Wright writes.....

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

The story as I understand it is Albert decided to preserve the cleanest in the yard at the time. 45305 wasn’t withdrawn until 1968 and sadly by then the choices were only from a motley collection of LMS 5’s and 8fs. The A1’s and B16’s from York were long gone by then. 

45305 was originally intended to do the honours out of/into Lime Street on 1T57, IIRC, but was failed with (I think) a collapsed brick arch, so 45110 got her place in history.

Edited May 7, 2021 by MarkC

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, CF MRC said:

Apologies for a bit of thread drift and happy to remove if required, but this does have a GN flavour. The Model Railway Club has made some excellent facsimiles of the ‘Kings Cross Goods Station Refreshment Club’ mugs that were found when the site was excavated a few years ago.  

https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/shop/merchandise/kings-cross-goods-station-refreshment-club-mugs-mrc-exclusive/
Incidentally, we have sold most of our original batch of mugs.

 

We are now considering making a matching plate to hold your dunking biscuits. It would be in the same style in bone China, 8” diameter (picture shows a mock up). The quality is superb. Would there be interest in this plate?

 

Hello Tim, yes, I'd certainly be interested in the GNR plate please - just ordering the mug now!

Edited May 7, 2021 by Chas Levin

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Am I right in saying that the lowering of the smokebox numbers was a consequence of lowering the top lamp bracket, done to reduce the risk of enginemen getting too close to the overhead wires? This meant there was no room between the lowered lamp bracket and the smokebox handrail, hence the repositioning.

 

The LMR, of course, moved their top lamp brackets down further still, to an offset position on the smokebox door, so didn't need to reposition the smokebox numberplates.

The lowering of the front numberplate was done before overhead wires became commonplace (starting in 1955/'56). 

 

The reason would appear to be that, when a headboard was attached to the top lamp bracket of an A1, A2 or a Thompson Pacific, it caused eddies, resulting in smoke being drawn back down. The numberplate had to be lowered to allow the top lamp bracket to be lowered, thus solving the problem. Another reason might have been the difficulty for a fireman to have to reach up so high to attach a train headboard. 

 

When the possibility of an ER loco running under overhead wires became more commonplace (though hardly common), the top lamp bracket was lowered even further, resulting in the crossrail being divided, with the bracket fixed between the two halves. This happened on several A1s, some A2s, an A2/3 or two and several A3s (though only on some fitted with German blinkers). Six V2s also got this modification. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Clive Mortimore]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The lowering of the front numberplate was done before overhead wires became commonplace (starting in 1955/'56). 

 

The reason would appear to be that, when a headboard was attached to the top lamp bracket of an A1, A2 or a Thompson Pacific, it caused eddies, resulting in smoke being drawn back down. The numberplate had to be lowered to allow the top lamp bracket to be lowered, thus solving the problem. Another reason might have been the difficulty for a fireman to have to reach up so high to attach a train headboard. 

 

When the possibility of an ER loco running under overhead wires became more commonplace (though hardly common), the top lamp bracket was lowered even further, resulting in the crossrail being divided, with the bracket fixed between the two halves. This happened on several A1s, some A2s, an A2/3 or two and several A3s (though only on some fitted with German blinkers). Six V2s also got this modification. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Hello Tony

 

Woodhead and Liverpool Street to Southend and Chelmsford come to mind.

[Tony Wright]

Just now, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

Woodhead and Liverpool Street to Southend and Chelmsford come to mind.

I don't think the 1500V Woodhead equipment was ever thought as dangerous as 25KV, Clive. For over ten years, A3s, V2s and B1s carried 'The Master Cutler' and 'The South Yorkshireman' headboards on their top lamp brackets underneath it. That said, I don't think I'd have liked to have made contact with it!

 

The mention of the electrified lines out of Liverpool Street is a bit irrelevant, because none of those was RA9 (and thus prohibited to any LNER Pacific or V2). However, the 'Brits' (whilst still ER-allocated), B1s and B17s never had their top lamp brackets lowered, even though they carried named train headboards. Perhaps the ex-GE men were shorter? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't think the 1500V Woodhead equipment was ever thought as dangerous as 25KV, Clive. For over ten years, A3s, V2s and B1s carried 'The Master Cutler' and 'The South Yorkshireman' headboards on their top lamp brackets underneath it. That said, I don't think I'd have liked to have made contact with it!

 

The mention of the electrified lines out of Liverpool Street is a bit irrelevant, because none of those was RA9 (and thus prohibited to any LNER Pacific or V2). However, the 'Brits' (whilst still ER-allocated), B1s and B17s never had their top lamp brackets lowered, even though they carried named train headboards. Perhaps the ex-GE men were shorter? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have worked on a plastic surgery and burns unit. I have looked after a few people who were zapped by 240V, a 2mm burn on their finger where they touched the live wire and a burn the size of the size of the sole of their foot, where their foot acted as the earthing point. Plus the burn that tunneled from their hand to their foot through various parts of the body. Then throw in the potential damage to the heart. When I was training I nursed one of my colleagues, he had be electrocuted through a dodgy lead when shaving a patient. My colleague was a patient on the cardiac ward, while I was helping him have his wash he had a cardiac arrest. The scariest moment in my nursing experience, a mate suddenly dying in front of me. Thankfully the actions of the other ward staff in helping me, we saved him.

 

The main difference between 25KV and 1500V is the safe distance needed to prevent arcing, look at the size of the insulators on Woodhead OLE and that outside your railway shed, 1500 V are a lot smaller. 1500V OLE equipment is heavier (as to be of less resistance) than 25KV, as it draws a greater amperage for the same amount of power to shift a train of the same weight. So someone acting as the conduit for the electricity to go from the OLE to earth would be zapped with much the same electrical power, the difference being with 25KV it could happen a few more inches away as the potential of an arc is greater. 

 

 

[Jesse Sim]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I honestly didn't know that.

 

A shame really, and I'll bet NSW wished it had accepted it now. 

 

When Jesse Sim took Mo and me to the NSW Railway Museum, it was amazing to see how many of the exhibits were 'Made in Britain' (made for Australia, of course). 

 

It would have been fantastic to have seen 60012; an A4 I never saw as a trainspotter. '9, '24 and '27 from Haymarket, but none of the others shedded at 64B. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Ahem, I did tell you that about COA, must listen my dear boy. 
 

Well that’s the story I’ve heard, idiots we are for not accepting her. 

[jrg1]

18 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

You can stuff museums full of full of first, the last, the fasted the most powerful and some people will pay to see them but financial support form somewhere else is normally needed.

 

To get these lumps of metal to perform in their natural environment,  that is pulling trains the cost goes up. If you want steam railways you need types of locos that will economical to operate. Ones that are easy to maintain. Remember most of those paying to ride on a steam train want a ride on a steam train not worried if it was a failure like 60113 or yet another LMS 4-6-2 like 46256. An Austerity 0-6-0ST "Is like the trains great granddad travelled on". 

 

You ask what would be on my list

 

Rocket

 

Production HST.

I am basing my views on the BRB criteria for preservation-engineering interest and individual locomotive fame.

So, to expand the list, 

L&Y Highflyer

LNWR Precursor Sirocco

5005 Manorbier Castle

Highland Railway River Class

Caledonian Railway Cardean

APT train

Metro Vick Blue Pullman Train

Class 22 Diesel Hydraulic

Class 41 D6xx Hydraulic

 

If the public are as indifferent as you say, the essential crowd-funding of so many replicas would need some explanation.

Perhaps it is like the punters I saw looking round Lincoln Cathedral, and only interested in the gift shop.  Fortunately, the majority of visitors appreciated being there, and wanted to know more.

[bbishop]

21 hours ago, jrg1 said:

Preservation has been rather haphazard.  Here's some that should have made it:-

60014 Silver Link

60113 Great Northern

60700

46256 Sir William A. Stanier

6004 The last Claughton

30461 LSWR Paddlebox

50455 L&Y Dreadnought

62618 The last D16

Urie King Arthur

10000 EE Diesel

10201 SR Diesel

It is gratifying to know that we will see various replicas filling the gaps.

Purely from a Southern perspective, I would list a Urie H15 rather than a N15.  The H15 class was not the greatest loco on ten wheels but it was the first 4-6-0 with two outside cylinders and therefore the precursor of all the Black 5s and B1s.  The I would have chosen the Drummond D15 over the Paddleboat.  Once superheated by Urie, they monopolised the Pompey Direct line for over a decade and were never wholly superceded by the Schools.  One of the most difficult main lines to operate, even now electric trains struggle with the 1-80 gradients.     Bill

[Clive Mortimore]

7 minutes ago, bbishop said:

Purely from a Southern perspective, I would list a Urie H15 rather than a N15.  The H15 class was not the greatest loco on ten wheels but it was the first 4-6-0 with two outside cylinders and therefore the precursor of all the Black 5s and B1s.  The I would have chosen the Drummond D15 over the Paddleboat.  Once superheated by Urie, they monopolised the Pompey Direct line for over a decade and were never wholly superceded by the Schools.  One of the most difficult main lines to operate, even now electric trains struggle with the 1-80 gradients.     Bill

Hi Bill

 

Wasn't the Jones Goods of the Highland Railway the first 4-6-0 and it had outside cylinders. 

 

More than that when Terry Thomas crashes is aeroplane on to the roof of the train the Highland Goods is pulling before going into Old Warden Tunnel you can see Goldington Power Station where I was an apprentice.

[gr.king]

I rather suspect that a land far, far away had the first 4-6-0 with 2 outside cylinders, anything other than outside cylinders there being very rare.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

The big thing with the H15 was it was the first British mixed traffic 4-6-0 with outside valve gear. 

 

John

Edited May 8, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have worked on a plastic surgery and burns unit. I have looked after a few people who were zapped by 240V, a 2mm burn on their finger where they touched the live wire and a burn the size of the size of the sole of their foot, where their foot acted as the earthing point. Plus the burn that tunneled from their hand to their foot through various parts of the body. Then throw in the potential damage to the heart. When I was training I nursed one of my colleagues, he had be electrocuted through a dodgy lead when shaving a patient. My colleague was a patient on the cardiac ward, while I was helping him have his wash he had a cardiac arrest. The scariest moment in my nursing experience, a mate suddenly dying in front of me. Thankfully the actions of the other ward staff in helping me, we saved him.

 

The main difference between 25KV and 1500V is the safe distance needed to prevent arcing, look at the size of the insulators on Woodhead OLE and that outside your railway shed, 1500 V are a lot smaller. 1500V OLE equipment is heavier (as to be of less resistance) than 25KV, as it draws a greater amperage for the same amount of power to shift a train of the same weight. So someone acting as the conduit for the electricity to go from the OLE to earth would be zapped with much the same electrical power, the difference being with 25KV it could happen a few more inches away as the potential of an arc is greater. 

 

 

I'm not suggesting that 1500 volts isn't dangerous, Clive.

 

The point I was making was that the ER at the time (the 1950s) didn't deem it necessary to warn its footplate staff of danger by fixing electric warning flashes to its locomotives; until 1961, when, however remote in the case of the RA9 stuff, there was a chance it'd run underneath 25KV. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I have worked on a plastic surgery and burns unit. I have looked after a few people who were zapped by 240V, a 2mm burn on their finger where they touched the live wire and a burn the size of the size of the sole of their foot, where their foot acted as the earthing point. Plus the burn that tunneled from their hand to their foot through various parts of the body. Then throw in the potential damage to the heart. When I was training I nursed one of my colleagues, he had be electrocuted through a dodgy lead when shaving a patient. My colleague was a patient on the cardiac ward, while I was helping him have his wash he had a cardiac arrest. The scariest moment in my nursing experience, a mate suddenly dying in front of me. Thankfully the actions of the other ward staff in helping me, we saved him.

 

The main difference between 25KV and 1500V is the safe distance needed to prevent arcing, look at the size of the insulators on Woodhead OLE and that outside your railway shed, 1500 V are a lot smaller. 1500V OLE equipment is heavier (as to be of less resistance) than 25KV, as it draws a greater amperage for the same amount of power to shift a train of the same weight. So someone acting as the conduit for the electricity to go from the OLE to earth would be zapped with much the same electrical power, the difference being with 25KV it could happen a few more inches away as the potential of an arc is greater. 

 

 

I'm not suggesting that 1500 volts isn't dangerous, Clive.

 

The point I was making was that the ER at the time (the 1950s) didn't deem it necessary to warn its footplate staff of danger by fixing electric warning flashes to its locomotives; until 1961, when, however remote in the case of the RA9 stuff, there was a chance it'd run underneath 25KV. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Duplicate post. I don't know why, but it kept on asking me to re-submit! 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Tony Wright
post appeared twice

[drmditch]

Re: 'nice old steam engines'.
In those happy pre-covid times, when visiting the NYMR, I have heard similar phrases used to describe BR Standards that were and are considerably younger than I am.

I should point out however that I have not needed to be rescued from a scrapyard!
(Well not yet anyway!)

[Chamby]

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It looks good Phil,

 

Is it as-supplied by Hornby, or have you altered it?

 

If the former, Hornby has put the front numberplate in the wrong place - on the top hingestrap. If it's your work, you've done the same. 

 

The numberplates on the non-streamlined LNER big locos were only lowered to the top hingestraps from about 1956. Previously (in the main) they were fixed above the crossrail and below the top lamp bracket (some had the crossrail and numberplate transposed). Some A3s never had theirs lowered, as did all but six of the V2s. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hi Tony, yes it is Hornby's model of No.500, re-lettered and having the brass nameplate/crew/coal and lamp treatment.

 

Funnily enough, I nearly asked on here about the smokebox number positioning before placing it, but decided that as all the available photographs on the internet showed it on the hinge strap, and the smokebox lamp bracket on the Hornby model leaves very little room for the number plate to fit between it and the handrail, that it was a reasonable assumption to place it on the hinge strap.  I should have guessed it was not that obvious!  I think Hornby got the lamp bracket position right on their model of 500, so perhaps on the original, the bracket was raised when the number plate was added, only to be lowered again a few years later when the numberplate was re-positioned?   No matter, it's a simple fix on the model, thank you.

 

Modelling individual locomotives during early nationalisation does bring unique challenges owing to the rapid pace of changing liveries etc. at this time.   I'm now also questioning whether 60500 actually carried her BR number whilst wearing LNER green... I have seen that other modellers have kit-built 60500 in this livery, but I have yet to see an original photo and it has been suggested that she perhaps went straight from LNER No.500 into Brunswick Green?   The perils of acquiring a locomotive in a class that I am less familiar with...

 

Phil.

[jrg1]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The big thing with the H15 was it was the first British mixed traffic 4-6-0 with outside valve gear. 

 

John

The H15, N15 and S15 family were ahead of their time-massively built, simple and economical.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

Hi Tony, yes it is Hornby's model of No.500, re-lettered and having the brass nameplate/crew/coal and lamp treatment.

 

Funnily enough, I nearly asked on here about the smokebox number positioning before placing it, but decided that as all the available photographs on the internet showed it on the hinge strap, and the smokebox lamp bracket on the Hornby model leaves very little room for the number plate to fit between it and the handrail, that it was a reasonable assumption to place it on the hinge strap.  I should have guessed it was not that obvious!  I think Hornby got the lamp bracket position right on their model of 500, so perhaps on the original, the bracket was raised when the number plate was added, only to be lowered again a few years later when the numberplate was re-positioned?   No matter, it's a simple fix on the model, thank you.

 

Modelling individual locomotives during early nationalisation does bring unique challenges owing to the rapid pace of changing liveries etc. at this time.   I'm now also questioning whether 60500 actually carried her BR number whilst wearing LNER green... I have seen that other modellers have kit-built 60500 in this livery, but I have yet to see an original photo and it has been suggested that she perhaps went straight from LNER No.500 into Brunswick Green?   The perils of acquiring a locomotive in a class that I am less familiar with...

 

Phil.

Good afternoon Phil,

 

I'll have to look up if 60500 was ever in apple green, but you're right about the top bracket having to be raised to accommodate the numberplate, then subsequently lowered even further.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Another request, please..................

 

 

Where is this?

 

I have a vague feeling that this location is familiar to me, though it's not Chester, as was suggested.

 

Somewhere on the L&NWR in the Pennines? 

[Compound2632]

Springwood Junction, Huddersfield.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Compound2632

[Adam88]

Springwood Junction.

[LNER4479]

Springwood tunnels, just to the west of Huddersfield station

edit - simultaneous post! The line to Penistone junctions off here but the train is of course heading up the hill towards Standedge. Loco carries 8C Speke Junction shed plate, allocated there 1949-1958

Edited May 8, 2021 by LNER4479

[Tony Wright]

Thanks to all for identifying the 8F location. 

 

What a great resource this is!

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks to all for identifying the 8F location. 

 

What a great resource this is!

 

Method: 

• Note LNWR signal posts.
• Fail to recognise the tunnel mouths; therefore assume Lancashire / Yorkshire.
• Google Images search LNWR Pennine tunnels
• Identify possible matches - get tunnel names from descriptions
• Search on tunnel name to confirm identification
• Cross-check against the OS 25" maps on the NLS website.

The only "knowledge" needed is the shape of a LNWR signal bracket (cf Ratio kit!) a good idea of the extent of the LNWR.

[Tony Wright]

54 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Method: 

• Note LNWR signal posts.
• Fail to recognise the tunnel mouths; therefore assume Lancashire / Yorkshire.
• Google Images search LNWR Pennine tunnels
• Identify possible matches - get tunnel names from descriptions
• Search on tunnel name to confirm identification
• Cross-check against the OS 25" maps on the NLS website.

The only "knowledge" needed is the shape of a LNWR signal bracket (cf Ratio kit!) a good idea of the extent of the LNWR.

Google?

 

I thought everyone knew how computer-illiterate I am! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.