Wright writes.....

[LNER4479]

40 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

, they were always Mickeys snd Semis, although our “coffee pots” were LNW 0-8-0s. I am (and was) aware that the enginemen had their own nicknames and rarely understood ours.

I have to say (although I'm too tender in years to have been a true steam loco spotter) that I detest the nickname 'Semi' for Stanier's most magnificent creation with a passion. However, you're right about enginemen nicknames. To the Crewe and Carlisle men (at least), they were affectionately known as 'Big Lizzies'. A most glorious epithet as it both acknowledges the legendary exploits of 6201 whilst recognising that the 'Princess Coronations' were altogether bigger and better machines.

 

No, to me - and me equally enthusiastic father (who WAS a steam trainspotter, at the southern end of the WCML) - they will always be simply 'Duchesses'. And being as that wasn't actually the official class designation, that's a good enough nickname. Anyone coming to Doncaster at the weekend can enjoy the sight of at least seven DUCHESSES in action on the big northern hill 

 

Semis? Never! Yeuch😡

[nsl714]

Tony and All,

 

I've started in on the DJH A1 mentioned earlier. So far, being careful in chassis assembly has resulted in one that is square and free rolling up to the stage of adding the motor and valve gear. The boiler and firebox here are not secured to the footplate yet, but the prospect of making the engine look more complete was much too tempting for the photo, so they are sat in place.

 

 

However, I am a bit perplexed at further assembly (hence my sharing here). The diagrams in the instructions outline how the pony, bogie, and footplate are to be secured to the chassis by screws. Fair enough. However, I can't help but notice there's a bit of overlap, and securing the bogie/pony to chassis will not allow easy access to the fixing points for the footplate and vise versa if the footplate with boiler is attached to the frame. Is there a typical work around for this arrangement that differs from the instructions?

 

 

One thing I've contemplated and made arrangement for is an access hole through both the bogie and pony for a screwdriver. This seems to be the trick for the pony, but the bogie is still going to be much too constrained to get the screw in place I fear.

 

 

 

Any suggestions for deviations or other tweaks to make this arrangement more workable would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,
Zach

[Michael Edge]

I would work on the basis of taking the trucks off to get at the body fixing screws - but I never put bogies on like this anyway, I always change them to a centre pivot now. The DJH practice of putting the screws on top with nuts below is a nuisance for anyone who doesn't have a set of box spanners as well but if you are going to leave it this way round you must lock the screws in the spacers.

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Black 8 is a nonsensical modernism, there couldn’t have been such a thing since there were no red 8s - LMS power classification only went up to 7.

Since I come from a little way north of the Mersey I concur with Tony about loco names, they were always Mickeys snd Semis, although our “coffee pots” were LNW 0-8-0s. I am (and was) aware that the enginemen had their own nicknames and rarely understood ours.

Good morning Mike,

 

What did you call the Fowler 0-8-0s? In Chester, they were known as 'Austin Sevens', though they weren't that common. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

I have to say (although I'm too tender in years to have been a true steam loco spotter) that I detest the nickname 'Semi' for Stanier's most magnificent creation with a passion. However, you're right about enginemen nicknames. To the Crewe and Carlisle men (at least), they were affectionately known as 'Big Lizzies'. A most glorious epithet as it both acknowledges the legendary exploits of 6201 whilst recognising that the 'Princess Coronations' were altogether bigger and better machines.

 

No, to me - and me equally enthusiastic father (who WAS a steam trainspotter, at the southern end of the WCML) - they will always be simply 'Duchesses'. And being as that wasn't actually the official class designation, that's a good enough nickname. Anyone coming to Doncaster at the weekend can enjoy the sight of at least seven DUCHESSES in action on the big northern hill 

 

Semis? Never! Yeuch😡

Good morning Graham,

 

As you admit, you're much too young to have been standing on, say, Crewe Station when one of the 'Big-Uns' (Allan Baker's description) came into view. 'Semi'!, 'Semi'! would be the universal cry. Though proclaimed at the tops of 'skoolboy' voices, it was always with reverence. 

 

'Semi'? Always. One had to be there to know why!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[bbishop]

For a Southern enthusiast, a Mickey Mouse was an Ivatt 2MT tank.  The Bulleid Q1 class were Charlies; unless you were on the footplate, when an adjective would be included, given their lack of brake power.

[Michael Edge]

19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Mike,

 

What did you call the Fowler 0-8-0s? In Chester, they were known as 'Austin Sevens', though they weren't that common. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I think they were Austin Sevens but they weren't nearly as common as the LNW ones.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, nsl714 said:

Tony and All,

 

I've started in on the DJH A1 mentioned earlier. So far, being careful in chassis assembly has resulted in one that is square and free rolling up to the stage of adding the motor and valve gear. The boiler and firebox here are not secured to the footplate yet, but the prospect of making the engine look more complete was much too tempting for the photo, so they are sat in place.

 

 

However, I am a bit perplexed at further assembly (hence my sharing here). The diagrams in the instructions outline how the pony, bogie, and footplate are to be secured to the chassis by screws. Fair enough. However, I can't help but notice there's a bit of overlap, and securing the bogie/pony to chassis will not allow easy access to the fixing points for the footplate and vise versa if the footplate with boiler is attached to the frame. Is there a typical work around for this arrangement that differs from the instructions?

 

 

One thing I've contemplated and made arrangement for is an access hole through both the bogie and pony for a screwdriver. This seems to be the trick for the pony, but the bogie is still going to be much too constrained to get the screw in place I fear.

 

 

 

Any suggestions for deviations or other tweaks to make this arrangement more workable would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,
Zach

Good morning Zak,

 

DJH's arrangement (and they're not alone) for fixing bogies and ponies is completely the wrong way round in my opinion. 

 

As Mike Edge points out, a box spanner is needed to fix the nut, and then what prevents it from working loose in service? 

 

My method is to solder a nut securely to the top of the relevant spacer, and then tap through the spacer's hole 8BA (I think DJH's nuts and screws are metric, so I don't use them). 

 

The bogie/pony can then be secured/retained by a shouldered screw; only a small screwdriver (which must be in every modellers' toolbox) being required.

 

The following shots should help...............

 

 

The spacer, with the nut soldered on top, ready-tapped. 

 

Another thing, when I'm happy that my frames are square, I solder the spacers in solid (before I solder the nut in place).

 

 

The bogie-retaining shouldered screw is a commercial product, and the pony-retaining one is one I made; no more than a small piece of brass tube soldered to an 8BA screw. 

 

 

I mentioned recently my buying of lots of Jamieson spacers. I also acquired lots of shouldered screws at the same time, bought from EAMES. 

 

A shouldered screw can be bought now from Markits, I believe. 

 

 

A bogie held securely in place.

 

 

And the arrangement underneath a DJH A3 under construction. 

 

To get the body off, one just releases the two shouldered screws, revealing the body-fixing screws, and one is away. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not necessarily - I have a fair few STILL giving good service.

 

CJI.

Good morning John,

 

I'm delighted. 

 

How did you prevent the bearings from revolving in the Wills cast metal frames? My memory tells me they were just crimped in.

 

How did you fix brakes to them?

 

How did you get a more-modern motor/gearbox into the triangular 'emptiness' caused by the design's acceptance of an XO4 motor or its derivatives? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[APOLLO]

I think there were few (if any) nationally "approved" locomotive nicknames for steam, diesel or electric locomotives.

 

Here around Wigan (& Springs Branch) since I started spotting (mid 60's on the WCML) Black 5's & 8's was commonly used. Black 5's were also called Mickeys, 2-6-0 Tender locos Mickey Mouse.  Jub (Jubilee), Dub Dee (WD), Mickey, Jinty, etc.

 

All standards were known as standards, except 9F's were "Nine Two'ers" and Brits were, of course, our magnificent Britannias !! Nowt much else as the Semis, Princesses, Citys and Pats (Patriots) had all gone just before.

 

On the diesel scene we had mainly Big D's (EE Type 4) a Peak now and again and ever more and more "Brush 4's", shunters, all types, just shunter and every DMU was a bug box, never even took their numbers !! "Sulzers" (Type 2's) were rarely seen until the rat infestation of Springs Branch started in late 1967 when 8F closed to steam.

 

All these shots off the same roll of 35mm, Taylors Lane, Springs Branch Wigan around 1966/7. A common hour or so's trainspotting. (Can I have another roll of film please Dad ?)

 

Southbound on the Up Fast - Brush 4 on oil tanks.

 

 

Passed by northbound Big D on a parcels. New diesel depot nears completion. Those signals were noisy !!

 

 

Turn around and a Black 5 slogs up the bank at Fir Tree House Jcn, on coal empties and is about to cross over the WCML

 

 

Sign of things to come - A rare rat shoves a brake van up the bank, Ince Moss Jcn and the Liverpool line in the background. Signalman was quick with the levers !!

 

 

A black 8 (or 5 ?) heads on the Manchester bound fast line past Crompton Sidings box (shed inlet roads to left). Probably off towards the leigh area collieries.

 

 

Unidentified Brit northbound under the Lancashire Union line. (No show without Punch !!!)

Up top the far signals were on the Manchester line and the near ones for trains coming off the Whelley Loop (WCML Wigan loop). Complicated area indeed.

 

 

A black un on shed line, wonder what's due on the Down Fast ?

 

 

No, not a Streak or a Spam Can, Why, a mucky owd Black 5 on parcels of course !!!!

 

 

Up on top again, a nine two'er with steam a plenty rolls down towards Ince Moss with a Long Meg to Widnes Anhydrite train. A last "long drag" up to Garswood in a minute or so, then an easy last leg for the fireman down to Widnes.

 

A mucky but vibrant place back then, action 24/7. We have lost so, so much, but I suppose we are lucky in that 8F is now a swish new EMU stabling point.

 

Brit15

[Michael Edge]

26 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Zak,

 

DJH's arrangement (and they're not alone) for fixing bogies and ponies is completely the wrong way round in my opinion. 

 

As Mike Edge points out, a box spanner is needed to fix the nut, and then what prevents it from working loose in service? 

 

 

 

If you do keep the nuts on the bottom it's very easy to stop them working loose, simply spoil the thread a little way below the rotating part with side cutting pliers. The nut will then lock on to this part of the thread before it locks the bogie arm or pony truck. I use the same method for coach bogies having seen far too many with springs inserted between the bogie and the underframe, this does indeed keep the nut on but it also inhibits the bogie from rocking as it it should. I still have dozens (possibly hundreds) of these to remove from coaches running on Carlisle.

[Dunsignalling]

Back in their early days, the Brush Type 4/Class 47 earned the epithet "Duff" (used as a noun) among my generation of spotters. It stuck even after the initial issues were overcome.

 

It presumably endured, too, as I've heard the P/P fitted 47/7s referred to as "Shove Duffs". 

 

John

 

PS. my much younger box colleague, Keith, who remains a fan and basher, hates them being referred to thus.....

Edited February 8 by Dunsignalling
PS

[St Enodoc]

19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Back in their early days, the Brush Type 4/Class 47 earned the epithet "Duff" (used as a noun) among my generation of spotters. It stuck even after the initial issues were overcome.

 

It presumably endured, too, as I've heard the P/P fitted 47/7s referred to as "Shove Duffs". 

 

John

At Toton, and probably at other depots as well, Brush Type 4s were known as "four-and-a-halves" to distinguish them from the Sulzer Type 4s.

 

(Edit: as all these types had Sulzer engines, the above doesn't really make sense. What I meant, using TOPS terminology, is that the 47s were "four-and-a-halves" to distinguish them from the 44s, 45s and 46s).

Edited February 9 by St Enodoc
clarification

[cctransuk]

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

I'm delighted. 

 

How did you prevent the bearings from revolving in the Wills cast metal frames? My memory tells me they were just crimped in.

 

How did you fix brakes to them?

 

How did you get a more-modern motor/gearbox into the triangular 'emptiness' caused by the design's acceptance of an XO4 motor or its derivatives? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Bearings? I don't recall Keyser et al kits having such a sophistication as bearings - other than the whitemetal, which is an excellent bearing material.

 

Brakes - completely detachable, with stub hanger wires engaging in holes drilled into the cast block.

 

The 'more modern' options simply didn't exist then - five pole versions of the X04 did exist, and work (still) very well indeed.

 

John Isherwood.

[APOLLO]

A few more around Springs Branch from around the same time if you don't mind. 

 

Brit 33 "Charlie Dick" backs onto the coaling plant. I once could rhyme off every Brit name - had to look 33 up in my Summer 1960 combined volume !!

 

 

And received some of Wigan's finest coal dust !!

 

 

Invader on the Branch !!

 

 

Banger Blue cometh - southbound test train !!!!

 

 

Oliver heads north

 

 

A thingy and a mickey mouse

 

 

Northbound Brit, Southbound Brush 4. The big building to the left was the locomen's overnight lodging. An ideal location for a sound nights sleep !!

 

 

Lots of steam - is that a Brush 4 far left, your new house is nearly ready !!

 

 

Right hand locos had interesting front number styles

 

 

This is what we 14 year olds got up to back then !!!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

Edited February 8 by APOLLO

[31A]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

A shouldered screw can be bought now from Markits, I believe. 

 

Also available from Wizard Models (I bought some recently) - 8BA.  Easier to order from him!

[Kirby Uncoupler]

The thicker one-piece whitemetal loco chassis were okay in their day (e.g. Wills in the clear cellophane bags), try bending a cold Mars bar, but the thinner cast chassis that you assembled (Stephen Poole, McGowan), were a disaster. You had to avoid doing the body screws up too tight,  because they could bend the chassis up, down, sideways, or twist, though one saving grace, was you could always bend them back again! Don't forget, whitemetal was a bearing surface on the real thing, so on a model frame, could be regarded as a ready-fitted bearing.

    Regarding bogie nuts and bolts, I prefer a fixed bolt on top, which provides a rigid vertical pivot on locos, though  can be a pain for body removal, but on coaches I insist on bolt on top - nuts underneath. If a nut falls off a coach, the coach will happily carry on running, if a bolt falls off, the bogie comes off, and you have a potential mega train crash.         BK

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

If you do keep the nuts on the bottom it's very easy to stop them working loose, simply spoil the thread a little way below the rotating part with side cutting pliers. The nut will then lock on to this part of the thread before it locks the bogie arm or pony truck. I use the same method for coach bogies having seen far too many with springs inserted between the bogie and the underframe, this does indeed keep the nut on but it also inhibits the bogie from rocking as it it should. I still have dozens (possibly hundreds) of these to remove from coaches running on Carlisle.

Good afternoon Mike,

 

That's a good idea for retaining nuts.

 

On things such as coaches (where I use the system same as Brian Kirby), I retain any nuts with just a blob of old, sticky paint.

 

For a more 'permanent', though still easily-loosened, solution, I solder a small brass washer to one end of the nut (not too much solder). When placed on the screw this 'locks' very happily.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

I'm delighted. 

 

How did you prevent the bearings from revolving in the Wills cast metal frames? My memory tells me they were just crimped in.

 

How did you fix brakes to them?

 

How did you get a more-modern motor/gearbox into the triangular 'emptiness' caused by the design's acceptance of an XO4 motor or its derivatives? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Funnily enough ...

 

Just been servicing this venerable member of the Shap stud ready for service at the weekend (works the '1950s pick-up goods'; real loco was allocated to Tebay in the early 1950s). I acquired the loco 25 years ago. It was built by Hubert Parrish who built and sold models professionally in the Manchester area. I was a friend of the family and I was involved in the sombre task of clearing his stock etc when he died. I came across this loco, it ran OK so I thought I'd have it. I did a bit of detailing and re-liveried it but it's basically the loco as built, possibly 40 year old plus.

 

Anyway ... it was sounding a bit 'grate-y' just now so I thought I'd put a few drops of oil on the motor and bearings. I can't remember the last time I took it apart so imagine my surprise when ...

 

The original K's motor! I'd assumed it was at least an X04. A few drops of oil, a quick wipe of the commutator and it's running even better now!

 

Clearly, if I was starting afresh to create a Fowler 2-6-2T, I wouldn't start from here. Otherwise, I'm with John. This one - miraculously(?) - is working just fine. It ain't broke so I'm not going to fix it!

 

Anyway Tony, in the meantime, I've made a start on checking and cataloguing the Peter Lawson kit built locos. All run fine; not come across a 'dud' yet. I think there might even be one of these (K's Fowler 2-6-2T but with a better mechanism). Be the spring time before I've retrieved and catalogued everything.

 

See you at the weekend.

[Michael Edge]

48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mike,

 

That's a good idea for retaining nuts.

 

On things such as coaches (where I use the system same as Brian Kirby), I retain any nuts with just a blob of old, sticky paint.

 

For a more 'permanent', though still easily-loosened, solution, I solder a small brass washer to one end of the nut (not too much solder). When placed on the screw this 'locks' very happily.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

It's simple, quick and foolproof - and the nut still unscrews without any problem. I've probably been advising people to do this for more than 50 years, I think my Dad told me how to do it when I was about 10 years old (as he was a plumber he also taught me how to solder properly).

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of 'Semis', here's a selection you can expect to see at Doncaster over the weekend..........

 

 

I 'tinkered' with this Hornby (Hornby Dublo) one, testing it on Little Bytham.

 

It's now where it belongs, on Shap.

 

 

I built this DJH example (painted by Geoff Haynes) for Little Bytham, even though the prototype only ran (not very well by all accounts) on the ECML four years after the station was demolished. 

 

So.............

 

 

Though still my property, this line is much more appropriate. 

 

I know not for sure the origins of the following, but they're definitely 'Semis'.

 

 

 

 

 

Shap's a great layout for watching the trains go by. A sort of WCML equivalent of Stoke Summit? 

 

 

[LNER4479]

Thanks, Tony.

 

The DUCHESSES featured there will all be in action ... apart from the first one(!) Nowt wrong with 46252, apart from the rather insipid shade of green (not your fault); she has been re-allocated to the home layout, having been usurped by none other than 46234, the 1939 record holder and a true 'Duchess' (of Abercorn) to boot. Another Hornby 'Hornby Dublo' example and a much better version of the green livery. Acquired as 46232 and re-identitied.

 

Others you feature are Tom (Dewdney)'s Hornby 46232, my Model Loco 46251 (usually allocated to Aberdeen but having a turn on the Shap roster again at this show), my 46224, a first Chinese-era example, with a fair bit of detailing added to head up the 1953 Royal Scot (all MkI 'Festival of Britain' rake) and my 46248, also a re-worked first Chinese era example. To those, add 6221 (for the 1937 Coronation Scot) and 46256 (no show without Punch).

 

Plenty of other stuff on the roster, but I do rather like my ... ahem ... Princess Coronations! 😎

[nsl714]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Zak,

 

DJH's arrangement (and they're not alone) for fixing bogies and ponies is completely the wrong way round in my opinion. 

 

As Mike Edge points out, a box spanner is needed to fix the nut, and then what prevents it from working loose in service? 

 

My method is to solder a nut securely to the top of the relevant spacer, and then tap through the spacer's hole 8BA (I think DJH's nuts and screws are metric, so I don't use them). 

 

The bogie/pony can then be secured/retained by a shouldered screw; only a small screwdriver (which must be in every modellers' toolbox) being required.

 

The following shots should help...............

 

 

The spacer, with the nut soldered on top, ready-tapped. 

 

Another thing, when I'm happy that my frames are square, I solder the spacers in solid (before I solder the nut in place).

 

 

The bogie-retaining shouldered screw is a commercial product, and the pony-retaining one is one I made; no more than a small piece of brass tube soldered to an 8BA screw. 

 

 

I mentioned recently my buying of lots of Jamieson spacers. I also acquired lots of shouldered screws at the same time, bought from EAMES. 

 

A shouldered screw can be bought now from Markits, I believe. 

 

 

A bogie held securely in place.

 

 

And the arrangement underneath a DJH A3 under construction. 

 

To get the body off, one just releases the two shouldered screws, revealing the body-fixing screws, and one is away. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

 

 

Tony,

 

The above information was indeed very useful, thanks very much for providing it. This arrangement is much more workable than trying to contort the bogie/pony to fit the body. Onwards!

 

Regards,

Zach

[sandra]

Hello Tony,

 

It was pleasant to see you and Mo on Monday. Our running of the railway went well in the morning on Monday but it rather fell apart in the afternoon, however a very enjoyable day.

 

I was interested in your new A2/1 which was to be thrown away but which you resurrected. Coincidentally at the Manchester show before Christmas I bought two old locomotives built from DJH kits. These were an A2/2 and A2/3.They seem to have been built purely for static display as they had no motors or any pick-ups or any indication that they were intended to be run.

 

This week I have been working on the A2/3. It has been converted to EM gauge, a Portescap motor has been installed and pick-ups fitted.

Today after a number of problems I managed to get the locomotive to run and here she is hauling the stock of the “Northumbrian”. This is a 14 coach train with a number of kit-built coaches. She hauled the train with no trouble and it was very satisfying to see what had been a rather destitute locomotive  successfully haul a heavy train. I appreciate that this is probably a sentimental view but it is very pleasant to resurrect a locomotive like this.

 

I haven’t done anything cosmetic to the locomotive and there is much to do as it is a bit of a mess. It has to be stripped and repainted and various other modifications made but ultimately it will be a useful addition to Retford’s loco stock. At present it’s 60517 “Ocean Swell” and it will probably keep this identity.

 

Sandra

[John Besley]

I have been modifying Hornby Gresley coach chassis for 10.1/4" miniture railway coaches. 

With their wide and tall bodies I found that there was way to much slack allowing the coaches to turn over, so I stripped the boiges of there nasy push fit pins a and turned up a brass bush tapped 6BA that sat inside the chassis recess these passed through the rectangular slots in the boige and onto a turned brass keep washer through which a short 6BA round headed screw passed into the said Bush.

 

Still at the early stages as I intend to epoxy the Bush into the chassis and use threadlock the bolt in place allowing just enough movement.

 

Be intresting to know how others have takled these as in the past boiges where fitted to chassis with a pressed brass rivet, if my chassis had this I'd have left them like that