Blanking plates for removed ventilators on Toplight roofs

[Miss Prism]

Forgetting for a moment the nice mid-period Star with a classic 'mixed milk and parcels', look at the foreground roofs.

 

The carriage roof in complete view is a Toplight, showing per-compartment blanking plates along the same axis of the remaining ones, but with a strange series of three in the middle of the coach, so I'm not quite sure whether this is a brake 3rd or a brake compo.

 

The coach in the near foreground feels like a Toplight, but I'm not quite sure (note the toplights adjacent to each other). Not only are the blanking plates on the other side of the roof, there are plates down the centreline of the roof, which is redolent of the strange gear some of the Dreadnoughts had on their roofs in early days, but I'm fairly certain it's not a Dreadnought because an inset vestibule door would be visible at the end of the coach.

 

http://www.warwicksh...wr/gwrls891.htm

[Coach bogie]

The blanking plates on the foreground vehicle are from the, as built, gas lighting and were required when the gas fittings were removed and converted to electric lighting. The centre blank covered the gas lamp and the far blank a second ventilator. Extra ventilation was required due to oxygen absorbed by the gas burners. It is unlikely to be a diner as one can seen third from the engine. Corridor side is shown (water tank position and lavatory ventilator position). The combination of ex gas fitted and two toplights over the leading corridor window suggests it could be one of the Concertinas. Sadly not enough image to show the first door. The style on most of the gas lit pre 1910 builds was only one toplight over the leading corridor window. This became two on later builds but electric light fittings from new had become standard for mainline stock by then. Of the few views from above, these blanking plates were common on Dreadnougt and Concertinas from the 1920's as the the GWR attempted to eliminate gas lighting from express stock.

 

The next vehicle has blanking plates due to the removal of one of the ventilators. As built it was common on toplights to have two ventilators to a compartment but this was reduced to just one. Oddly enough this one appears to have no ventilator at all in compartment six from this end. It appears to be steel sided 70ft, 9 compartment corridor stock. In my opinion it is either an E 93 or E102.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[martinT]

Yes Mike, I'm sure the nearest coach is a Concertina. Toplights had all the vents in a line above the CL of the compartments, 1 above each seat & thus offset from the coach CL, as on the 2nd coach. On the other hand Concertinas (& Dreadnoughts) had the 2 vents of each compartment arranged side by side, equi-distant from the coach CL, & thus offset from the compartment CL,as on the nearest coach.

 

Oddly enough, looking at diagrams in Russell Coaches vol 2, later coaches built with only 1 vent/cpt still seemed to have the vent above a seat, rather than centralised above the compartment between the doors. Even odder seems to be the arrangent of vents on non-compartment coaches. See the diags for E131 & D98 on pp 140 & 142 of Russell vol2. The vents are still offset (1'-2 3/4") from the coach CL & above a seat rather than between the doors? Why this determination to avoid putting vents on the CL of the coach? Was it perhaps to allow an unobstructed path for someone having to walk along the roof?

 

Martin Tester

[Adrian Wintle]

I was wondering whether there might be a structural reason for not putting the vents on the c/l, maybe a rib down the centre of the roof structure?

 

Even the first Colletts were drawn with two ventilators per compartment. Whether they were built that way, I don't know (works photos in Russel tend to show only one). It may be that it was easier to take the drawing and put an X through the ventilators to omit, rather than re-drawing with the ventilator in the centre of the compartment, or it may be that there was already something in the centre (lighting?).

 

Adrian

[Coach bogie]

The compartment wall extended up to the roof line (with cut out for corridor) to which the roof wood was attached. The pre 1930 GWR coach roof was made from 'offcuts' of wood of no uniform length. They were going to be covered in canvas anyway and it was a way of using up materials, what would otherwise be sold to staff as firewood.

 

Open stock were fitted with two longitudinal roof spars at approx 1/3 of the arc with crossway spars linking it all together and the roofing attached. See internal pics of dining cars.

 

I assume the reluctance to any centre line fittings is that staff were required to walk on the roff at depots etc. The centre line is both the strongest and safest point to walk. Centre line hand rails were there to help, but ventilators etc would be a hazard and even in pre health and safety days, the GWR were very accident averse and went out of their way to prevent accidents. With gas lamps there was a need for fitting on the centre line to enable all the hot gasses to escape and not suffocate the passengers as any hot gas will collect at the highest point.

 

Several published images, GWR Company Servants, Great Western Miscellany series show coach construction at various periods.

 

With the twin ventilators, with the electric light era, there was no need for two. It was suggested to me once, that plans show two out of force of habit as this was the way coaches had always been done since the time of Churchward, with common sense prevailing when it came to costing the construction.

 

With regards to position of twin ventilators on Dreadnaught and Concertinas, as built with gas fittings, some photographs show vents either side of the gas lamp. There will be variations as always, as electric lights replaced gas fittings to many Dreads. and Conc. pre WWI, when two side by side vents were still being fitted as the norm.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Miss Prism]

Even the first Colletts were drawn with two ventilators per compartment. Whether they were built that way, I don't know (works photos in Russel tend to show only one). 

 

I'm not disagreeing, but this was interesting (Kingswear, probably mid-30s):

 

[Devo63]

The Collett 70' South Wales bow-ended stock were fitted with two ventilators per compartment from new in the early 1920's (fake panel paint scheme). It appears that the 2nd vent was removed during various shoppings in the mid to late 20's when repainted in the simplified livery.  I have not found any photos of these with two vents post 1930 (someone will now find a pic and prove me wrong).

 

Dave R.