GWR & BR(WR) Modellers opinion sought!

[Coach bogie]

Era 3 for me concentrating on 1930-39 but it does not stop me rewriting history. You will still see the Great Bear and a pair of DeGlehn's still at work. The preserved City of Truro is already running railtours in the mid 30's -the newly opened York museum will have to wait a little longer for their GWR prize exhibit.

 

I also have my 'funny' trains. A gas turbine will suddenly appear on a set of Hawksworths, two warships on 1960 a CRE, a Dean single on the 1897 Royal Train. I do havea rule for my 'funnies' of loco/stock matching, but apart from that, I am quite happy to see other trains running. (I have an 8 year old who likes to run his Pendolino on Dads layout and I am not going to discourage his interest in the hobby)

 

The buildings, track layout, signalling are clearly set in my chosen period and, most of the time, the locos and stock conform to the 30-39 window, but I still enjoy seeing trains from outside my chosen period. It's a hobby and I try not to take things too seriously.

 

Now where did I put that streamlined Coronation?

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Adrian Wintle]

So just to recap as i'm a bit confused with the loco liveries :

 

'GREAT crest WESTERN' 18xx - 1934

Shirtbutton 1934 - 193?

 

what went in here?

 

GWR 1942 - 194?

G crest W 194? - BR

 

If someone could fill in the blanks?

 

thanks

 

In relatively simple terms... :laugh:

 

To start with, there are effectively 4 crests that were used on locos:

 

intertwined GWR - used around the turn of the century http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieslocopre1906.html

garter crest http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesgarter.html

twin shield http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoat.html

shirtbutton http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesbutton.html

 

In terms of usage post-1922:

 

Express/lined locos: Great <garter crest> Western

Goods/unlined locos: Great Western

 

From 1927, the garter crest was replaced by the twin shield, with the lettering remaining the same

 

From 1934 the shirtbutton logo was carried with no other lettering.

 

From 1942 express/lined locos got G <twin shield> W, while goods/unlined locos got G W R.

 

Then BR came along...

 

See also http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveries.html

 

Adrian

[Ian Smith]

Definitely Era 2 for me. I love the copper capped chimneys and brass work on the dark green engines. I also prefer the chocolate and cream with black mouldings on the coaches. And finally my own preference is for the baulk road trackwork as it looks so very different.

[Ozexpatriate]

So just to recap as i'm a bit confused with the loco liveries :

 

'GREAT crest WESTERN' 18xx - 1934

Shirtbutton 1934 - 193?

 

what went in here?

 

GWR 1942 - 194?

G crest W 194? - BR

 

If someone could fill in the blanks?

 

thanks

Have a look at one of the nicest online references for GWR liveries.

 

The liveries on tender engines went something like this:

 

1900 - 1904 Monogram, lined middle chrome green, indian red frames and splashers, <garter crest> on splashers

1904 - 1906 GREAT <garter crest> WESTERN, lined middle chrome green, indian red frames

1906 - 1914 GREAT <garter crest> WESTERN, lined middle chrome green, black frames

1914 - 1922 wartime austerity

1923 - 1927 GREAT <garter crest> WESTERN, lined middle chrome green

1923 - 1927 GREAT __ WESTERN, unlined middle chrome green

1928 - 1934 GREAT <arms> WESTERN, lined Bruswick green

1928 - 1934 GREAT __ WESTERN, unlined Brunswick green

1934 - 1942 Shirtbutton, lined and unlined Brunswick green

1942 - 1945 G W R, wartime black*

1945 - 1947 G W R, unlined Brunswick green

1942 - 1947 G <arms> W, lined Brunswick green

 

* Excepting Kings and Castles

 

I hope this is more or less accurate. Dates are approximate. Please feel free to correct me. I have used "Brunswick" green to describe the slightly more olive later shade introduced around 1928. Perhaps there is a better description?

 

As much as the GWR has a reputation for being staid and conservative it changed the details of it's liveries only slightly less frequently as frequently as a modern TOC.

 

EDIT:

 

Adrian,

 

We were working in parallel and you beat me to it! I like your description better.

 

EDIT: Changed green G <arms> W to start in 1942 to eliminate any confusion.

[Ozexpatriate]

From 1942 express/lined locos got G <twin shield> W, while goods/unlined locos got G W R.

 

Adrian

Adrian,

 

was the G <twin shield> W applied to wartime black which I assume was never lined, or only to green locomotives?

 

Besides Castles and Kings, few of which I suspect were black, I'm thinking of Halls, Granges and Manors I suppose. Being mixed traffic, I suppose any that got painted during the war were black.

 

I imagine the 10xx Hawksworth Counties were introduced in green with the G <arms> W, since they date from 1945.

[Trevellan]

My preference is definitely era 5, BR WR, and I am using reference material from 1959-1965. This encompasses a nice range of steam and diesel traction.

[The Stationmaster]

was the G <twin shield> W applied to wartime black which I assume was never lined, or only to green locomotives?

Besides Castles and Kings, few of which I suspect were black, I'm thinking of Halls, Granges and Manors I suppose. Being mixed traffic, I suppose any that got painted during the war were black.

I imagine the 10xx Hawksworth Counties were introduced in green with the G <arms> W, since they date from 1945.

 

'Castles' and 'Kings' were definitely being turned out of Swindon in fully lined green livery in 1942 according to contemporary magazine reports. No.1000 appeared in lined green with G<twin shield>W on the tender according to contemporary illustrations as were other early members of the class notwithstanding their lack of nameplates - but then the first one was very much regarded as a front rank express passenger engine when new (one of my past supervisors was the regular Fireman on it at that time and told some very interesting stories about it, and his Driver's view that yet again Swindon had turned out something with a 'County' name which yet again was a useless specimen).

[buffalo]

There seems to be a conspiracy in recent posts to suggest that the GWR didn't exist before 1900 What about all those years of brown frames, green wheels, pea green lining, etc., not to mention polished mahogany boiler cladding?

 

Nick

[Ozexpatriate]

'Castles' and 'Kings' were definitely being turned out of Swindon in fully lined green livery in 1942 according to contemporary magazine reports.

Thanks Mike.

 

I presume that the Castles and Kings turned out in green after 1942 got the G <arms> W 'logo'?

[Ozexpatriate]

There seems to be a conspiracy in recent posts to suggest that the GWR didn't exist before 1900 What about all those years of brown frames, green wheels, pea green lining, etc., not to mention polished mahogany boiler cladding?

 

Nick

Indeed!

 

I would love to have some pre-1900 details, but don't have access to the resources to be definitive.

 

The Victorian locomotives are quite attractive.

[Neal Ball]

There seems to be a conspiracy in recent posts to suggest that the GWR didn't exist before 1900 What about all those years of brown frames, green wheels, pea green lining, etc., not to mention polished mahogany boiler cladding?

 

Nick

 

HaHa - Very good Nick - My main concern was that everyone had thought the GWR or BR(WR) did not exist before 1960!! - Or at least as far as the manufactorers were concerned!

 

I was thinking - YES PLEASE to 1930's and very sorry can then be accused of not thinking pre-1900 !!

 

Regards,

 

Thanks Mike.

 

I presume that the Castles and Kings turned out in green after 1942 got the G <arms> W 'logo'?

 

Yes

[Neal Ball]

This post started life in December 2009 - It now includes the option of a Poll

 

Which era do you prefer? It is set for multi-options, But I would suggest it would be better if it was limited to 1st & maybe 2nd choice.

 

Comments as ever welcome.

 

Regards,

[buffalo]

I'm a little confused, didn't we have a poll like this before? I'm sure I can remember voting in a thread started by Neal. Also, the subtitle says "Which era do you model?", but the poll says "What livery do you prefer...?" I voted for favourite liveries this time even though that doesn't cover everything I model.

 

Nick

[Ozexpatriate]

I'm a little confused, didn't we have a poll like this before? I'm sure I can remember voting in a thread started by Neal.

Nick, we do essentially have two threads and each of them has a very similar poll.

 

Originally, a couple of years ago, Neal started this thread. During the early discussion we said, "wouldn't it be nice if we had a poll?", so Neal started a separate poll.

 

Recently I bumped the old poll, and shortly thereafter, Neal added a new poll to this, the original thread.

 

At this point they are a bit redundant and in a perfect world might be better merged, but I don't think it's a big deal either way.

 

Presently there are a lot more votes in the old poll.

[Neal Ball]

I'm a little confused, .......

 

Nick

 

Sorry Nick - I got Andy to add the Poll onto here, forgetting that we had already done it! - Most confusing - Maybe close them both and start again in another year!