Hornby Duchess Query

[ianwales]

Hi

 

I am aware that Hornby have done models of the streamline Duchess/City and the Normal Duchess, but, have they done a model of the de-streamlined one, the one where the top of the smokebox starts to slope down ahead of the chimney, but, has a normal ssmokebox door?

 

Ian

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

They have offered this variant in the previous incarnation of the loco drive model, with the flanged wheel (correctly swinging) trailing truck. This would be somewhere in the 2000 - 2002 time zone, not long after the move to China production.

[ScRSG]

Yes in fact they have done far too many of this type, currently available is City of Edinburgh in BR blue and to come this year is City of Liverpool, see their new catalogue. It is a gripe of mine that they haven't done the full smokebox (late) version of the de- streamlined version for looong time!

[robmcg]

Hi

 

I am aware that Hornby have done models of the streamline Duchess/City and the Normal Duchess, but, have they done a model of the de-streamlined one, the one where the top of the smokebox starts to slope down ahead of the chimney, but, has a normal ssmokebox door?

 

Ian

 

R2311 City of Glasgow in LMS lined black  produced c2002-2004

R2553 City of Bristol in BR blue 2006-7 also in set R1094 with red nameplates 2007

R2303M Pricess Alexandra BR blue 2002 Royal Scot set

R2231 Duchess of Rutland BR green 2002-2004

R3111 City of Edinburgh BR blue  2010?

 

All the above had the de-streamlined sloping smokebox. Good luck!

 

Source; Ramsay's Guide 7th edition   except the last entry which is from a version I bought last year, then sold again..

 

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

Edited January 12, 2013 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Also,in black,City of Manchester and City of Glasgow (both LMS). To be released in BR (early crest) City of Liverpool.Sorry-don't have the catalogue numbers.A Manchester in black is on e-bay ATM and has been for weeks. Regards,Ian.

[ianwales]

Hi

 

Thanks for the info, Just one ,more question, Have they done both the split and curved footplate versions of the duchess as well?

 

Ian

[Ian Hargrave]

If you mean the Ivatt built 46256 & 46257 with Timken roller bearings and altered cab,then no.You may occasionally spot one that someone has adapted on e-bay

[ianwales]

If you mean the Ivatt built 46256 & 46257 with Timken roller bearings and altered cab,then no.You may occasionally spot one that someone has adapted on e-bay

 

Hi Ian

 

No I didn't mean the Ivatt's, I am going to use the Coet conversion eventually to do 6256, what I meant was the standard(if there was such an engine) Duchess with the round smokebox came in 2 varieties, with a curve in the front footplate joining the bufferbeam to the higher portion or with a gap there like the Ivatts.

 

Ian

[TonyW]

Hi Ian

 

No I didn't mean the Ivatt's, I am going to use the Coet conversion eventually to do 6256, what I meant was the standard(if there was such an engine) Duchess with the round smokebox came in 2 varieties, with a curve in the front footplate joining the bufferbeam to the higher portion or with a gap there like the Ivatts.

 

Ian

Yes, Hornby have produced both, the split footplate were ex streamliners.

 

I too have a Comet conversion kit to transform 46237 City of Bristol in Blue into Sir William Stanier.

 

Tony

Edited January 13, 2013 by TonyW

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi Ian

 

No I didn't mean the Ivatt's, I am going to use the Coet conversion eventually to do 6256, what I meant was the standard(if there was such an engine) Duchess with the round smokebox came in 2 varieties, with a curve in the front footplate joining the bufferbeam to the higher portion or with a gap there like the Ivatts.

 

Ian

Then the answer is yes. But for the life of me,I can't think which ones have the gap

[Free At Last]

Hornby City of Manchester

[andyman7]

Then the answer is yes. But for the life of me,I can't think which ones have the gap

I think it was (4)6230/1/2/3/4/5 only (Buccleuch/Atholl/Montrose/Sutherland/Abercorn) that didn't have the gap. The later unstreamlined ones (4)6349 on were built with the split running plate

[ianwales]

Hi all

 

Many thanks

 

Ian

[92220]

Hi Ian

 

49-52 also had curved footplate fronts, as did 42 after rebuild following the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster.

 

I have seen the sloping smoke box as a spare available separately on eBay as well.

 

You might have seen this build of 46256:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65335-motive-power-for-camden-shed/

 

Iain

[robmcg]

Yes I bought a sloping smokebox from Peter's Spares just a few weeks ago for about £9 with smokebox darts and other little bits.

 

Actually this thread got me interested and I tracked down a couple of nice buys on Ebay, early crest green 'Duchess of Rutland', and a weathered maroon late crest re-named 'King Geoge VI'  under £100 for each  as new but each had one front step missing.  My impression is that fair prices can still be had. Hard to find a factory-weathered Montrose though.

 

Here is one I owned until last year...

 

 

and here below is the maroon late BR 'King George VI'...  I think the weathering is pretty good, the pristine maroon engines haven't got the finest of lining I've seen, and the weathering, after-market in this case, improves things.

 

 

and, below,  the elusive Rutland with sloping smokebox...  might not be to the very latest standards of RTR 00 but they look very nice.

 

 

Rob

Edited January 14, 2013 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Saw Rutland 'in the flesh' whilst still in black  1:35 pm Euston-Perth,early 50's. Bought a 'Salford' with neat cab conversion from Acme (decent nearly local real model shop) via e-bay a couple of weeks or so ago. Had a Dublo 'Montrose' as a kid. This one is,arguably,one of Hornby's better weathering jobs.

[robmcg]

Yes, the three-rail Montrose was the star of our house front room floor layouts in the 50s... until Bristol Castle came along....     those West Coast Main Line expresses certainly had something.  Who ever would have thought in 1960 they would all be gone so quickly?

[Horsetan]

Yes I bought a sloping smokebox from Peter's Spares just a few weeks ago for about £9 with smokebox darts and other little bits.

 

It's quite a nice rendition.

 

If you were going to be really pernickety about it, then it seems that Hornby left the door in the same position as the full cylindrical smokeboxes. The door should really be slightly lower down on the sloping smokeboxes, i.e. not at the same pitch as the boiler and smokebox centre.

[robmcg]

Moving on from such troublesome concepts as truth in digital photography, this thread has reminded me of the pleasures of late '50s and early '60s enthusiasm for the Duchess class, with or as later without sloping smokebox.

 

I was given an Ian Allan  Book of Railways for Christmas 1962 and it has miraculously survived all these years. It contains a chapter on the Stanier Pacifics, and concludes with reference to a remarkable run by the loco in my picture, on Sept 5 1957 with the southbound 'Caledonian'. No.46244 'King Geoge VI'  "took to its heels" and reached Euston 35 minutes early, having covered the 401 miles from Glasgow in 6 hours and 3 minutes.

 

The real sprinting was done from Stafford to Watford, 116.3 miles reeled off at an average of 83 m.p.h.; and remarkably surmounting Tring Summit at no less than 96 m.p.h.

 

My picture shows 46244 in earlier BR green  and my purchase of her in slightly grubby maroon in late crest BR form is probably one of the few times weathering is not entirely appropriate!  But I think the general feeling is there, for me at least. One of these locomotives with a train 'in hand' on the WCML grades would have been a superb sight to behold, even if the seven (or was that nine?) carriage 'Caledonian' was easy work... 

 

I'm intrigued that some consider the Duke of Gloucester the equal of these locomotives now.

 

 

Rob

 

typo edit

Edited January 16, 2013 by robmcg

[Horsetan]

...real sprinting was done from Stafford to Watford, 116.3 miles reeled off at an average of 83 m.p.h.; and remarkably surmounting Tring Summit at no less than 96 m.p.h...

Out of interest, what was the gradient and how long was / is the climb to Tring Summit?

[robmcg]

Towards Euston, from Bletchley through Leighton Buzzard at 40 1/4 miles from Euston the line climbs (ed) generally at  1:660/1:1685 for 6 1/4 miles, then it drops lightly at 1:1330 for a little over a mile (milepost 39), rises at 1:540 for a mile (milepost 38), the climbs  towards Tring summit for 6 miles at 1:333 (summit near milepost 32). Level through Tring for about 3/4 mile then downhill for 14 miles to Watford, the first 7 miles at 1:335.

 

Source; 'Mile by Mile on Britain's Railways' by S N Pike

Edited January 17, 2013 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Moving quickly along, I too have a question.

 

My Irwell 'Book of the Coronations Pacifics Mk2' says that  46228 'Duchess of Rutland' had its smokebox 'restored' in 12/53 (p59), but as far as I can tell it was in BR blue then and didn't receive BR green until 6/55 (p64).

 

Can Hornby possibly be wrong with sloping smokebox on BR green early crest 46228?

 

Rob 

Edited January 18, 2013 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

O.K. Rob,this is just along shot.In my posting above,I said I'd seen Rutland at Euston in the early 50's in black. I think it is distinctly possible that this particular loco did not receive blue livery but was repainted straight into Brunswick Green and the dates given above are incorrect. As to when it received its final nose job---pass on that one. Now to wait until others prove I'm having a senior moment. Greetings from arctic Burton on Trent and keep the photos coming. By the way,your pic came true for me in Sept. 1960. I copped 46244 'Caledonian' northbound passing slowly on the through road through Crewe staton. I still have the photo I took with my Ilford Sportsman. Sadly,I lost the negatives years back.

[92220]

Hi Rob

 

Jenkinson says 46228 had its smokebox done 1/57, and was blue from 1950, repainted green 8/55, and red 6/58.

So if those dates are correct, the sloping smokebox/green combination was fine for about 19-20 months.

Hope that helps.

 

Iain

[robmcg]

O.K. Rob,this is just along shot.In my posting above,I said I'd seen Rutland at Euston in the early 50's in black. I think it is distinctly possible that this particular loco did not receive blue livery but was repainted straight into Brunswick Green and the dates given above are incorrect. As to when it received its final nose job---pass on that one. Now to wait until others prove I'm having a senior momennegatives lost, or at least it would take many many hours to dig them out of boxes and identifyt. Greetings from arctic Burton on Trent and keep the photos coming. By the way,your pic came true for me in Sept. 1960. I copped 46244 'Caledonian' northbound passing slowly on the through road through Crewe staton. I still have the photo I took with my Ilford Sportsman. Sadly,I lost the negatives years back.

 

Thanks for that reply Ian, it's a great pleasure to me that you and others like the illustrations I make. I too have many old photos with negatives missing, or sometime in boxes or old envelopes which would take a long time to identify. Most of mine were not taken with an Ilford Sportsman, but an 'Agfa Clack'... which took 120-size film, 8 pictures at 2 3/4" x 3 x 3/4". A very few were actually quite passable, for the day.   Oh, to have had the skills of W J V Anderson!

 

Rob 

Edited January 18, 2013 by robmcg