The stop (or home) signal

[beast66606]

Helsby Home 2 Up Chester controlled by lever 3 - photographed in 1981 and still (end 2009) in use.

 

As simple as it gets - a stop signal (often (and often incorrectly) called a home signal), this signal has no additional arms as there are no options for trains, they can simply go straight ahead.

 

It was provided to protect the trailing crossover which can be seen to the right of the post, and in happier times, the connection from the goods yard (which was situated to the left) which trailed into the Up Chester a hundred or more yards ahead of the signal.

 

This one is of tubular steel construction and would have been an LMS or BR replacement for an LNWR wooden posted signal.

 

Of note is the spectacle area around the glasses, this example is red, often they were black and occasionally white (for stop signals, distant arms where yellow / black / white)

 

[tinsley-toton]

Hi Dave

 

So would you call the signal near the bridge (Just visible in the photo above) a Advanced starter?

 

Also, I was talking to the bobby in Helsby box recently due to having to pass his platform starter "At danger" and asked what he called his 4 stop signals on the Down Chesters, his reply was Home 1, 2 and 3 and Starter. I thought it would be Outer home, Inner home, (Platform) Starter and Advanced starter. What would your answer be?

I realise there are different answers for specific locations.

 

 

Thanks for the posts

T-T

[beast66606]

Hi Dave

 

So would you call the signal near the bridge (Just visible in the photo above) a Advanced starter?

 

Also, I was talking to the bobby in Helsby box recently due to having to pass his platform starter "At danger" and asked what he called his 4 stop signals on the Down Chesters, his reply was Home 1, 2 and 3 and Starter. I thought it would be Outer home, Inner home, (Platform) Starter and Advanced starter. What would your answer be?

I realise there are different answers for specific locations.

 

 

Thanks for the posts

T-T

 

Looking at the box photos from the same day it's called the "Home 2 Up Chester" and the next one at the bridge is "Starting Up Chester" - I've changed the description, the grey area is the junction, I would call it a starter but BR didn't (the backboard is a BR Dymo label type) - would like to see the LNWR naming !

 

The others are as the bobby replied I reckon !

 

hth,

[Jon Fitness]

I think the difference between "home 1 and 2" etc and "outer and inner homes" is down to the distance between them. It's all to do with having 400 yds between the outermost home and a conflicting route for acceptance of trains. The outer home would give that margin but "home 1" would not necessarily do so. If I'm wrong, shame on me I've only been a signalman for 30 years !

Jon F.

[beast66606]

I think the difference between "home 1 and 2" etc and "outer and inner homes" is down to the distance between them. It's all to do with having 400 yds between the outermost home and a conflicting route for acceptance of trains. The outer home would give that margin but "home 1" would not necessarily do so. If I'm wrong, shame on me I've only been a signalman for 30 years !

Jon F.

 

The LMS used outer and inner homes, BR introduced home 1 and home 2 etc. but the meaning is the same, outer or home 1 are the first stop signals, inner or home 2 are the next, inner 2 or home 3 the next etc. etc.

 

Reg 4 (in my day) required 440 yds clearance so typically the outer homes/home 1 were placed 440 yds in rear of the inner / home 2 - but the naming has nothing to do with this, so, for example, Chester No.2 had outer homes on the approaches from Crewe and Warrington (old Chester No.1 signals of course) which were 440s away from the inners, thus allowing acceptance even if something was crossing the junctions.

 

So dare I say it ...

 

PS - Which boxes did you work prior to the PSB ?

 

PPS - I "had a go" in Chester No.4, No.5 and No.6, all the boxes down to Birkenhead and lots more ... B)

 

PPPS - A "young" Mr W Forrester's name appears in some old train registers I have acquired for Port Sunlight

[beast66606]

Some back plates at Frodsham Junction in 1980.

 

 

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

The LMS used outer and inner homes, BR introduced home 1 and home 2 etc. but the meaning is the same, outer or home 1 are the first stop signals, inner or home 2 are the next, inner 2 or home 3 the next etc. etc.

 

Reg 4 (in my day) required 440 yds clearance so typically the outer homes/home 1 were placed 440 yds in rear of the inner / home 2 - but the naming has nothing to do with this, so, for example, Chester No.2 had outer homes on the approaches from Crewe and Warrington (old Chester No.1 signals of course) which were 440s away from the inners, thus allowing acceptance even if something was crossing the junctions.

 

So dare I say it ...

 

PS - Which boxes did you work prior to the PSB ?

 

PPS - I "had a go" in Chester No.4, No.5 and No.6, all the boxes down to Birkenhead and lots more ...

 

PPPS - A "young" Mr W Forrester's name appears in some old train registers I have acquired for Port Sunlight

 

Hmmm. Knew I'd get shot at if I stuck my head up

 

(Draws breath.....)My first box (after train booking at Bolton West) was Agecroft Jc and then went on to relief based at (variously) Pendleton, Bolton, Wellington(Salop) Crewe Basford Hall, Hartford Jc, Chester (PSB and all local boxes) sadly missing the Chester Manual boxes, then Crewe PSB (hated it) then back to Chester via Hartford Jc.

And yes I still work with LWF!

Done about 50+ boxes and I'm pretty sure at least one of them had home 1 and 2 and a Junction less than 440 yds apart.... will try to remember which one it was. Possibly Brindle Heath or Agecroft.

JF

 

PS here's one I made earlier. Noticed your reference to the painted spectacle plates. I think it does look a little better.

 

 

[beast66606]

Hmmm. Knew I'd get shot at if I stuck my head up

 

(Draws breath.....)My first box (after train booking at Bolton West) was Agecroft Jc and then went on to relief based at (variously) Pendleton, Bolton, Wellington(Salop) Crewe Basford Hall, Hartford Jc, Chester (PSB and all local boxes) sadly missing the Chester Manual boxes, then Crewe PSB (hated it) then back to Chester via Hartford Jc.

And yes I still work with LWF!

Done about 50+ boxes and I'm pretty sure at least one of them had home 1 and 2 and a Junction less than 440 yds apart.... will try to remember which one it was. Possibly Brindle Heath or Agecroft.

JF

 

Hi John,

 

Not saying a home 1 / home 2 had to be 440 yds, just typically, at junctions, they were, often being later installations for acceptance purposes, of course Reg 5 could also be used for some trains.

 

I visited Agecroft Junction and got lots of photos of it (not that long before abolition), it would be very weird if you were the signalman on duty at the time

 

PS - you are welcome to come and visit us one day if you like - are you planning a visit to the Crewe show at the end of January ?

[Jon Fitness]

 

I visited Agecroft Junction and got lots of photos of it (not that long before abolition), it would be very weird if you were the signalman on duty at the time

 

 

 

I left the Manchester/Bolton area in 1984 so thankfully missed the execution of Agecroft. Looking back, out of the 25 or so boxes I had on my ticket at the time I think only about 4 are left .

 

Do you have any diagrams/photos of the older boxes between Bolton and Manch? Unity Brook, Robin Hood, Farnworth etc. Never seen pics of them.

 

Will certainly try to call in at Crewe at the end of Jan.

 

JF.