Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

On 07/06/2019 at 22:02, Manxcat said:

I have used Templot many times and have given demonstrations of its use and capabilities at some MERG meetings. It took me a long time to get to grips with how it works and its many capabilities but once well versed enough to really start using it I have not looked back. 

 

I find that one of the main benefits of using it is that one can quickly discover why the plan in your head will not actually fit the space available without looking rather stupid. It can be used to create plans in numerous gauges and the resulting track plan can be printed on A4 plain paper sheets which can then be spliced together with clear document tape for transfer of the plan to the baseboards. I use it a lot to make the templates for everything from single turnouts to complex curved junctions. The printout is then the exact template  for cutting and laying the correct sleepers at the proper spacing and for soldering the rails to make my own turnouts.

 

I have used it to plan three of our club layouts and two of my own. I have spoken to many people who have watched my presentations and decided then that it is not for them. To each his own. I am not here to force its use on anyone but if you persevere you might just surprise yourself. As if is often said on these pages, I recently looked at our latest club layout and thought "I designed that. I made the points. It all works and I am very pleased with that."

 

Here is a photo of part of the plan for our current club layout and the Templot diagram for the same section with the points I made laid on it to get a feel for the overall look.

 

Archie

Good morning Archie,

 

Thanks for explaining this.

 

Is the new layout prototype-based? I ask this because it's easier (in my view) to plot a prototype's trackwork - if you have a drawing of course.

 

 

You'll have seen this already (and the following images) in my Crowood book (which you so kindly complimented me on). It's actually BR's own 1948 plan of LB, which includes the footprints of all the structures as well. Ian Wilson then added the MR/M&GNR bit and the fiddle yard. In the event, Ian's fiddle yard arrangement was not used. The plan was also used for Norman Turner to make the baseboards.

 

The relevant (trackwork) bits of this were then printed to 4mm scale for Norman Solomon to make all the pointwork off-site, allowances being made for it being OO. 

 

 

 

With all the pointwork and crossings made, Norman Solomon returned and plotted the position of the roads using the scale plan, taking measurements from the baseboard edge. The Down fast was laid first................... and so on.

 

 

This was the result. It does help, of course, if you've got the best in the business doing the job. You'll see all this complete, when you visit next week. 

 

I did draw-out (by hand, of course) a 'sort-of' plan for the fiddle yard roads, but abandoned it, preferring to set points out 'by eye'. 

 

 

The positions of points were also (to some extent) dictated by the positions of baseboard bearers. Part of the reason for not using Ian Wilson's original idea is shown in the background. I laid 'swan necks' at both ends to increase the end radii. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Thanks for the collective wisdom regarding fixing the outside cranks on my Bird class: it turned out that they could be soldered quite easily, and they haven't shifted since.

 

I've now been gradually running in the loco under load. The motor was showing a tendency to get hot after a few minutes running despite everything being free and the gear mesh seeming to be not overly tight, but after applying some grease to the gears, rather than oil (which tends to be flung off as soon as the motor turns) things to be heading in the right direction. I'm now gradually increasing the running intervals and she seems to be getting quieter and faster, which I take to be a sign of things generally bedding in.

 

I've rarely had a loco go together without some major or minor snag to be overcome, but when all seems dark, I remind myself that all the previous snags were solved eventually, and some of the locos that were considered problem children are now among my favorite runners, even if it took some work to get there. The City class, which was a real swine to get working as well as I'd like, is a case in point - that's now the benchmark that the Bird has to match.

 

Al

What a splendid post to start a Sunday with, Al,

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[gr.king]

Or indeed, with which to start a Sunday...

[Barry Ten]

Up with which I will not put, etc...

[Tony Wright]

Not long returned from an excellent weekend in Kettering at the East Anglian Show.

 

Lots to talk about, and a fair bit made for CRUK as I was able to fix everything brought to my 'surgery' apart from an N Gauge Thomas and a Lima OO 4F. May I thank those who donated so generously?

 

Mo and I were opposite the largest layout in the show, which had a major breakdown. I felt for the builders/operators as throughout Saturday they attempted to get anything running, even to the extent of lifting out a point, but to no avail. Crouching underneath boards, or lying on your back with a torch is not anyone's idea of a 'good show'. Today, over its 50' length just two short trains were running, but in only one direction. They just kept circulating. Everything was operated by DCC. I hope they eventually get it fixed. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Tony Wright

[Manxcat]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

.Good morning Archie,

 

Thanks for explaining this.

 

Is the new layout prototype-based? I ask this because it's easier (in my view) to plot a prototype's trackwork - if you have a drawing of course.

 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony.

 

The layout is not based on a particular prototype but follows ex-North British practice. As a club we apply some basic rules which I know from your posts that you entirely agree with. The track plan has to be prototypical and "look" right.  There must be catch points protecting the main line or a set of points which would not allow a conflicting move to foul the main line. The layout will be fully signalled as per prototype practice and all signals will be operational, including the disks. Track in the scenic sections is all code 75 bullhead rail and the point rodding is already installed with some more distant points having model point motors beside their tie bars. Almost every building so far is scratch built.

 

The work is progressing well and the layout will be ready for exhibition at Model Rail Scotland 2020. If you are there I hope you will enjoy watching it. It is called Phoenix Lane because it is our first layout to be nearing completion since the fire in another part of the building where our clubrooms are situated destroyed everything we owned as a club.

 

 

[PMP]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Not long returned from an excellent weekend in Kettering at the East Anglian Show.

 

Lots to talk about, and a fair bit made for CRUK as I was able to fix everything brought to my 'surgery' apart from an N Gauge Thomas and a Lima OO 4F. May I thank those who donated so generously?

 

Had you reported you had been able to fix a Lima 4F, you would have immediately been elevated to Supreme Being/Deity status! 

 

‘A Lima 4F chassis that works, Priceless.

For everything else there’s Tony Wright!

[Compound2632]

Lima OO 4F? I wasn't aware there was such a thing. Having googled it, I'm wishing I had remained in ignorance...

[Dave Hunt]

The most puzzling thing to me is why anyone would want to have a Lima OO 4F fixed?

To misquote Mr. Spock, 'It's not a 4F as we would know it Stephen.'

 

Dave

Edited June 9, 2019 by Dave Hunt
Got the wrong Star Trek character first time

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

 

Had you reported you had been able to fix a Lima 4F, you would have immediately been elevated to Supreme Being/Deity status! 

 

‘A Lima 4F chassis that works, Priceless.

For everything else there’s Tony Wright!

 

I was there. The look on Tonys face as Mo handed it to him was priceless.  It was the look of someone who knows they've been beaten before they even start. 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Manxcat said:

 

Good evening Tony.

 

The layout is not based on a particular prototype but follows ex-North British practice. As a club we apply some basic rules which I know from your posts that you entirely agree with. The track plan has to be prototypical and "look" right.  There must be catch points protecting the main line or a set of points which would not allow a conflicting move to foul the main line. The layout will be fully signalled as per prototype practice and all signals will be operational, including the disks. Track in the scenic sections is all code 75 bullhead rail and the point rodding is already installed with some more distant points having model point motors beside their tie bars. Almost every building so far is scratch built.

 

The work is progressing well and the layout will be ready for exhibition at Model Rail Scotland 2020. If you are there I hope you will enjoy watching it. It is called Phoenix Lane because it is our first layout to be nearing completion since the fire in another part of the building where our clubrooms are situated destroyed everything we owned as a club.

 

 

The damage looks substantial, Archie,

 

Was the fire deliberately-started by vandals?

 

On a pedantic point (do I ever make any others?), points protecting running lines from sidings, etc, are called trap points. Catch points deliberately derail runaways on gradients.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I was there. The look on Tonys face as Mo handed it to him was priceless.  It was the look of someone who knows they've been beaten before they even start. 

Yes you were, Dave,

 

I'd forgotten that it was coincidental (I forget just about everything nowadays).

 

What a great couldn't-care-less guy who brought it. As you saw, he also brought a Hornby Jinty, Hornby Pannier, Hornby diesel Dock Shunter, Lima Class 33 and a Bachmann 'starter' diesel 0-6-0, all packed 'carefully' into a single plastic bag (which was a bit torn), with no padding at all. What did I say after I'd got those running again? 'Five outa six ain't bad!' It shows how robust earlier models are, and with just a clean, pick-up tweak and some oil they'll be good for another few decades. The Bachmann diesel's pick-ups were a bit naff, but after some adjustment, away it went. Thanks go to Jeremy of Digitrains (and your good lady and Mo who worked out in an instant how to wrap the models - how come women are so good at this when we were stumped?) who gave me some bubble-wrap. 

 

As for the Lima 4F, I wonder whether the chap will take my advice of 'Have you got a spade? Have you got a plot?' Good, then go and dig a hole and bury it!' 

 

Good to see you yesterday, and so many other great mates.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jamie92208]

I've got an O scale Lima 4F to fix when I get home. I have several that have been variuosly converted into passable 3 an 2 F's by Ray Clasper. Body and tender wise they look OK but grind round the layout with a unique sound signiature.  There is an option to put new Chassis' under them  marketed by John Taylor at Uncommon kits. He calls it a 3.5F chassis.

 

Jamie

[martin_wynne]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

On a pedantic point (do I ever make any others?), points protecting running lines from sidings, etc, are called trap points. Catch points deliberately derail runaways on gradients.

 

On an even more pedantic note, "trap" describes the operational function. The physical object is called a "set of catch points" by the p.w. staff and described as such on the manufacturing drawings. Peco correctly describe their catch points as exactly that.

 

Trap points are often implemented using a set of derailing catch points, but not always. Sometimes trap points may be a full turnout leading to a spur with a buffer stop or sand drag. Sometimes more complex formations such as a double slip provide the trap function.

 

Runaway catch points on gradients are now very rare. They were normally sprung open, unlike where catch points are used as traps they are rodded from the box and interlocked.

 

Here's an unusual situation, a single spur and buffer stop providing two separate trap functions. The turnout on the left provides the trap points for the siding, and the double-slip on the right is the trap points for the depot:

 

 

The rails at the buffer stop run side-by-side.

 

The maintenance depot is for the L&Y electric stock. Hence the electrified trap spur.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited June 10, 2019 by martin_wynne
photo added

[Flying Pig]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As for the Lima 4F, I wonder whether the chap will take my advice of 'Have you got a spade? Have you got a plot?' Good, then go and dig a hole and bury it!' 

 

The last thing you should do with a Lima 4F is plant it.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

On an even more pedantic note, "trap" describes the operational function. The physical object is called a "set of catch points" by the p.w. staff and described as such on the manufacturing drawings. Peco correctly describe their catch points as exactly that.

 

Trap points are often implemented using a set of derailing catch points, but not always. Sometimes trap points may be a full turnout leading to a spur with a buffer stop or sand drag. Sometimes more complex formations such as a double slip provide the trap function.

 

Runaway catch points on gradients are now very rare. They were normally sprung open, unlike where catch points are used as traps they are rodded from the box and interlocked.

 

Here's an unusual situation, a single spur and buffer stop providing two separate trap functions. The turnout on the left provides the trap points for the siding, and the double-slip on the right is the trap points for the depot:

 

 

The rails at the buffer stop run side-by-side.

 

The maintenance depot is for the L&Y electric stock. Hence the electrified trap spur.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thanks for the clarification, Martin,

 

Where is this picture taken, please?

 

I used to ride on the three-rail electric units between Liverpool Exchange and Ormskirk on a weekly basis, when training as a teacher at Edge Hill College, Ormskirk in the late-'60s. I don't recognise the location. Is it on the Southport road? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for the clarification, Martin,

 

Where is this picture taken, please?

 

I used to ride on the three-rail electric units between Liverpool Exchange and Ormskirk on a weekly basis, when training as a teacher at Edge Hill College, Ormskirk in the late-'60s. I don't recognise the location. Is it on the Southport road?

 

Hi Tony,

 

It's Roe Lane Junction, Southport. Here's the 1927 map, the photo was obviously taken from the footbridge:

 

© National Library of Scotland

 

Here's a link to the full map: https://maps.nls.uk/view/126518903#zoom=4&lat=6551&lon=9998&layers=BT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited June 10, 2019 by martin_wynne
link added

[Tony Wright]

15 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Tony,

 

It's Roe Lane Junction, Southport. Here's the 1927 map, the photo was obviously taken from the footbridge:

 

© National Library of Scotland

 

Here's a link to the full map: https://maps.nls.uk/view/126518903#zoom=4&lat=6551&lon=9998&layers=BT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin,

 

I thought it might be. I only ever travelled from Exchange to Southport once.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Manxcat]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The damage looks substantial, Archie,

 

Was the fire deliberately-started by vandals?

 

On a pedantic point (do I ever make any others?), points protecting running lines from sidings, etc, are called trap points. Catch points deliberately derail runaways on gradients.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Well you learn something new every day, or so they say. Trap points, eh? I shall try to remember that for the future.

 

The damage was very substantial and it was over a year before the clubroom was renovated by the landlord to a state where we could work there again. The fire service could find no evidence of foul play and the matter was never resolved in that respect. The part of the building where it started was a wooden floor and carpet specialist and it was very full of stock. Consequently, that part was almost razed to the ground. Remind me to tell you a little more about it when I see you at Quorn this coming weekend.

 

Archie

[Manxcat]

If you have never seen a steam loco being derailed by a set of trap points then you need look no further than this video.

 

 

[jamie92208]

16 minutes ago, Manxcat said:

If you have never seen a steam loco being derailed by a set of trap points then you need look no further than this video.

 

 

OOPS or words to that effect....

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

Today, I've finished the DJH 'Semi's' body. Far too much time has gone by since I started the model in March (at the Preston Show), so it's time it was finished. I've got the valve gear to make to complete it. I always leave 'nasty' jobs like that to the last. 

 

 

Was there ever a more impressive prototype than Stanier's masterpiece? 

 

 

 

 

Despite the real thing being such a wonderful loco, I'm still happier building models of things which are ugly in comparison.................

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[westerner]

I quite like ugly locos.

[Jesse Sim]

Morning all, I’m wondering if anyone could be of help to me. I’m looking for some information on Allington Junction, images would help, or a track plan or anything. 

 

Many thanks in advance. 

 

Jesse 

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Morning all, I’m wondering if anyone could be of help to me. I’m looking for some information on Allington Junction, images would help, or a track plan or anything.

 

Hi Jesse,

 

A track plan is here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/114652269#zoom=5&lat=9531&lon=13230&layers=BT

 

Martin.