Kings Cross Model Shop

[storthships]

While  working at Kings Cross I bought  a 4mm imported model of an LMS Jubilee.

It looks as though it is gold plated but it is probably lacquered shiny brass.  It is in a Blue Plastic Box. It has no makers name or any other identifying mark whatsoever.

However, it is fitted with nameplates. 5599 BECHUANALAND.b The tender even has a builders plate. No.9028.

Does anyone know who manufactured this ?

Tony Dyer

[coachmann]

While  working at Kings Cross I bought  a 4mm imported model of an LMS Jubilee.

It looks as though it is gold plated but it is probably lacquered shiny brass.  It is in a Blue Plastic Box. It has no makers name or any other identifying mark whatsoever.

However, it is fitted with nameplates. 5599 BECHUANALAND.b The tender even has a builders plate. No.9028.

Does anyone know who manufactured this ?

Tony Dyer

Hi Tony,

It was commissioned and imported by my late friend Johnny Walker (Britrail). Don't worry, a few were indeed gold plated while some were silver plated. They came in sprayed matt black so I had to strip the paint before priming them and starting again. This is how I came across the plating. Brian Brown at Westward Models used to unspring the chassis to make them decent runners seeing as the original springing was on the front and rear drivers! JW used to call in here with all sorts of bits and pieces that the Tiawans had produced for him (I've still got boxes of smokebox darts). If I fitted etched nameplates to any gold-plated ones I cannot remember at this distance in time, but overall I did paint a good many for him and other purchasers.

 

Cheers,

Larry G.

Edited February 2, 2014 by coachmann

[storthships]

Hi Larry,

 

Thank you so much for the info on the imported Jubilees.  Wow, do I actually own a gold plated model - are they worth anything.?

Should i remove the springing to improve running before i put it up for sale or should i leave it in its original condition which is normally the correct procedure.

I hope life is treating you kindly down in Abergele.  We had a golfing break last year playing Oswestry, Wrexham  and Llanyminoch (sorry-not too sure of the spelling.

Whilst there, I visited the Llangollen Rlwy Centre and walked across the aqueduct.  Altogether. a pleasant three days.

It is nice catching up with you on this fascinating web site.  Long may it continue.  Must get some more stories posted.

Kindest regards.

Tony

[coachmann]

Hi Tony, hope you are well.

Thing to check are the tube drive from the motor to the gearbox. Being a form of plastic it should be alright. The rubber tubes used to perish. Quite how Brian Brown made the chassis rigid I don't know. As produced they used to rock around the rigid middle drive axle. Being gold plated they must be worth something, not just for the metal but for curiously and rarity alone. I'll bet most gold plating is hidden under coats of paint.

 

The Jubilee's came in several varieties from dome-less to domed, but I cannot remember if the long firebox version was done. I painted some for Hong Kong including one for Royalty for the had-over of Hong Kong. 

Edited February 3, 2014 by coachmann

[Horsetan]

.....It is many years now since the passing of Cyril Freezer, editor at that time of the Railway Modeller. Nick hatched this plan and would put it to the test to see if it really would come off.    Nick brought up to the office a Private Owner wagon (not sure if it was 4mm scale or 7mm) that he had just constructed and planned to send it to Cyril for review in the magazine. It wasnt the wagon itself that was particularly interesting rather than the owners name. We chuckled when we saw it and said to him, `You will never get away with it`.

The wagon was duly sent down to Devon and if my memory serves me right, it was indeed published.  So what was so special about this name ?  It was beautifully lettered in the livery of now hard to find company called NORFOLK & GOOD.

Does anyone have an update on Nick Campling.

Regarding` Bulleid Bob` Brian, yes he must hold the record for the number of Kemilway BofB chassis that he constructed and indeed complete Bulleid pacifics made from the Airfix/Kemilway pairing. I know I was supplying Bob these chassis long after I left Kings Cross......

 

 

.....Tony, I do clearly remember the "Norfolk" incident, poor old Squirrel. Nick Campling has either been here on RMweb, or on our BRCS-yahoo coaching stock group (plug), but I haven't spotted him for awhile. What about when you and George Pring took your Kemilway chassis to Devon/Railway Modeller for review, it was said that Mr.Pritchard looked down on Squirrel and treated him like the office boy (allegedly!)?......

 

There is a story told to me by the late Nigel Downend (who ran The Booking Hall in Charlotte Place, W1) about Squirrel Freezer and his apparently uneasy relationship with Mr. Pritchard. This involved some fairly lengthy car journey in the heat of summmer that, I think, had Mr. Pritchard as the driver, and Squirrel as his passenger. Anyhow, at some point in the journey, Mr. P. partly winds down his window for ventilation. This made Squirrel a bit unhappy as it caused some sort of unequal pressure in his eardrums, so to alleviate this he rolled down his window by roughly the same depth as Mr. P. had. This now made the car too draughty for Mr. P's liking, and he promptly wound his window up, causing unequal pressure for Squirrel, who promptly wound his window up again.

 

The car then got too hot inside, so down went Mr. P's window, hotly followed by Squirrel winding his down, followed by....yes, you guessed it. The rest of the journey reportedly continued in this vein of constantly-moving windows.

 

As far as the Kemilway etched chassis design goes, it is a pity that there were so few in the range and that it all seemed to come to an abrupt end - I seem to recall that breach of copyright / piracy was a factor. I have a small stock of the Std.4 Mogul and Light Pacific chassis in a drawer, still usable, though needing a bit of modification for P4/S4 use. The compensated internal cradle idea was adopted by Crownline and is still perpetuated to this day by PDK in some of their kits. Peter K (Dawson) also put the system in his Adams Radial kit. Not everyone has come to terms with it.

 

A good number of Airfix/Kemilway "Light Pacifics" passed through the hands of Nigel Downend incidentally, and many of those also had been upgraded with Albert Goodall's detailing parts and overlays.

 

All gone now. Nigel himself passed away in about 2005, I think - I stumbled across a record of his death which was posted on the Internet. It said he had died in Pontefract.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Horsetan

[georgealan]

Hi All interested readers,

Through the good offices of Paul Bartlett, I have been introduced to RM Web and in particular, the Kings Cross Model Ship topic.

It has been great to be taken down that road again and be reminded of so many long forgotten names.

The one name that has not yet appeared and yet was such a good hard working member of that stalwart Kings Cross Staff is Robert Dudrenec.

I am in touch with Robert who now lives in Stratford -upon Avon.

When I (Tony Dyer) left KX in 1989, my wife and I moved up to South Lakeland to pursue what was becoming a new found interest. Namely hill walking in a lovely part of the country. I never worked full time again, but instead had a part time job working for a very successful outdoor equipment distributor. I still ran Kemilway with George Pring (who, yes was the George in George Allan Models) until his tragic death in the late 90`s. All Kemilway rights finished up with Peter Dawson of Peter K models who is still successfully trading.

I was not aware of the passing of Bert Collins. He was a great character and always good to be in his company.

I am very impressed with the amount of information imparted by Brian Kirby. His memory is brilliant and it shows in his very accurate descriptions of

anecdotes of which a whole book could be written of the comings and goings at Kings Cross.

Where are you Brian ?  I would love to hear from you and what you are doing in life today..

There were many great names that had associations with Kings Cross.  I remember a struggling modeller/turned manufacturer who graced his presence there always using his favourite word to describe the latest models -`Fabulous`. everything was fabulous. I cant remember the company he represented but he suddenly became very successful in the pop music business and he was away. Yes of course, Pete Waterman and still so much connected with railways.

So, here I am, just celebrated my 80th birthday. Sadly, my wife died in 2004 and I miss her dearly. However, I keep very busy. Play golf a couple of times a week. I still keep my hand in with railway modelling by servicing the nearly 100 locos that are owned by a very good friend of mine with probably one of the best layouts in existence that nobody has seen.

A lot of my time is now spent scanning and digitising the many thousands of slides that are in the care of the World Ship Society. They have probably the largest collection of ship photographs anywhere and is continually being added to as members pass away and their collection is bequeathed to the Society.

All in all, it keeps me out of mischief, occupies my time and I find it very rewarding.

Love to hear from anyone who knew me at Kings Cross. Good to hear about you also Adrian. Likewise, love to know where you are these days.

All good wishes.

Tony

Hi All....George Allan  should be George Alan...cheers

[georgealan]

Hi All....George Allan  should be George Alan...cheers

Sorry All .....that post seems a bit short and not cheerful. 

George Pring was indeed the George of George Alan (Models) Ltd of 10 Manor Road, London E10. I am the Alan ex of that address in the early 70s.

If anyone knows of any original kits going spare I would be please to be pointed in the right direction. I have nothing except one photograph and some magazine cuttings

 

It was Kings Cross Models that I made the very first sales of the 4mm lattice footbridge.On sale or return because at £4.99 I was told noone would buy them.

 

cheers Alan

[stewartingram]

If only I could get one now.....

 

 

Stewart

[5050]

Sorry All .....that post seems a bit short and not cheerful. 

George Pring was indeed the George of George Alan (Models) Ltd of 10 Manor Road, London E10. I am the Alan ex of that address in the early 70s.

If anyone knows of any original kits going spare I would be please to be pointed in the right direction. I have nothing except one photograph and some magazine cuttings

 

It was Kings Cross Models that I made the very first sales of the 4mm lattice footbridge.On sale or return because at £4.99 I was told noone would buy them.

 

cheers Alan

Am I right in thinking that my friend Robert Hunter was one of your first sales reps in the North?

[georgealan]

Am I right in thinking that my friend Robert Hunter was one of your first sales reps in the North?

We had a guy named Rob in the North, but cant recall surname. He drove a van which was a fully loaded mobile warehouse. He came down the M1 couple of evenings a week and met up with Tony Dyer with a vanful of replacement stocks. At that time we were operating out of Glasshill Street SE1, and we had become a wholesaler and carried many manufacturers products, including Humbrol which we had exclusive contract.

Thanks for the memory

[storthships]

Am I right in thinking that my friend Robert Hunter was one of your first sales reps in the North?

Hi 5050,

Yes you are right, Bob Hunter was our first sales rep. I remembered he lived in Wakefield, drove a VW yellow beatle and had, shall we say, not a good driving record.

I went to court in his defence and hoped my presence and good character reference did something to minimise the penalties for his driving offense.

Do say hello to him and if he wants to make contact,its        tony@storthships.plus.com.

Our second rep was Stephen Barnfield who I believe is still connected to the hobby and am I right in saying he paints professionally.

Tony

Edited February 5, 2014 by storthships

[georgealan]

Hi 5050,

Yes you are right, Bob Hunter was our first sales rep. I remembered he lived in Wakefield, drove a VW yellow beatle and had, shall we say, not a good driving record.

I went to court in his defence and hoped my presence and good character reference did something to minimise the penalties for his driving offense.

Do say hello to him and if he wants to make contact,its        tony@storthships.plus.co.

Our second rep was Stephen Barnfield who I believe is still connected to the hobby and am I right in saying he paints professionally.

Tony

T J D??????????

 

T J D??????????

Sorry AJD???????

[georgealan]

Hi All....George Allan  should be George Alan...cheers

Tony

 

Just properly read this forum and..well I just did not realise who was writing. Good to here you are still around and have a better memory than me. I have difficultly putting it all together nowdays. George, yourself, Dick Briton, Nee shipping, Photofab, Stephen Poole my shed in E10, then London Bridge, politicians and miner and unions. Busy time. I have just come back to the uk (retired) and living in Co Durham. I hope you have a good archive, I have one photo of the original bridge. I have spoken with Peter Dawson who told me some of Georges story, what a tragedy. He said he had some bits he will send me, which is very good of him.

cheers for now  

alan.whines@hotmail.com

[5050]

Hi 5050,

Yes you are right, Bob Hunter was our first sales rep. I remembered he lived in Wakefield, drove a VW yellow beatle and had, shall we say, not a good driving record.

I went to court in his defence and hoped my presence and good character reference did something to minimise the penalties for his driving offense.

Do say hello to him and if he wants to make contact,its        tony@storthships.plus.co.

Our second rep was Stephen Barnfield who I believe is still connected to the hobby and am I right in saying he paints professionally.

Tony

He later started the excellent MPD range of locokits but then lost interest in model railways, did a bit in steam preservation, renovated beer pumps - but his main interest these days is in brewing some excellent beer.

 

Are you sure his Beetle was Yellow?  I seem to remember it being Green but he might have changed it of course.

[2512silverfox]

Just been pointed in the direction of these posts.  Happy days!  Tony's memory is pretty good about the NORFOLK & GOOD wagon (it must be said in a Scottish accent to have full effect).  The original wagon was 7mm Slaters and was painted by me for Wally Mayhew's 7mm fine scale layout, but the idea was that of the Late Fred Newman who was something of a wag.  Building coaches for Ronne Hoare (the UK Ferrari Concessionaire) Fred once said, I think I would like a varnished teak Ferrari - Ronnie said No Problem - White roof I presume.

 

Greetings to Tony - I read the obits in the DT this morning and I am still here!

 

Nick Campling

[5050]

He later started the excellent MPD range of locokits but then lost interest in model railways, did a bit in steam preservation, renovated beer pumps - but his main interest these days is in brewing some excellent beer.

 

Are you sure his Beetle was Yellow?  I seem to remember it being Green but he might have changed it of course.

Been told today he did have a Yellow one - after the Green one which (so I've was told) ended up on its roof in a field.

[Brian Kirby]

I remember Johnny Walker, he had a slight international playboy air about him, perma-tanned, gorgeous wife, etc., and used to turn up three or four times a year, wearing an oversize sheepskin jacket, a nice chap. Wasn't he behind the import of the Swiss Fulgurex GWR Castles as well, but not the Kings? (The Kings were more of a KX enterprise, we need Dave Morris on here to confirm that, although Tony will probably know the background). Who imported the LMS Jap Crabs in the late 60s, i've seen a fair few now, but they were before my time? I do recall the problem with the flexible drives on some of these brass locos and a fair few crocks had to be repaired at KX. Another job that I was often singled out for, was removing excess paint and cleaning the wheels, especially on the tender, after they'd been painted by Alan Brackenborough, they always came back squeaky clean from our Larry. The tender locos used a split American-style pick-up, one side on the loco, the other side on the tender, this was their Achilles' Heel, since the tender wheels were forever getting dirty. 

 

Following these came two GWR tank designs (plus variations within class), the 57xx Panniers came from Japan in bright red boxes (can't remember the long trade name, yes we all know Rod Stewart had one) and the 45xx Prairies came from South Korea. The panniers were an absolute delight, beautifully built in burnished brass and ran silently like a dream, with delicately sprung axles and buffers. The Prairies on the other hand were not so good, they suffered from cold solder joints, badly fitted parts, a muddy lacquer finish and poor running. The latter was mostly caused by the daft pick-up arrangement, one side of the drivers, the other side on the trailing bogies, so pick-up on 2+3 wheels, the two collecting bogie wheels kept getting dirty, not good. The tanks all sold then, the good and the bad (there was no ugly) for around the £100-£130 mark in the early 80s. 

 

So Larry's got all the smokebox darts then? The one's i'm thinking of had nice bulbous handles, and we used to sell them in little square plastic sachets. There may have also been some other bits and bobs from this source, perhaps upright brake standards and finer handrail knobs? Somebody made scale working threaded screw couplings as well.

 

                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

[coachmann]

I remember Johnny Walker, he had a slight international playboy air about him, perma-tanned, gorgeous wife, etc., and used to turn up three or four times a year, wearing an oversize sheepskin jacket, a nice chap. Wasn't he behind the import of the Swiss Fulgurex GWR Castles as well, but not the Kings? (The Kings were more of a KX enterprise, we need Dave Morris on here to confirm that, although Tony will probably know the background). Who imported the LMS Jap Crabs in the late 60s, i've seen a fair few now, but they were before my time? I do recall the problem with the flexible drives on some of these brass locos and a fair few crocks had to be repaired at KX. Another job that I was often singled out for, was removing excess paint and cleaning the wheels, especially on the tender, after they'd been painted by Alan Brackenborough, they always came back squeaky clean from our Larry. The tender locos used a split American-style pick-up, one side on the loco, the other side on the tender, this was their Achilles' Heel, since the tender wheels were forever getting dirty. 

 

Following these came two GWR tank designs (plus variations within class), the 57xx Panniers came from Japan in bright red boxes (can't remember the long trade name, yes we all know Rod Stewart had one) and the 45xx Prairies came from South Korea. The panniers were an absolute delight, beautifully built in burnished brass and ran silently like a dream, with delicately sprung axles and buffers. The Prairies on the other hand were not so good, they suffered from cold solder joints, badly fitted parts, a muddy lacquer finish and poor running. The latter was mostly caused by the daft pick-up arrangement, one side of the drivers, the other side on the trailing bogies, so pick-up on 2+3 wheels, the two collecting bogie wheels kept getting dirty, not good. The tanks all sold then, the good and the bad (there was no ugly) for around the £100-£130 mark in the early 80s. 

 

So Larry's got all the smokebox darts then? The one's i'm thinking of had nice bulbous handles, and we used to sell them in little square plastic sachets. There may have also been some other bits and bobs from this source, perhaps upright brake standards and finer handrail knobs? Somebody made scale working threaded screw couplings as well.

 

                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

I think it was Peco that imported the 'Castles', originally as limited numbers. Johnny Walker imported the 'Kings'. I bought two for my bank manager then Johnny offered 25 to me for £80.00 each "to put in the attic". I couldn't afford a job lot like that. The Jubilees, Black Fives and some small batches of 8F's and Mucky ducks were in a different league and were not as substancial. The GWR Tanks were labelled 'RTR' or something. As well as smokebox darts, Johnny marketted tender axleboxes with springs and all the leaves were separate brass sheaves. It was lunacy and I suggested they be cast but he wouldn't hear if it. He had a very large engine too and threatened to bring it for painting behind a Land Rover. Every time he and his wife came over he chastised me for not buying Mrs coach a Mini! What a character.

Edited February 4, 2014 by coachmann

[mossdp]

Quite a large number of Fulgurex unpainted Kings and a smaller number of the BritRail Jubilees appeared from a single seller on ebay a few years ago. The seller explained to me when I asked how he had so many that he had bought large numbers when produced and they had sat in his loft for decades. For the modest sums they made, they must have been a terrible investment!

[roythebus]

^{Hi Adrian, nice to know you're still around!}

 

^{Yes it was I that produced the GS bus kit; the pattern were made by Mike Sheppard as were a few others. Some were made by Adrian, and a chap in saarf Lundun whose name escapes me, but he done patterns for Langley, and two by a firm in Iver or some where out that part of the world, Bailoy Products.It's a bit of a re-union here at the moment. I've still got one of the Kemilway 2-6-0s fitted with a Portescap motor, but lost some of the valve gear bits so it never did get finished!}

 

^{The original owner of Kings Cross was Keith Dann as I seem to remember mentioning in an early posting on here. He was killed in a car crash on the A1 at Biggleswade in about 1968, which is just before I started work at the place.}

 

^{My GS Models bus kits made enough money for my real buses to keep going and they're still doing so today. I've turned that hobby into my full time business and am now rebuilding a 1939 Bristol K5 ex Chatham & District with  Heritage Lottery Grant assistance. Also running an RML and my GS on wedding specials based in New Romney.}

 

^{Tony, do you still play music with Farandahl? Nice to know you are all still around.}

 

^{There was a separate thread on here about the imported Jap Crabs; someone said they couldn't say much more about that project due to legal reasons..the mind boggles. I know someone at the MRC was involved and started a firm called Maida Vale Models.}

Edited February 5, 2014 by roythebus

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Just resumed acquaintance with this thread, so interesting to read. Two kit/parts makers I don't think have yet been chewed over here are 3H -  wagon kits -  and MGW - very nice steel tyred wheels on stainless pinpoint axles supplied with these kits - both products I would be happy to find fresh supplies of. Managed to buy half a doz. of made up wagon kits with said wheels over the last couple of years. Fit them with parts from my diminishing stash of ABS detail castings, and they then join all the others I made previously; still looking well against the best RTR.

 

So, any information on the persons responsible, when and where type stuff?

Edited February 5, 2014 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[hmrspaul]

The 3 H that produced 4mm wagon kits was Roy Jackson and Doug Hewson. Roy, of course continues as a well known EM modeller and editor. Doug went 5inch and runs a company manufacturing kits for 5 inch wagons - a spectacular hobby - as seen perhaps at its best at Gilling http://www.rsme.org.uk/

 - the rake of Mark 1 coaches is by Doug.  His address is at http://the-hewsons.webs.com/

 

 

Currently he is publishing an account of his work in the HMRS newsletter - Points.

 

Paul Bartlett

Edited February 5, 2014 by hmrspaul

[Brian Kirby]

I'm pretty sure the 'M' and 'G' in MGW were Messrs Mayer and Gibson, who of course went on to found Maygib, before they later split. Can't remember whom the 'W' stood for, unless that was just 'Wheels"? At KX we used to nickname them "MG Wobblers", since the quality control didn't seem very strict. Luckily you could buy them loose, and test them in the shop for trueness. Often it was just a lateral wobble and being soft-centred, could be coaxed back into alignment, however if it was off-centre or "egg-shaped" it would be returned to the manufacturer.

 

Totally un-connected with this, and many years later, Dave King of Crownline started producing his own bogie and wagon wheels. They had much finer flanges, and i heard that they had a special "wheel-testing track", which consisted of a long slope with a 'Y' point halfway along. If a wheelset wobbled down the gradient, the button was pressed and the point changed, and the dud rolled into the reject siding. I never saw it,but i'm sure it's true. (Source: the late Nigel Downend, formerly of Crownline).

 

Brian.

[Brian D]

I've spent a good hour or so catching up on this thread,  A great nostalgia trip.  I remember visiting the York Way shop just once I think in the 60s sometime in my school days with a friend when we used to whizz round the London Termini, at least those still exhibiting steam locos.  I also remember Allen Brett Cannon at London Bridge - happy days, now so long ago.  Central and even Greater London is now, by comparison, a model shop waste land!

[2512silverfox]

Going back to MGW.  This partnership was Rod Maclaren, Alan Gibson and a chap called Webb whose first name I forget.  They worked out of a unit here in Colchester and their products were for a time at the forefront.  Their instability was renown and gained them, at least around here, the nickname 'Maclaren's Grotty Wheels'.

 

Alan went his own way and that is history, but Rod went on to buy 3H although nothing much seemed to come of it.