RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2011 There is something about the BILS -I think its the cabs -they look like they were designed as a whole, not just a modified Mk1-a very early design to be sure but with a certain elegance to it--What say you (or indeed anybody else..) As an "anybody else" I concur that the pre-war electrics had something their more modern replacements lacked. As a very young child in the early '50s, if I went to London with Dad we went in a 4-SUB to Waterloo (he had a season ticket, and "London SR" didn't even exist then, still less "London Terminals") while if I travelled with Mum we would be in a posh Cor-Buf-Cor to Victoria. One day Mum and I went to Reigate on the bus and somehow ended up at the station, watching the trains. My first sight of a 2-BIL, and its neatness and "2-car-ness" really appealed. A short electric train that shunted from one platform to the other was fascinating! Not many years later, a small exhibition layout in Brockham village hall had an automated layout featuring the same thing - a 2-BIL shuttling in and out of the platform, while the steam loco just sat silent and motionless in the yard. 2-HAPs, 2-EPBs, 456s, 466s each have their attractions, but the 2-BIL remains the original and best for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 the Rickenbacker looks deperately lonely,I dare not look at the rest........ ATB Nick At risk of getting the whole topic bounced , what model Ricky?? Cheers from boiling WA Peter C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The BIL is a bit of an anomaly, but I did travel on them as a child too. Colin Hi Colin You could always give it a full yellow end numbered 2090 and build a 4SUB to run with it, the only time I have ever travelled in a 2BIL. Ian(also in West Wales) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Colin You could always give it a full yellow end numbered 2090 and build a 4SUB to run with it, the only time I have ever travelled in a 2BIL. Ian(also in West Wales) The Southern Electric Group organised a railtour with the 2-Bil and 4-Sub and this went to Newhaven Paul R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainset1 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Nick, The BIL is a bit of an anomaly, but I did travel on them as a child too. Colin Colin, You could always repaint the BIL again, this time into BR blue They lasted into the summer of 1971 in this condition. Shame to think of such a nice model staying in its box Regards, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Colin-A thought occurs R.E the 4 car units and difficulty of assembling on site..-Now memory suggests that your fiddle yard has both cassette & traverser access-was mulling this over the other night in the pub whilst watching a couple of laddoes playing pool (stay with me here....) they both had cue cases-very long &narrow-the penny dropped (clink) -I`m sure that some sort of carry case could be arranged to fit around a cassette to contain a ready to roll 4cep-just unclick the latch,lift off the cover and away to go.... Would only need a little 3-ply ,some foam lining and a bit of piano hinge on one side to release the tension...... Just a thought , hope it is of interest ATB Nick A good idea Nick. I have two spare cassettes, so loading one up with the CEP ready to go is probably what I will do in future. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 As Ianwales and trainset1 have said, the BIL could be re-painted. It has occurred to me that I could run Newhaven H. back dated to around 1969-71. In post 78 Karabuni (my brother) gives details of stock berthed or seen in the area in 1969. The list includes 4 x 2BILs berthed at Seaford. I wonder if anyone knows whether any BIL made it to withdrawal in green with full yellow ends? One photo of a green BIL paired with a blue one going over the London Road viaduct at Brighton seems to suggest this. Back-dating to the very early seventies would then allow me to run 4 COR 3142 (most certainly photographed at Seaford) and the 08, D3220 (in blue but with red coupling rods), which was definitely at Newhaven. Hmm. Will have to think about this. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 The Southern Electric Group organised a railtour with the 2-Bil and 4-Sub and this went to Newhaven Paul R I have seen a video of that trip on the web somewhere Paul. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickinwestwales Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Colin-delighted to be able to make a useful contribution..... ATB Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickinwestwales Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Colin-please excuse this complete digression,but I was raised to believe that when asked a question one should always reply-politely W.A Pete-Mapleglo 4001 bass,I use the name Rickenbacker as a generic handle-this particular beast came out of the Maya production line in KOBE prior to the earthquake and is the only one i have ever seen-It is a Rick in every aspect except for the single truss rod -for sound think the red Rick with the T-Bird front pick up that Lemmy used on the Space Ritual album with Hawkwind-it has that grunt & roar....Sasha-my babe-I paid £200 for her back in 1978 and still consider it money well spent-she still sings ATB Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 It has occurred to me that I could run Newhaven H. back dated to around 1969-71. In post 78 Karabuni (my brother) gives details of stock berthed or seen in the area in 1969. The list includes 4 x 2BILs berthed at Seaford. I wonder if anyone knows whether any BIL made it to withdrawal in green with full yellow ends? One photo of a green BIL paired with a blue one going over the London Road viaduct at Brighton seems to suggest this. Colin Green with full yellow ends was a fairly common 2BIL livery with 35 units recorded out of 152 units. The yellow was applied in two versions- one with just the front painted yellow (on 16 units) whilst the other variation saw the yellow carried round as far as the leading edge of the driver's door (on 19 units). By contrast 38 units carried blue with full yellow ends. No units were recorded in blue with small yellow panels. I have the following 2BIL units recorded as carrying green with full yellow ends: Prototype Batch (2001-2010) 2003/05/10- yellow fronts only 2009 had the yellow wrapped round as far as the leading edge of the driver's door. Portsmouth No 1 units (2011-2048) 2026/28- yellow fronts only 2011/21/38/48- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2021 subsequently carried blue with full yellow ends. Portsmouth No 2 units (2049-2116) 2055/57/58/65/78/79/113- yellow fronts only 2050/53/56/60/74/83/93/96/116- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2058 subsequently received blue with full yellow ends. Note: 2090 never carried green with full yellow ends in service, whilst 2074 was the last 2BIL to run in green up to April 1971. Reading units (2117-2152) 2137/51- yellow fronts only 2121/30/41/46/47/50- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2137/41/47 subsequently carried blue full yellow ends. The above information comes from a document detailing the transition from green to blue on SR units prepared by John Atkinson and available on SEmG based on information gathered from observation and the paint dates n the unit. If you require anymore details on other units then please let me know and I'll be glad to help where I can. EDIT: To correct the date for 2074 as the last 2BIL in green. Changed from April 1972 to April 1971. Sorry had a blonde moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is it heresy for this olde ghytt to say that green without yellow of any sort on the ends looks even better? Forgive me - it's my age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is it heresy for this olde ghytt to say that green without yellow of any sort on the ends looks even better? Forgive me - it's my age! Hi Oldddudders, I'm not going that far back - I would have to have steam engines and lattice-post signals! Mid-1969 is far enough. Meanwhile, here is a picture of something that could never have happened c.1974. I can't swear that one of these has never been past the signal box though: Not mine, I hasten to add, this beast belongs to my good friend Simon ( who has made a very fine job of the weathering). These locos certainly did run to Hastings in the nineties, hauling Rudds and such like. A sound fitted, DCC one would be very tempting! But I don't think I will go 'forward in time' on the layout for the same reasons already given above. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Finally, the new arrival to the stock list makes onto the layout. I hope dasatcopthorne approves of the position of that black triangle. I really wanted the motorman's hands to be resting on a dead man's handle in the cab. But, having him glued to a seat on the chassis it would have been hard to get the body off. Oh well. maybe next time I'll have him glued to the cab partition! The last one is trick shot by my standards. The new HAP leaves the station. The TTAs in the background are standing in one of the sidings fitted with magnetic uncoupling areas (now increased to five magnets, equalling 2" of effctive field). The idea is that a wagon at each end of a train will have the activating dropper, so locos can be released. I have also fitted all the brake vans with droppers at each end. They could then be swapped end for end for a train's return journey. There will have to be a running session to prove it all works. Some uncoupling will be about 6 feet away from the operator's postition, so there will need to be something to indicate the place to stop. This is not easy on a layout operated from the front. For a back-operated layout it would be quite straightforward to mark the inside face of the rails with white paint. That is not an option, so another thing on which to ponder.. The next job on the list is to make sure the traverser is absolutely reliable - as Nickinwestwales can testify, it was a bit sloppy last time "out". Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Was that info I spent time gathering and typing on the green 2BILs of any use Colin? The 2HAP looks very nice too. A number of livery options are available for these (SR design) units too- five units in green with full yellow ends and four units in blue with small yellow panels. Additionally if you include the BR 2HAPs there were a further eleven units in green full yellow ends and thirteen in blue small yellow panels. Last green (i/c FYE)was 6160 until c.May 1971. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil C Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Some really good photos in this thread. Vey much enjoyed viewing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Green with full yellow ends was a fairly common 2BIL livery with 35 units recorded out of 152 units. The yellow was applied in two versions- one with just the front painted yellow (on 16 units) whilst the other variation saw the yellow carried round as far as the leading edge of the driver's door (on 19 units). By contrast 38 units carried blue with full yellow ends. No units were recorded in blue with small yellow panels. I have the following 2BIL units recorded as carrying green with full yellow ends: Prototype Batch (2001-2010) 2003/05/10- yellow fronts only 2009 had the yellow wrapped round as far as the leading edge of the driver's door. Portsmouth No 1 units (2011-2048) 2026/28- yellow fronts only 2011/21/38/48- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2021 subsequently carried blue with full yellow ends. Portsmouth No 2 units (2049-2116) 2055/57/58/65/78/79/113- yellow fronts only 2050/53/56/60/74/83/93/96/116- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2058 subsequently received blue with full yellow ends. Note: 2090 never carried green with full yellow ends in service, whilst 2074 was the last 2BIL to run in green up to April 1972. Reading units (2117-2152) 2137/51- yellow fronts only 2121/30/41/46/47/50- wrapped round yellow (as per 2009) 2137/41/47 subsequently carried blue full yellow ends. The above information comes from a document detailing the transition from green to blue on SR units prepared by John Atkinson and available on SEmG based on information gathered from observation and the paint dates n the unit. If you require anymore details on other units then please let me know and I'll be glad to help where I can. Many thanks for all the information Natalie. Sorry for not replying before now. I somehow missed your post yesterday. The lists are pretty comprehensive. I can make more sense of some of the photos now. All the best, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Was that info I spent time gathering and typing on the green 2BILs of any use Colin? The 2HAP looks very nice too. A number of livery options are available for these (SR design) units too- five units in green with full yellow ends and four units in blue with small yellow panels. Additionally if you include the BR 2HAPs there were a further eleven units in green full yellow ends and thirteen in blue small yellow panels. Last green (i/c FYE)was 6160 until c.May 1971. Hi Natalie, as I say in the other reply all that you have stated will be of interest. I swear that at least four posts were not showing when I posted the most recent pictures today. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickinwestwales Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Colin-Straight off the top shelf mate..!! -It even smells right :-that mix of grease ,ozone & I don`t know what (the French have a phrase for it ,but with the 6 nations looming.....) -Excellent work-called Missisnick in to have a look & she didn`t believe it was a model (I`m still not entirely convinced myself)...Right,I`m off to buy a starter pack of stamps from Stanley Gibbons and embrace a less demanding hobby ATB Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks Colin response appreciated! I do have details for the green/blue schemes of other units - including the COR/BUF/RES/GRI family- you may find these useful if you were to turn your hand to a 'Nelson' hint hint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hi Colin, Truly excellent, looking forward to seeing them at Nottingham. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hi Colin, Truly excellent, looking forward to seeing them at Nottingham. Cheers, Ian Hi Ian, See you at Nottingham. Your advice about fixing the flush-glazed windows on the HAP with varnish has made all the difference. I now feel confident of the units lasting the show weekend without anything falling out! Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Colin-Straight off the top shelf mate..!! -It even smells right :-that mix of grease ,ozone & I don`t know what (the French have a phrase for it ,but with the 6 nations looming.....) -Excellent work-called Missisnick in to have a look & she didn`t believe it was a model (I`m still not entirely convinced myself)...Right,I`m off to buy a starter pack of stamps from Stanley Gibbons and embrace a less demanding hobby ATB Nick Hi Nickinwestwales, Re. what the French would say: 'Je ne sais quoi', je pense Nick! Actually, what the French do say about the real Newhaven Port, when they arrive on the ferry these days is: 'Why have they still not repaired the war-damage?' (sic) The whole quay area is so dilapidated now, and from neglect, not bombing, that the ferry company is threatening to pull out. I haven't modelled those bits. You've seen the layout, it is just models stuck on four bits of plywood! Salut, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edubs Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I've been quietly following this thread, I used to live in Newhaven and I have always been fascinated by the railways in the area, I like what you have done here very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I've been quietly following this thread, I used to live in Newhaven and I have always been fascinated by the railways in the area, I like what you have done here very much. Hi edubs, I was training at Bevan-Funnell's furniture factory on Beach Road, Newhaven, in the the seventies 1975-79, so could observe the railway every day. In fact, I would be mooching about the sidings at weekends from about 1973. Many thanks for the compliment - just keep quiet about what Newhaven really looks like! Coincidentally, I found a photo copy of the track plan of the East Quay/Harbour stations today. There were a lot of railway tracks by the harbour, even up to the 1970's. The Harbour station (now called Newahven Marine) scales out at about 28ft plus the beach sidings to the south. Plus even more with the old 'Harbour Hotel' station ('Newhaven Harbour' now) immediately to the north. So what you see here are some model buildings and scenes that hark back to the seventies, as I remember them, but necessarily in order. There never could have been space for 12-car boat trains and Grampus trains some 30 wagons long on my model (Oh, how I wish there could!). As I have said elsewhere on RMweb, in Nottingham show > Errors and Omissions to be precise: "Its an error to think the layout bears a resemblance to the real railway at Newhaven and I have omitted the harbour altogether"! Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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