overall. A standard WR Mark 2e/f set of the time seated 126 first and 320 second.

Edited July 28, 2023 by robertcwp
Typo.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

The 8-car Blue Pullmans only seated 120 second and 108 first class, so not really enough second class for many trains. After downgrading of some accommodation, the two 6-car sets together only seated 144 first and 120 second. They were non-standard and could only do 90 mph. They required lots of crew and at the time of withdrawal were in need of heavy overhauls. The 6-car sets had been split up in 1971 and mixed in with the 8-car sets. The new Mark 2e/f stock was entering service when they were withdrawn and offered a better ride as well as more accommodation overall. A standard WR Mark 2e/f set of the time seated 108 first and 320 second.

That set would also require a 2D

 

108 is 2 FK or FO and a BFK

[robertcwp]

8 hours ago, MJI said:

That set would also require a 2D

 

108 is 2 FK or FO and a BFK

Good point, I meant 126 first not 108, ie 3xFO. The sets were usually BG, 5 TSO, RB, 3 FO. The WR did not have any 2d BFKs until the late 1970s or early 1980s, I forget when exactly.

 

47478_Slough_1A42_0945-WSM-Pad_26-9-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[VIA185]

Slough GWR goods shed. Now there's a more interesting subject than a Brush-hauled express. My local main line station and a regular viewpoint over what had been the Slough MPD. All gone now and covered in 25kV 'knitting'. Can't bring myself to go back since they wired it but have travelled on one of those 'flying cucumbers' outside the wired area. (CJL)

[LNER4479]

20 hours ago, Brit70053 said:

Humbrol paint No 29 is described as 'Matt Dark Earth' on their colour chart

One of my ‘go to’ colours, together with M67 Dark Grey and M70 Brick Red. I use M29 for painting rail sides.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

Good point, I meant 126 first not 108, ie 3xFO. The sets were usually BG, 5 TSO, RB, 3 FO. The WR did not have any 2d BFKs until the late 1970s or early 1980s, I forget when exactly.

 

47478_Slough_1A42_0945-WSM-Pad_26-9-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

I know they had 4 in the 80s including 14152 and 14159.

 

Often found in pairs, in middle of set.

[rodent279]

19 minutes ago, MJI said:

Often found in pairs, in middle of set.

Is that so they could spilt the rakes into 2 half rakes?

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The 8-car Blue Pullmans only seated 120 second and 108 first class, so not really enough second class for many trains. After downgrading of some accommodation, the two 6-car sets together only seated 144 first and 120 second. They were non-standard and could only do 90 mph. They required lots of crew and at the time of withdrawal were in need of heavy overhauls. The 6-car sets had been split up in 1971 and mixed in with the 8-car sets. The new Mark 2e/f stock was entering service when they were withdrawn and offered a better ride as well as more accommodation overall. A standard WR Mark 2e/f set of the time seated 126 first and 320 second.

Good morning Robert,

 

I believe one of the Blue Pullman sets was trialled on the ECML (as a possible substitute for loco-hauled Pullman cars?), but the notion was never taken up because (as you state) the maximum speed was only 90 mph, when the Deltics were going at least ten mph faster, and accelerating more quickly as well. 

 

I've had a shortened set running on Little Bytham..........

 

 

When the train pack was first released, and, believe it or not, running in DCC-mode.

 

 

It was very-attractively packaged.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

22 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Hi William I did this a long time ago and don’t have a wiring diagram, but I do seem to remember ringing up Gaugemaster who were very helpful.
 

I’ve had a look at the point, and it seems that I have wired it with track buzz feeds from the toe end and then connected the frog wire from each GM autofrog to the two frogs farthest from the toe. The other frog doesn’t get any wire and seems to rely on the point blades. I don’t normally rely on the blades making contact and no doubt I will get a reprimand from sir! But in this case it’s in a yard where the only locos shunting have good stayalives, so there was no need to worry about perfect connectivity as long as I don’t have a short.

 

The autofrog work by detecting a short circuit and switching very quickly (before the system shuts down!), so it doesn’t need to know which polarity to set - it just senses it.

 

The autofrog will not switch on DC but if it’s set correctly for the road you can run a DC loco over it.

 

I hope that’s helpful

 

Andy

Good morning Andy,

 

I don't know about a 'reprimand'; if it works, then that's fine, but I know nothing about 'stay-alives', 'frog juicers' or any other items in the paraphernalia associated with DCC mentioned on here of late.

 

I firmly believe in the efficacy of live frogs, and not relying on the switch-rails to transfer electricity on any pointwork. The Code 100 Peco points I used in Bytham's fiddle yards were (ostensibly) 'live-frog', but the wiring suggested seemed, at best, a half-way-house to me. 

 

Thus, I modified them............

 

 

By removing some webbing and permanently bonding (with 30Amp fusewire) the switch rails to the stock rails.

 

 

Then gapping the switch rails, so as to completely isolate the frog.

 

 

Then changing the frog's polarity with micro-switches. 

 

The result is completely-free-from-stuttering-running through the pointwork, using a system I understand.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[robertcwp]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Robert,

 

I believe one of the Blue Pullman sets was trialled on the ECML (as a possible substitute for loco-hauled Pullman cars?), but the notion was never taken up because (as you state) the maximum speed was only 90 mph, when the Deltics were going at least ten mph faster, and accelerating more quickly as well. 

 

I've had a shortened set running on Little Bytham..........

 

 

When the train pack was first released, and, believe it or not, running in DCC-mode.

 

 

It was very-attractively packaged.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Not a shortened set but one of the Midland Pullman 6-car, all first class sets. One 6-car set was tried out on the East Coast as you note and the are photos and footage of it.

[MJI]

43 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Is that so they could spilt the rakes into 2 half rakes?

 

Not sure as they were still 12 to 15 long at Plymouth, seen at Exeter as well.

 

Seen in 2ABC version as well.

 

Some had GUVs on as well.

[robertcwp]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andy,

 

I don't know about a 'reprimand'; if it works, then that's fine, but I know nothing about 'stay-alives', 'frog juicers' or any other items in the paraphernalia associated with DCC mentioned on here of late.

 

I firmly believe in the efficacy of live frogs, and not relying on the switch-rails to transfer electricity on any pointwork. The Code 100 Peco points I used in Bytham's fiddle yards were (ostensibly) 'live-frog', but the wiring suggested seemed, at best, a half-way-house to me. 

 

Thus, I modified them............

 

 

By removing some webbing and permanently bonding (with 30Amp fusewire) the switch rails to the stock rails.

 

 

Then gapping the switch rails, so as to completely isolate the frog.

 

 

Then changing the frog's polarity with micro-switches. 

 

The result is completely-free-from-stuttering-running through the pointwork, using a system I understand.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

The newer Peco points don't need the rails cutting as they are made with a break which is bridged underneath, so you cut that instead. The link between stock rail and blade still needs to be made. The bullhead points dispense with this arrangement and are live both ways. The frog is dead but is metal and can be wired to a switch or, for DCC, a frog juicer.

 

What micro switches do you use, please?

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

I know they had 4 in the 80s including 14152 and 14159.

 

Often found in pairs, in middle of set.

Yes, four BFK 2d are shown as WR in the 1980 RCTS book. 

[coronach]

22 hours ago, MJI said:

 

I think it was disgusting, and I thought they went to Sweden.

 

The Pendothingy is screw jack and transponder. APT sensed the corner and hydraulics.

 

Tilting worked perfectly the media got over drunk and ill.

My understanding is that the sickness feeling was due to the tilt fully compensating for the effect of curving on the body.   Pendolinos are designed so that passengers feel the train curving so that the brain isn’t confused by the eye. It would have been interesting to see how adjusting the tilt on the APT would have improved comfort 

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

Is that so they could spilt the rakes into 2 half rakes?

From the end of the 1960s, the WR went through something of a phase of having brakes coupled together in the middle, most notably on Penzance trains using a pair of BSO 2c. I suspect it was mainly for convenience of loading and unloading the vans but may also have helped at short platforms. A pair of BFKs would have been less common then although a single BFK or a BFK and BSO might also appear in the middle.

 

D1034_47_Lostwithiel_9-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Geep7]

2 hours ago, VIA185 said:

All gone now and covered in 25kV 'knitting'. Can't bring myself to go back since they wired it but have travelled on one of those 'flying cucumbers' outside the wired area. (CJL)

I did a trip back from London to Reading last Friday, probably for the first time since the line was electrified all the way to Reading, and I was shocked by how much has changed. I obviously knew OOC had gone, but I was still surprised by how different it looked. I didn't even recognise Southall as we went flying through, it's changed so much. Such is progress I guess.

[robertcwp]

1 minute ago, Geep7 said:

I did a trip back from London to Reading last Friday, probably for the first time since the line was electrified all the way to Reading, and I was shocked by how much has changed. I obviously knew OOC had gone, but I was still surprised by how different it looked. I didn't even recognise Southall as we went flying through, it's changed so much. Such is progress I guess.

Apart from two generations of station building on the south side, Reading is unrecognisable compared to how it was 20 or so years ago.

47816_Reading-_28-8-01 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr