Brew Lane - going on a diet - An N gauge shunting puzzle on a Billy bookcase

[Black Sheep]

Not come across timesaver, will have a look

[Black Sheep]

Been playing on a virtual timesaver

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/shunt/jg3tims0.html

 

More prototypical in that goods go to the right place but is it not like a rubix cube where once you know how to do it, you've done it?

 

I'd also need to buy more points.

[richbrummitt]

More prototypical in that goods go to the right place but is it not like a rubix cube where once you know how to do it, you've done it?

 

 It was described by, I think, John Allen in Model Railroader in about 1972. Originally the rules would have led to a description as you describe but you can swap the car cards/locations around and start over - read from B1 here - a new puzzle every time!

[Black Sheep]

With the entire industry being a brewery specific parts would receive specific freight, coal to the boiler house, beer wagons to despatch, yeast, hops and barley to another part and so on, brewery's were designed for a flow of produce.

 

Shunting to a specified location as per original rules then shunt to random order to make a departing train that doesn't actually leave the layout

 

Or should I just get over getting wagons in the right place except for the coal?

[Black Sheep]

So, a plan based on 'timesaver'

 

 

 

 

The line across the front will be quayside with the left hand side having the metcalfe factory 

 

The grey line to the top left is having a bridge over it to disguise the exit that isn't really an exit with a road down into the yard. 

 

While it's tempting to use the layout as a start point to scratch build some buildings I'd like to use the brewery building I've already got and just get on and build something. 

 

we'll see. 

[Grafarman]

So, a plan based on 'timesaver'

 

photo copy 14.JPG

 

photo copy.JPG

 

 

The line across the front will be quayside with the left hand side having the metcalfe factory 

 

The grey line to the top left is having a bridge over it to disguise the exit that isn't really an exit with a road down into the yard. 

 

While it's tempting to use the layout as a start point to scratch build some buildings I'd like to use the brewery building I've already got and just get on and build something. 

 

we'll see. 

 

I really rather like the look of this; I foresee pleasant Sunday afternoons amiably shunting wagons and vans around on their own specific routes, maybe gathering groups of workmen around each van as they are docked, then moving on to the next one, making up a train of empties and so on; y'know, just like the real thing*

 

*except I suspect it wouldn't have been done on a Sunday afternoon...!

 

David

[Black Sheep]

Would take more than a Sunday afternoon if they got friendly with the brewery owner

 

There will be no off stage and no ability to exit the layout merely the appearance of one.

 

Picked up a metcalfe factory already built last night cheap as a place holder until I start building.

[Jaz]

I'm glad you have a decent project to replace the one that has had to go due to health and safety. 

I just popped into wish you and the family...inc the rugrat

a MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Black Sheep]

paramount to the possible success of a shunting puzzle is the ability to couple and uncouple loco and stock successfully. 

 

I've been attempting to get Dapol E-Z-Shunt couplings to work reliably with 1940's 1950's size stock for the past two years and decided, armed with some liquid gravity and a test plank to have another try. 

 

I can have coupling up, I can have un-coupling, but the one thing that I can not get to work is delayed uncoupling, it's as though the couplings simply will not move aside enough, if I manage to get it working then I need a good bump from the loco to get uncoupling to occur. 

 

In trying to get the couplings in and out of the coupling pockets to put them in the jig I've managed to elbow my gaugemaster controller off the table onto the floor taking the test track with it managing to catch the J94 but not the two wagons on it. 

 

The Peco wagon just bounced but the Farish hopper bought a couple of weeks ago is no more

 

 

Every layout plan I have concocted involves needing to shunt, if I can't find couplings that allow this then I might as well give up, the Dapol's simply won't work for me and DG's are too fiddly for me to construct (I should perhaps try again with a finer pair of pliers but I frankly can't be [insert rude word for backside here] ) since I've then got to manage to solder neatly. 

[Grafarman]

One of the reasons I stuck to main line running in N gauge and moved up to OO for shunting; I often wondered why the manufacturers didn't put a version of the tension lock coupling on N gauge stock as it would have been so much easier to use!

 

 

David

[Black Sheep]

Someone has suggested microtrains couplings so I'm going to try and track down a set and see if they work and also get hold of some small pliers and try again with the DG's

[Jaz]

So, a plan based on 'timesaver'

 

photo copy 14.JPG

 

photo copy.JPG

 

 

The line across the front will be quayside with the left hand side having the metcalfe factory 

 

The grey line to the top left is having a bridge over it to disguise the exit that isn't really an exit with a road down into the yard. 

 

While it's tempting to use the layout as a start point to scratch build some buildings I'd like to use the brewery building I've already got and just get on and build something. 

 

we'll see. 

Having seen a couple of shunting puzzles at exhibitions, I think it gives an extra dimension to smaller layouts, and like the playability angle. It is also something that hopefully will intrigue a small child as they get older.....something for you to look forward to......

[Jaz]

paramount to the possible success of a shunting puzzle is the ability to couple and uncouple loco and stock successfully. 

 

I've been attempting to get Dapol E-Z-Shunt couplings to work reliably with 1940's 1950's size stock for the past two years and decided, armed with some liquid gravity and a test plank to have another try. 

 

I can have coupling up, I can have un-coupling, but the one thing that I can not get to work is delayed uncoupling, it's as though the couplings simply will not move aside enough, if I manage to get it working then I need a good bump from the loco to get uncoupling to occur. 

 

In trying to get the couplings in and out of the coupling pockets to put them in the jig I've managed to elbow my gaugemaster controller off the table onto the floor taking the test track with it managing to catch the J94 but not the two wagons on it. 

 

The Peco wagon just bounced but the Farish hopper bought a couple of weeks ago is no more

 

photo copy 7.JPG

 

Every layout plan I have concocted involves needing to shunt, if I can't find couplings that allow this then I might as well give up, the Dapol's simply won't work for me and DG's are too fiddly for me to construct (I should perhaps try again with a finer pair of pliers but I frankly can't be [insert rude word for backside here] ) since I've then got to manage to solder neatly. 

Kal investigated the Kadees, and was pleased with them. I don't know if they would be good for shunting puzzles, but he is always complaining over the fact his hands are far too big for fiddly jobs, and successfully managed those. Perhaps another one to contemplate.

[Black Sheep]

Cheers Jaz,

 

I thought Kadee were 00 only but I'll have a look.

[Jaz]

Cheers Jaz,

 

I thought Kadee were 00 only but I'll have a look.

ahhh.......oh.....well WE are 00.....it never occurred to me they didn't do N.......Doh!

[Black Sheep]

I've assumed them to only be 00 and hadn't thought to look if they do N.

[garethashenden]

Kadee used to do N scale couplings but they got spun off as a separate company. That company is Micro Trains.

[Black Sheep]

So there we go! Jaz was actually correct!

[mjcampbell]

I use Microtrains in 009 and 014. As Gareth says they are Kadees for N - Kadee sold off their N-gauge division.

 

I find them not too tricky to make with a little practice - they are small but no soldering or gluing needed, or you can get them ready made for a price. They are robust and don't often need adjustment if set up right first time, getting reliable uncoupling does take a little set-up of magnets and couplings but it is possible. There isn't an NEM fit version though. Some of my experience is on my blog.

 

I'd be interested if Microtrains can be used with the Dapol couplings?

[Black Sheep]

I've been told micro trains can't be used with the Dapol ones - my personal views of the Dapol ones have been aired in a few places on this forum - waste of money being my own conclusion, 2 out of my pack of 10 were missing springs out of the box along with having only been able to have coupling / uncoupling or delayed ut not all three or even two of at any one time. 

 

So, Micro Trains ones come as kit form?

You mention in your blog switching from DG, what was the reason for doing so if I may ask?

Where do you acquire your couplings from?

[BR60103]

Micro Trains make a variety of coupling mounting styles. The basic should be available as a kit or made up.

Kadee was started by Keith and Dale Edwards -- http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/tribute.htm-- and they split up between HO and larger and N and smaller.

 

One of the surviving original time savers: (at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum)

 

[TomJ]

I've had reasonable success with the Dapol ones. A few have had the spring jump out but the recent packs have spares in. It's a strangely satisfying job using a magnifying glass to refit them! Then a drop of superglue secures them.

I find uncoupling 100% but like you have much less success with the delayed recoupling. I have simply used more magnets in all the places I plan to uncouple. I've either used the Dapol ones buried under the sleepers or (cheaper) rare earth magnets between the sleepers - as described by Karhedron on here. With this I can run round and shunt the goods yard with almost 100% reliability.

 

I can't think of any alternative that is as easy to fit

[mjcampbell]

So, Micro Trains ones come as kit form?

You mention in your blog switching from DG, what was the reason for doing so if I may ask?

Where do you acquire your couplings from?

 

Yes, they are cheaper that way - about £12 for 10 pairs, that's similar to etched types of couplers.

 

I found the DG ones fiddly to make, difficult to get working reliably, I never got magnetic uncoupling working, and the slightest knock meant they needed re-adjustment. I'm sure it's all possible. In 009 the Greenwich coupling is perhaps the most popular "magnetic" type, and that does look better than the DG, but is still vulnerable to knocks and many find the only way to get reliable operation is to remove the loops from one end of each vehicle. The M-T's aren't easily knocked out of adjustment if firmly mounted central and level, occasionally one needs the iron tail tweaking or some graphite applying.

 

They type I use is the 1016 in a 10-pair pack (1016-10) which is a body-mount. The 1015 is similar with a shorter shank, and they come in black or brown. There are dozens of other types to fit different stock, heights, plus bogies with them already fitted... the Microtrains site is helpful:

http://www.micro-trains.com/magne-matic.php

 

UK suppliers are surprisingly thin, compared to Kadee which you can find in lots of places, here are some I've used or looked at - depending on price, range, and stocks (which do vary):

http://www.kato-unitrack.co.uk/n-scale-couplers-1177-0.html

http://www.nscaleamericantrains.co.uk/en/141-couplers-trucks-wheels

http://www.nairnshire-modelling-supplies.co.uk/micro-trains-lines-m-40.html

I haven't found a suitable source in the US though it might be possible, potentially cheaper and more reliable - but don't forget you can get stung for VAT and customs/handling charges,

 

You will need a tube of graphite powder (Kadee). A height gauge is a good idea but I made some from plastic, and setting the trip pin over 10 thou plastic across the rail is easy enough. I self-tap the screws into a 1mm hole in a plastic or whitemetal body, which works fine. Here's a picture of two at different stages of being assembled - I made a jig from plastic to hold the parts while I clip them together, that's all:

 

[Black Sheep]

A bit of progress on the baseboard, 

 

 

The trackbed will be raised up slightly, I'll be using some perspex to represent canal / dock water 

 

The plan for couplings is to get some small magnets like Karhedron has suggested in the Dapol thread placed where I need to uncouple and do without the delayed action. 

[Black Sheep]

Quick mock up of how things should look,

 

Need to trim the board for the canal

 

 

Also need to work out wire in tube routes