Kings Cross Model Shop

[Brian Kirby]

So i got the "M" wrong! Thanks for the correction Major Nick.

 

Cheers, Brian.

[adrianbs]

Hi  All  Bit off subject but nobody seems to mind,   NUCRO  /  ACRO.   Does anyone have the history of these two names.  They came and went before most

  of the other kit makers appeared.  I could never find out what happened  to them and who was involved.  There can't be many left now who are  old enough

  to have know  them first hand whilst they were still in business but they may have been involved in other activities afterwards.  Their products inspired me

  rather more than  K's or some of the other ranges of wagon kits.  When I arrived back in London in the early 60s I used to occasionally come across, and

  usually snapped up, their bogie  wagon  kits. They made wagon parts and coach bogies well before Kenline and Ks but although a few parts went into the

  Wills range they seem to have been  recasts of the originals.  

  

   I am not sure if Rex Kennedy was involved in the patten making but later the Wills/Kennedy bogies appeared which were also to a high

  standard but also were only around for a fairly short period.  I very clearly remember building a set of commonwealth bogies whist in Digs opposite the

  Star and Garter  in Putney and curing the Aradite over the Paraffin stove I had for heating. The smell of paraffin plus hot araldite was not very pleasant !!

  I later became well acquainted with these adhesives when working at BAC. and even made  a plastic injection mould from it for moulding a 7mm  SR

  3500 gallon tender axleguard. The mould disintegrated after about a dozen shots but the mouldings were  quite good, for their time !!  That was my first

  attempt at low cost  tooling for moulded plastic parts, I had more success later but used other methods. later.

             Better get to bed now     adrianbs

[coachmann]

 

  

.............I am not sure if Rex Kennedy was involved in the patten making but later the Wills/Kennedy bogies appeared which were also to a high

  standard but also were only around for a fairly short period.  I very clearly remember building a set of commonwealth bogies whist in Digs opposite the

  Star and Garter  in Putney and curing the Aradite over the Paraffin stove I had for heating. The smell of paraffin plus hot araldite was not very pleasant !!.............

    adrianbs

Wills Kennedy bogies were quite an advance in their time being two whitemetal side-frames riveted to a stainless steel stretcher. In other words, they were full sprung. I had an article on coach building in RM around 1964 and mentioned the coaches were awaiting these sprung bogies. They could easily be produced today although some modification would be necessary with todays pinpoint axles to prevent the sideframes from splaying out.

Edited February 6, 2014 by coachmann

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I'm pretty sure the 'M' and 'G' in MGW were Messrs Mayer and Gibson, who of course went on to found Maygib, before they later split. Can't remember whom the 'W' stood for, unless that was just 'Wheels"? At KX we used to nickname them "MG Wobblers", since the quality control didn't seem very strict. Luckily you could buy them loose, and test them in the shop for trueness. Often it was just a lateral wobble and being soft-centred, could be coaxed back into alignment, however if it was off-centre or "egg-shaped" it would be returned to the manufacturer...

 

That most likely accounts for why I got the entire remaining stock so cheaply at closure. I had gone in with a list for a fair quantity, about a third of the way down the list the suggestion was made 'why don't you have the lot?' and a price named that was little more than the total of what I had already asked for. They were all good too! Only ever got two 'wobblers', and they were in 3H kits so went back for exchange. One subsequent failure, just a few years back: a tyre split clean through. Still running, brazed up.

 

Going back to MGW.  This partnership was Rod Maclaren, Alan Gibson and a chap called Webb .. Rod went on to buy 3H although nothing much seemed to come of it.

At least it was good while it lasted. Still got all my LMS and LNE opens built from these kits in operation; only the most numerous common user general merchandise wagons built by the Big Four, and neither with a RTR model to this day.

[jwealleans]

I still buy and built the 3H kits when they come up - Cambrian have since covered the opens, but the older kits lose nothing by comparison.

[Brian Kirby]

I wouldn't wish to be too harsh on MGW wheels, when they first appeared they were excellent and a godsend. Up until then most modellers had to rely on the Jackson-Romford-K's variety with punched flat wagon and loco bogie spokes, and overlength 3/32" diameter axles with rounded ends. When MGW appeared we suddenly had 2mm x 26mm axles and pin-point bearings, a style that Jackson-Romford later switched to. It was only later that MGW quality standards tended to slip, although things did improve again towards the end, but by then the damage, reputation wise, had been done. Quality control was far better with the later Maygib and then Gibson coach/wagon wheels. Many people switched back to using Jackson-Romford coach wheels, when they changed to 26mm pin-points, they didn't have the greatest side profile, but they were incredibly reliable and consistent.

 

Before Jackson-Romford-K's changed to pin-points, they had also dallied with lightweight alloy Nucro wheels, which were very poorly received. No doubt they were a cost-cutting exercise, but most people, including myself, hated them with their bright shiny finish and lack of weight or substance. When the Maygib, then Gibson and revised brass JR14s appeared, everything was by now blackened, which is something not achieved by MGW, which left their tyres in plain mild steel. And there was me thinking, that after Boudicca's bonfire, everything in Colchester was blackened! :-) BK

[Enterprisingwestern]

AGW did disc brake wheels, a godsend for those of us modelling more modern times back in the 80's.

 

Mike.

[Il Grifone]

I never had any problems with MGW wheels and I seem to recall they were not expensive. I.m not keen on the modern fashion for blackened wheels - the real thing is shiny unless it' hasn't moved for a while, in which case it's rusty not black.

 

Most of my coaches run on Nucro/Jackson/K's wheels and a fair number of wagons on the 3 hole version. I think all the spoked ones (which run OK, but look awful have gone now...) Earlier examples of these had 27mm axles of approx. 1.9mm diameter - amenable to pin-pointing and reducing to 26mm.

[Brian Kirby]

Well actually David,

     You are quite right about the tyres, if in regular use, but the point was really that with unblackened MGWs you ended up with a permanently shiny rim facing you, which cried out for some black or dark rust paint. This is also a problem that afflicts modern RTR coaches and wagons, the manufacturers want to draw attention to the quality metal wheels supplied, so they leave them unpainted, which looks quite alien. If they blackened the wheels, some would think they look plastic, so it's a vicious circle of our own making, but at least it gives us a little task to elevate our models even further.

 

Back to the KX shop, one thing that always struck me on entering the place, was the smell. Nothing too nasty, just the aroma of carbon and ozone from all those old sparking motors. The smell was the same as going down the steps to the Underground, although LT could produce the smell in much greater quantities. Add to this the odour of various lubricating oils and greases, wax overheating in old transformers, leaking pots of model paint, thinners and glue, plus the inevitable pipe smoke and this all made a rather heady concoction. Even the books gave off a perfume, depending on how long they'd been there. The shop was bordered on both sides by restaurants, which emitted their own curious smells, but we could counter this with our electrical gear. We also got plagued with cockroaches passing between restaurants, and during a heavy downpour in York Way, the sewers would overflow, bringing lord knows what into our cellars, the water was certainly brown, but at least it drowned the cockroaches. Working there every day I suppose I got used to it, although the carbon smell subsided in later years with more efficient motors.               BK

[coachmann]

You drew a good picture there Brian. I think I can imagine it by comparing it with upstairs at Tyldsley & Holbrook on Deansgate, Manchester. In the 1950's it was a real harvest for modellers presided over by a portly gentleman always there to help with modelling matters. The place smelled of old wood, metal and tobacco and was chocker with 7mm scale and larger locomotives and rolling stock from another era. When I told him I was building a garden railway he sold me the galvanised rails, wooden sleepers, spikes, two Mills bakelite Stanier corridor coaches and a Hornby L1 4-4-0 plus some thin wood to convert the loco into something resembling an LMS 2P. Everything had been manufactured before the war and no one had heard of VAT so everything second-hand was cheap.

Edited February 7, 2014 by coachmann

[5050]

Some Acro and Nucro ads.

 

Did this 45xx kit ever appear?

 

 

Then the name changes -

 

 

And the Kennedy bogie -

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by 5050

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...MGW, which left their tyres in plain mild steel...

Could there be a better material? All of my older sets are self-rusted with most authentic appearance after extended use outdoors. The running surface of the tread stays bright. Those acquired subsequently take a few years to corrode nicely in the unheated outbuilding I now use for the layout.

 

I would be buying this product today were it still available, and have just had the happy thought that an old B12 (long ago withdrawn and in the scrap pile somewhere) was fitted with MGW bogie and tender wheelsets, and here's me with a new GER tendered B17...

[Arthur]

Fascinating stuff. Brass prohibited for use in loco kits, shortages of steel, we don't know how lucky we are.

 

That Acro coupler looks interesting, simple and discrete. Does anybody know how well they worked?

[The Stationmaster]

Fascinating stuff. Brass prohibited for use in loco kits, shortages of steel, we don't know how lucky we are.

 

That Acro coupler looks interesting, simple and discrete. Does anybody know how well they worked?

I think I might have one or two sets somewhere or other and still in their original packets - all I've got to do is try to find them  (like a lot of things which have been mentioned in this fascinating thread I've got some stashed away somewhere from closing down sales or when EAMES were having a good clearout - I have some 3H wagon kits, some ABS wagon kits and all sorts other oddments)

[coachmann]

The Nucro springing unit was the one I referred to earlier although it came attached to whitemetal sideframes labelled as Wills Kennedy Bogies in 1962-3. I had just started building coaches from Plastikard and was on the look out for decent bogies rather than using Triang Mk.I's! Another catalogue I used to drool over was that from ERG.

Edited February 7, 2014 by coachmann

[Brian Kirby]

I wonder if the later "Sprat and Winkle" coupling was inspired by the Acro, they seem similar? Most of us were aware of the steel shortage after WW2, but I never realized that it extended to brass (with the draconian word "prohibited"), perhaps it came under precious metals for the export drive? That bogie tank wagon still looks pretty good for sixty years ago, many thanks for scanning the old ads. Converting a SR L1 to a LMS 2P using thin wood is certainly pioneering stuff, i can't recall the Bakelite Stanier coaches, although they no doubt passed through KX secondhand, how good were they? I saw a wooden Ratio kits Class 114 DMU (Derby Heavyweight) once, it made MTK look good!

 

Lastly, i'm getting confused. Were the original Acro/Nucro wheels made from aluminium alloy, due to the aforementioned metal shortage? Why did we refer to the Jackson-Romford alloy wheels as "Nucro" in the late 70s/early 80s, before they went back to using brass? The same alloy bogie/trailer wheels found their way into the later "K's" kits, was there a connection or previous takeover? Perhaps the "cro" part of the name suggests a Chromium alloy?

 

                                                                Brian.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Fascinating stuff. Brass prohibited for use in loco kits, shortages of steel, we don't know how lucky we are...

 

 

Must have been a relatively short term prohibition, as sheet metal kits were back in full swing by the end of the fifties, Jamieson product for example some of which started out in brass.

 

That Acro coupler looks interesting, simple and discrete. Does anybody know how well they worked?

I'll stick my neck out here, and say that as drawn it is going to be a failure as a remote uncoupler. Look at the plan drawing, and the width of the material that forms the oblique 'dropper' down to rail level, compared to the lenght and width to the attachment point which is where the movement has to occur. That dropper has to deflect the loop downwards (presumably by track magnet) to clear under the fixed wire hook. Since the dropper is a quarter the width and over three times the length of the section between it and the attachment point, well over 90% of the deflection will occur in the dropper, and even with the lever advantage of the loop , I doubt the small deflection available will move it down far enough.

 

The solution is simple, reshape the dropper so that it is vertical, and cut out a section of the fixed material between the dropper and the attachment point to make it bend more readily.

 

I think I might have one or two sets somewhere or other and still in their original packets - all I've got to do is try to find them  (like a lot of things which have been mentioned in this fascinating thread I've got some stashed away somewhere from closing down sales or when EAMES were having a good clearout - I have some 3H wagon kits, some ABS wagon kits and all sorts other oddments)

Permit me to come and beat your door down for the 3H items especially...

[5050]

Someone mention Bakelite coaches?

 

 

If these weren't Bakelite then what were they?

 

The windows don't appear to be 'see through'.

[5050]

The Nucro springing unit was the one I referred to earlier although it came attached to whitemetal sideframes labelled as Wills Kennedy Bogies in 1962-3. I had just started building coaches from Plastikard and was on the look out for decent bogies rather than using Triang Mk.I's! Another catalogue I used to drool over was that from ERG.

The Nucro unit seems to be made from sheet material whereas the Kennedy bogie in the advert appears to use wire or similar.  Did the design change to make use of the Nucro/Acro unit later?

[adrianbs]

Hi  5050,  Thanks for that contribution on Acro/Nucro/Wills,   Those are the adds I used to come across in old issues of magazines I found in  

 places like Lens of Sutton.  I still cannot fathom out the connections however, nor those involved, apart from Bob Wills himself.  Nucro seems

 to have still been operating alongside Wills although I assume Acro became Nucro somehow.  The wheels on the Nucro bogies were in brass

 on the examples I have but not quite the same profile as Romfords.  I have one of the ICI tankers and two or three each of the NER Quad

 bogie bolsters and GWR Crocodile H bogie well wagons. The latter are nearly as good as the Mainline one. They also made wagon solebats

 and other components besides those listed.  The Wills wagon kits came along in about the early 50s but by 1961 when I was in London they

 seem to have disappeared apart from odd ones in shops.  The early Wills catalogue I have, shows all the coach and wagon parts which I

 think may have been derived from the wood body coach kits by Ratio and CCW plus all the Kennedy bogies. The suspension on the

 latter of which I had a few is quite different to the Nucro version. It comprised 3 Nickel silver plates. 2 fitted into slots at the rear of the side.

 either glued or solder giving a compensating box and the third bent down at the ends to act as springing.   I have never seen any other

 version but since I have seen so few the design may have changed or people may have fitted Nucro units to Wills bogie sides.

        Regards  adrianbs

 .

[coachmann]

The Nucro unit seems to be made from sheet material whereas the Kennedy bogie in the advert appears to use wire or similar.  Did the design change to make use of the Nucro/Acro unit later?

It think it must have done. The Bakelite 7mm scale LMS coaches I referred to were of that material, produced pre-war. I was 16yrs old when I got them using my new income from working at the nearby Calico Printers. 

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

Permit me to come and beat your door down for the 3H items especially...

They are going no where, no way - stashed long ago for a future project which has not yet been forgotten

 

Now Nucro wheels - when I started buying the wagon wheels in the early- mid '60s they were steel but they changed over to what appeared to be aluminium for some reason, possibly cost or production reasons but they were far worse than the steel ones.  Somewhere or other I have a couple of K's wagon kits fitted with Nucro wheels running in Peco brass bearings - I must have been able to see straight back then as the bearings were soldered into enlarged holes at the back of the moulded axleboxes and the wagons ran quite true without any sort of wobbles, I can still remember the fun of soldering in 4 bearings and putting in the wheels as the wagon was soldered together.  Only connection with this thread is the manufacturer names and the fact that the bits came from EAMES - back in the days before David Morris went toddling off to KX, briefcase in hand everyday.

[adrianbs]

Hi All again.  I have just checked my Nucro  ICI tanker and the wheels are definitely not steel but brass and appear original, being the same as the other wagons

  I have.  Whether or not they were made by  Frank at Romford  or elsewhere I don't know.  The change over to Aluminium wheels must have been in the early '70s

  as my kits started with  brass Romfords. The ali wheels were a disaster and so I set up to make our own all plastic wheels with pinpoint axles at 26mm. The  

  Romfords  still had the longer axles without points.until they reverted to brass. I must admit that I called the wheels "Jacksons" for years and still do occasionally,

  perhaps Romford  were always the source or perhaps took the production over when Nucro disappeared. So where did Jackson come in ??

 

 The Coachcraft models intrigued me but I have never even seen one.  I was told that they were press formed plastic sheet. If anyone knows more it would be nice

 to hear.

 

 LMC's  2 Bakelite coaches plus their Box van and "POW" mineral appeared just before the war but as far as I know were never reissued. They were very fragile

 and although they were of a similar standard to the recent MTH LMS coaches were alas far too short and very very difficult to kitbash by making 4 into 3. It was so

 very easy to finish up with bits breaking off and even modern adhesives don't seem to like Bakelite as I found when trying to make 2 damaged vans into an LMS

 6 wheel fish van !!. Fortunately I had recourse to some industrial grade Epoxy at BAC and it is still in one piece.

        Looks like there is still a lot of history to be unearthed,  regards all  adrianbs

[coachmann]

Johnny Walkers (he who imported brass Kings, Jubilees, Black Fives etc)  Britrail components........smokebox handles...

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by coachmann

[Brian Kirby]

There's a blast from the past, and i was thinking of smokebox darts in tiny clear plastic sachets, they must have been from yet another supplier? Yet seeing the white box above does strike a chord, weren't these tiny little boxes, about half-an-inch across? Some memories are a bit hazy, well it was 30+ years ago. Thanks for digging out and snapping.

 

As an afterthought, are the darts in plastic sachets inside the white boxes? If so, we must have removed them from the boxes in the shop.

 

Adrian's black plastic wheels on steel axles were nicely made and came separately in his regular wagon kit size bag, as well as becoming standard in his wagon kits. Alas at KX we never seemed to sell many of these wheels, not helped by us keeping them tucked away in stock boxes, as opposed to hanging on display. Rightly or wrongly, we found that customers nearly always preferred the metal-tyred alternatives, often citing that plastic tyres collect more dirt (true or false?). Perhaps one of the best sellers in the A.B.S. whitemetal range were the two types of Gresley coach bogies (standard and heavy-duty), we sold these in great multiples for completing or upgrading other kits, reaching a climax with the release of George P and Tony D's (Kemilway) Gresley steel non-corridor stock, where the A.B.S. bogie was always the first choice. Despite increasing orders, we could sell out of bogies in days, with only the BSL as the alternate option, then we had to wait until the white Granada could chug back up the M3 with fresh supplies. Another issue was that half of the Kemilway LNER coach range was articulated, and people only needed an odd number of bogies. whereas they were naturally bagged in pairs! BK

Edited February 7, 2014 by Brian Kirby