Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Nick Mitchell]

1 hour ago, CF MRC said:

Try working on a 3.5” gauge loco for a contrast in size!

 

4' 8 1⁄2" gauge is where it's at!

 

 

And for anyone else crazy enough thinking about modelling it in 2mm scale (oh, yes he is!!!) - I'm oiling round some Joy valve gear.

This is the view in the other direction:

 

 

[CF MRC]

May your links always vibrate nicely…

 

Tim

[queensquare]

On 22/01/2024 at 17:29, Nick Mitchell said:

There's not been a lot happening on my workbench of late, however back in the summer I was persuaded to start building a OO gauge loco for my eldest son as a side project.

The loco he asked me to build is an LNWR 18" goods (a.k.a. Cauliflower) from the London Road Models kit. It occurred to me that I had been keeping a set of "shot down" etches for this self-same kit in the "too hard" section of my gloat box for over a decade... and being in a position where I have five almost finished (bar final details and painting) locos sitting around, but none at the head-scratching stage, I thought it might finally be time to dig it out.

 

Having gone mad some time ago, I decided it would be a good idea to try and build the same loco in two different scales. At the same time. This might not be as crazy as it sounds? Despite the old adage "never model a model", I've often looked at 4mm models to get a 3-dimensional sense of the details when building a 2mm model that drawings and photographs can't always convey. My idea is to build the 4mm model (which must surely be easier) as a learning exercise for putting together the 2mm version.

 

Here are the etches, side by side for comparison. The brass for the 2mm version is 8 thou, which is more than half the thickness of the 4mm version, which has already brought some challenges in getting things to fit.

 

 

I started with what I thought would be the most tricky bit, which is the boiler. As you can see above, the 4mm kit comes with the boiler cut out and ready-rolled, just requiring the seam along the bottom soldering.

I imagined I would need to use a length of brass tube for the 2mm boiler, with the etch perhaps as an overlay, but I was able to roll it up and form the firebox, and it seemed to be okay!

 

 

The comparison photos of the boilers above looked odd until I realised the 4mm version was designed to be paired with a Belpaire firebox. Unfortunately the rest of the kit was for a round-top firebox (like the 2mm version), but John at LRM was able to quickly furnish me with a replacement.

 

The second-most tricky part looked to be the characteristic wavy footplate. Here the kit provides a fold-up frame to attach the valances to the footplate and keep everything straight.

The photo below is the 4mm version, with red marks where I've needed to filed the footplate back to accommodate OO gauge wheels.

I had the opposite problem on the 2mm version, where the width over the outside of the wheels was too great to fit between the splashers.

 

 

 

I'm trying to progress the two locos step by step. Here they are with the boilers (4mm one with firebox this time!) places inexplicably back-to-front on the footplates. After 20 years, I'm starting to realise just how small 2mm scale is!!!

 

 

I deviated from the instructions in the order of construction, adding the cab sides to the footplate, but the cab front to the firebox. There is a nice half-etched line in the cab front showing where the firebox should fit, and it felt much easier to fit the firebox to this line with the cab front flat on the bench. I could then line the cab front up with the sides, and file the firebox sides to be a nice fit to the footplate before fixing the boiler/firebox unit in place.

 

While I was working on this on the 4mm version, the 2mm boiler decided to burst apart at the seam...

 

 

Below you can see the boiler repaired, with the beginnings of the smokebox in place, and the footplate ready to accept it.

As mentioned above, it was necessary to move the splashers out in order to accommodate the 2mm wheels.

After soldering the cab side sheets in place (there were slots in the footplate to locate it), I filed the footplate away right up to the inside of the side sheets, and measured the gap. I opened the gaps for the splashers to match this dimension.

 

 

When it came to adding the two layers smokebox wrapper, the 4mm version was much easier. There are holes for handrails (or something!) in the boiler and the wrappers, so I could thread a small broken drill through these to get the layers perfectly lined up.

The inner wrapper goes flush to the front of the boiler "tube", then the smokebox front is soldered on, with the outer wrapper overlapping.

On the 2mm version, because the metal is proportionally thicker, the holes in the wrappers didn't line up, and I had to adjust them with a broach.

You can see in the photo below how the hole has become more of a slot so that a 0.3mm drill could pass from one side of the smokebox to the other.

 

 

The other side (below) is a similar mess. I used a larger drill down the hole where the chimney will fit to keep everything lined up in the other dimension.

 

 

With the boiler unit fixed in place on the footplate, it is starting to take on the basic shape of the loco... lots of cleaning up to do however...

 

 

Below is the view from below. I soldered a 14BA nut onto the footplate before fixing the smokebox saddle in place:

 

 

Here's the 4mm version built up to the same state. It is absolutely HUGE!

 

 

Before I go any further with the loco body, I need to work out the chassis arrangements in such a way as the top and bottom will fit together.

The firebox is roughly the same width as a standard set of 2mm frames, so I'm thinking about using the kit frames, with an inner layer added to form a gear tower.

Below is a sketch of how things could be laid out, driving on the rear axle, with the worm and first stage reduction gear hidden in the firebox/ashpan. The cab has a false floor. Raising it a fraction should clear the gear on the rear axle. The universal joint housing will fit between the cab inside splashers, and should be reasonably discreet.

 

 

The 4mm kit comes with a set of lovely castings, which are handy because I can measure them and halve the dimensions ready for making my own...

 

Great stuff Nick. I have one of these etches squirrelled away - Colonel Stephens had a number of ex LNWR locos on his books. If you could work out and document all the tricky bits of building a loco from these etches that would be very useful …..! 😊

 

Jerry

[Argos]

Hi Nick,

Are the 2mm etches the onez currently available from Brass or are they from another source? 

Thanks

Angus

[Nick Mitchell]

11 hours ago, Argos said:

Hi Nick,

Are the 2mm etches the onez currently available from Brass or are they from another source? 

Thanks

Angus

Hi Angus,

I acquired mine privately from @CF MRC many moons ago.

My understanding is that the N Brass ones are a slightly larger scale.

[Argos]

Thanks Nick,

 

That's what I understood also. I was just contemplating investing in the etch to add to the gloat pile before NBrass disappears at the end of next month. 

Edited January 25 by Argos

[queensquare]

14 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

Hi Angus,

I acquired mine privately from @CF MRC many moons ago.

My understanding is that the N Brass ones are a slightly larger scale.

The MR 3F etches Nick Tilson had were significantly over scale but the Cauliflower and Jumbo etches I got from him are spot on for 2mm - I have a picture of a Jumbo at Bath on an inspection saloon in 1930 in case anyone is wondering!

I dug mine out this morning. The quickest way to check is the coupled wheelbase.

Anyone got one of the L&Y 0-6-0 etches they could check. One of these spent a spell on the S&D in the mid 1920s presumably as a temporary replacement for some of the elderly S&D 0-6-0s that were being withdrawn in this period.

Jerry

 

 

 

 

[Wotan]

Afternoon all, 

Rather a quiet day at work today so a start has been made on Mr Higgs B set coaches. Have to say I’ve rather surprised myself it’s gone together rather nicely….

on to the bogies if I’m not disturbed today!

all best 

michael 

[2mm Andy]

On 25/01/2024 at 11:17, queensquare said:

The MR 3F etches Nick Tilson had were significantly over scale but the Cauliflower and Jumbo etches I got from him are spot on for 2mm - I have a picture of a Jumbo at Bath on an inspection saloon in 1930 in case anyone is wondering!

I dug mine out this morning. The quickest way to check is the coupled wheelbase.

Anyone got one of the L&Y 0-6-0 etches they could check. One of these spent a spell on the S&D in the mid 1920s presumably as a temporary replacement for some of the elderly S&D 0-6-0s that were being withdrawn in this period.

Jerry

 

Hi Jerry, any chance you could check the tender etches for your Jumbo or Cauliflower to see what the wheelbase measures? I have an LNWR 1800 gallon tender etch here in N Brass packaging and the wheelbase measures 27mm (should be 25mm if its to 2mm scale).

 

Andy

[Geordie Exile]

I'd ordered a bunch of track for Fenwick Pit, so knew I had to get on with my contribution to the FCAG's layout, namely a couple of huts.  The first is a scratch-built brick hut: other members suggested that the warm glow of a stove would enhance it (it was snowing, a lot, while I was building it) so, yeah, OK.

 

Oof, that downpipe's a bit chunky.  Never mind.

 

The second is a grounded wagon, courtesy of Shop 2 (2-580) but bashed about a bit:

 

And my track arrived today, so it's time to get serious with actually building my own layout.  (Hmm, I think I've said that more than once...)

 

 

[Wotan]

Afternoon all,

so the B set coaches are getting there, the second bodyshell benefits from the Masterclass chassis which is a real improvement and went together very well including the bogies, so may well take that route on the first body?? 
still as a novice coach builder I’m very pleased with the results so far !

all best Michael 

Edited February 1 by Wotan

[bluestag]

Nice with the Cauliflower for 2mm.   Decades ago I scratchbuilt one for 2mm.   It is long gone now.

 

I have reformed now, and model in 7mm.   The one Cauliflower kit in this scale is off the market for a while.   It is tough to build, apparently.   I have one.   It was designed a LONG time ago.   The sweeps on the footplate are separate castings that must be soldered in place and blended in, with difficulty.   The George Norton approach is much better.

[tapdieuk]

Resisting the urge to 'start' an another project (is it me? Or is there is something satisfying about cutting parts out of a virgin etch?) I dug out the box of parts for a Nigel Hunt L&Y 7F, this had been put aside due to the boiler and chassis.  While the tender was mostly complete less body details and motor/drive  set. I had got as only as far as the footplate with the loco. The beading and hand rails for the cab sides and front turned into a afternoon battle. Parts dropped on the floor, parts pingle off when trying to hold with the tweezers, solder running to the wrong parts, not square or just not quite in the right place.... 

Forming the roof went well after I remember I had a pair of half round pliers. These were able to curve bend the areas at the edges. 

Despite reading the instructions I still managed to solder the end parts wrong when forming the fire box. The forming is not great, but flooding the of the joint with solder fills the gaps and allows for flatting of with a file. Lessons learnt for the next fire box I form. All balance in place It Is a huge fire box, giving the loco a caricature look. The loco will look the part pulling a mix of L&Y and LNWR wagons. 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

It's a funny old world sometimes isn't it? After lunch today I popped to my nearest WHS to get MRJ 301. I also took the opportunity to go into the art & craft shop to get a couple of bits, drills & glue, and came out as well with this, which was quite unexpected.

 

 

They do stock some railway modelling bits and it was in the cabinet for sale at the same price the NGS is currently selling them for. Bought by someone associated with the shop but never opened or run. I'm not a NGS member so have never considered getting one, but looking at the little thing, knowing it was decoder + stay-alive fitted, how could you refuse? 

 

 

You can see the family resemblance alongside my Hunslet 05.

 

 

I just gave it a brief run on the odd piece of track via a 9v PP3. Runs very nicely.  Of course being me I couldn't resist just undoing the odd few screws  .....

 

 

The quality of the design shines through. So neat and clean in all aspects. Now all I need to do is remove those horrible couplings, fit some DG's, oh, and work out how to convert it to 2FS! I suppose a bit of weathering might also happen ....   Then work out how/when to run this very rule 1 purchase...   A tiny shunting plank might be called for perhaps.

 

Bob

 

Edited February 15 by Izzy

[Caley Jim]

Speak to @Nigelcliffe.  He's working on how to convert them to 2FS.

 

Jim

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

Speak to @Nigelcliffe.  He's working on how to convert them to 2FS.

 

Jim

 

Having had a look at the evolved wheel design used this evening (compared to the last Farish split-axle locos before the return to wiper pickups) I think a re-machine of the wheels will do the job.  They appear to be central castings ( I don't think they are plated machined brass but they might be) with large rear stub axle and an etched brass spokes insert, so thinning the flanges and reducing the overall wheel width seems possible. 

 

Bob 

Edited February 15 by Izzy

[Nigelcliffe]

39 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

Having had a look at the evolved wheel design used this evening (compared to the last Farish split-axle locos before the return to wiper pickups) I think a re-machine of the wheels will do the job.  They appear to be central castings ( I don't think they are plated machined brass but they might be) with large rear stub axle and an etched brass spokes insert, so thinning the flanges and reducing the overall wheel width seems possible. 

 

Bob 

 

Bob, 

the wheels are a CNC machined brass, which is plated, with a cosmetic etched overlay for the spokes.   So, relatively easy to machine.   But machining will expose brass.  If you restrict yourself to the rear of the flange, its probably OK, but the front-tread area is "go carefully" on appearance and tendency to pickup dirt from the track.    
If thinking of new steel tyres, they're an awkward size,  fraction too small for one 2mm tyre, fraction too big for the other.    

 

Under the thick paint on the rods there may be a fairly nicely etched rod     (the pre-production rods were really nice etches, not sure about production ones), so strip the paint off, then decide on how to thin them.  

 

 

Swapping the wheels out with the Association shop wheels and bearings for "Farish conversions" works except for one of the muffs.   There is one which interferes with the idler gear, so the muff needs thinning down where it may touch the idler to incredibly thin (feels like wall thickness approaching 0.2mm....).  Bear in mind that the idler can move on its axle depending on direction of motion, so watch for catching in all directions.     
There has been a suggestion of replacing all the gears to solve the clearance issue, but I've not looked into it, so it is currently "just a suggestion"

 

 

I've got two converted to 2mm with a third waiting elsewhere to be converted.  One is on a pre-production chassis, the others are production chassis.  I've tried replacement 2mm wheels and turning down the N wheels.   The 2mm wheels look nicer, but its a lot of work on the muff clearance issue.  

 

 

Decoder is a custom CT, with an integral small tantalum stay-alive.    Out of the box it ought to run well (I spent long enough tweaking the prototype chassis+decoder, the production uses my settings), and will have the "uncoupler shuffle" on FunctionKey-2.    

 

 

Because of lack of spare parts,  I'd suggest "lower your track voltage" should go higher up your to-do list.   

 

 

- Nigel

 

Edited February 15 by Nigelcliffe

[Izzy]

Thanks for all that info @Nigelcliffe, that’s very helpful info for anybody with one of these. It’s such a shame CT are no longer around as I see it’s giving the NGS problems with trying to complete the orders it has for them. I am minded just to thin the flanges and leave it at that seeing as there is quite a bit of body overhang all around to help disguise the wheel width. Thinning them means faffing around with repeating the recess for those brass inserts. 

 

Yes, reducing the Prodigy output is being worked on. Though adding another CB isn’t at present given the last time I tried it the PSX duffed over the base station and I now understand Gaugemaster are no longer undertaking repairs of any kind with them so I don’t want to take the risk.

 

Bob

[Nigelcliffe]

11 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Thanks for all that info @Nigelcliffe, that’s very helpful info for anybody with one of these. It’s such a shame CT are no longer around as I see it’s giving the NGS problems with trying to complete the orders it has for them. I am minded just to thin the flanges and leave it at that seeing as there is quite a bit of body overhang all around to help disguise the wheel width. Thinning them means faffing around with repeating the recess for those brass inserts. 

 

 

The other factor is that after thinning the flange, the wheels still need to slide out on axles a little.  That makes them a little wobbly in the bearing blocks.  Look at whether turning the blocks round might help.  

 

Nigel

[Nig H]

On 05/01/2024 at 17:21, Nig H said:

More to follow soon.

 

Nigel Hunt

Maybe not so soon, but the last two coaches are now finished apart from weathering. I thought I'd mention one or two aspects of the construction in case its useful to others. Firstly, the bogies are secured with a 12 BA screw, with a washer soldered on the top. The hole in the bogie is slightly greater than the head of the screw, and the screw is held tight against the underside of the bolster.

 

 

I use a former as shown below to make the handrails that are attached to the ends of the coach. The various holes in the former are to cater for the different positions of the holes in the ends.

 

 

 

I use 5 amp fuse wire usually as its easy to bend round the edge of the profile. The wire is quite fragile and can get bent after being fitted, but its easily corrected back to the right shape.

 

For plastic roofs, I use 5 thou plasticard cut into thin strips (not more than 0.5mm wide) for the ribbing on the roof. Applying this reasonably accurately is a tedious exercise. The pic below shows two roofs ready for cleaning up, and the tools I use.

 

The wet and dry I use to sand the roof where my fingers have pressed down on pools of Mekpak, and to smooth the ribbing where it has split during application, causing the join to stick up slightly. Its also useful to try to reduce the thickness of the ribbing a bit, I think even 5 thou is probably over scale.

 

One of the coaches I'm doing is a Chris Higgs model. This includes a resin roof and I couldn't use the plasticard for the ribbing on this as it wouldn't adhere permanently. I used some Tamiya masking tape instead, cut into thin strips, again c. 0.5mm or less. The Tamiya tape was much easier to apply than the plasticard, and no cleaning up afterwards is necessary. Here is the result.

 

 

I'll post some pics of the finished coaches in the next post.

 

Nigel Hunt

[Nig H]

Here are some pics of the final two coaches. These are a Stanier composite from a Worsley works kit, and a Masterclass Stanier brake third. The composite is the last in a rake of four Stanier crimson-liveried coaches, and the brake third is to add to a rake of three maroon period 1 coaches built some time ago. One of the roofs in my previous post was a replacement for one I decided I didn't like on a coach built decades ago.

 

The crimson coach blended in well with the three already built.

 

 

The brake third should be the same colour as the original three period 1 coaches. These were painted and lined by Ian Rathbone, and I thought I used the same colour (LMS Crimson Lake) on the brake third. 

This pic was taken with flash and makes the main colour look very bright, almost like crimson rather than the intended maroon.

 

This is the rake of four. Sorry about the lack of focus but you can see that the liveries don't quite match.

 

 

One other point I noticed with the Masterclass coaches was that the door grab handle holes are spaced further apart ( c. 0.25mm - 0.5mm) than on the Worsley Works coaches. The Masterclass kit includes etched grab handles, which I used, but seem a bit chunky, though I tried filing them down a bit after soldering in place. I realise that parts like these probably need to be etched a bit over or not at all.

 

I think both kits can be made into reasonable models, depending on the skills of the builder, but a lot more thought has gone into the design of the Masterclass kit to make it easier to build, and I'd prefer it if I had a to choose between the two.

 

 Nigel Hunt

 

 

 

 

 

[MrSimon]

They look great Nigel!  What did you use for the roof section on the Worsley kits?

 

Many thanks 

Simon

[Nig H]

3 hours ago, MrSimon said:

They look great Nigel!  What did you use for the roof section on the Worsley kits?

 

Many thanks 

Simon

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks. I use Association plastic roofs, cut to length and thinned at the ends to something nearer the prototype appearance.

 

Nigel H

[tom s]

Somewhat mundane for a workbench post but after a month of 3D modelling and lots of sliding individual chairs along the Templot 3D models, finally threading some rail through a printed model for my first 2fs layout. 
I also made a compact version of the Turnout Blades Planing Jig on the right, with finger pressure and locating pins instead of nut and bolt. It also has some different height fulcrums to do Vee angles too.

Some black ink to show the chair detail. My 2K printer is outdated now but even my short-sighted eyes cannot see the layer lines. It took a few iterations to get the chair grip right but i am surprised none of them broke on the 30cm piece... still need to go looser for the next sections.

[Jan W]

Tom, those look wonderful and it’s almost unbelievable that one can produce such trackwork on a small printer at home!

One observation though: it seems the webbing between the sleepers is quite high, is there enough space to cover it in ballast?

 

Jan