Older Inspirational Layouts

[ianathompson]

Late to the show as usual!

 

Re the Gorre & Daphaetid I was susrprised to pick up my copy of Model Railroad Planning 2022 and find out that the G&D is being copied.

The builder has called it the Great Divide so that he can retain the initials.

 

I personally cannot understand this.

For a start the layout was totally freelanced, even down to the locos.

Unless you restrict yourself to copying alone how do you get into the mindset of the creator of a freelanced layout?

Secondly, whilst it was a brilliant and influential layout, it was a child of its time and contains some aspects that I personally find jarring.

The passage of the train through the same scene several times is one example.

One final point that seems to escape people's notice is that the mainline was never completed as one of the bridges remained unfinished.

 

From the magazine it would seem that the intention is also to copy some of the freelanced locos.

There was an article in Model Railroader a few years ago about the restoration of one of the original models.

This had either survived the fire or was away from the layout at the time of the fire.

 

Re the Craig & Mertonford

 

I have the Peco book and my collection of Railway Modellers covers the mid sixties and all the seventies.

I much preferred the original layout to the later versions.

To be honest I was more impressed with the Aire Valley, the Stronalachar Railway and the Augher Valley.

 

Interestingly enough these railways were built at a time when much less attention was paid to the real railways by modellers.

It is only in recent times that the majority of modellers have become more interested in copying, or adapting, the prototype.

I suspect, to some extent, that Model Railway Journal has been influential here.

Anyway, following a recent archaeological dig in my full set of MRJs to find one article in particular I came across Metroplitan Junction.

Forgive me if it has been raised previously on this thread but the three articles about it were fascinating and I bet that it inspired many people!

 

Meanwhile, the influence of those freelanced layouts was strong.

Sufficiently strong that, in my case, I followed suit, invented my own country and model the narrow gauge railways thereof.

 

There are still some of us out there dancing to a different beat!

 

Ian T

[St Enodoc]

19 minutes ago, ianathompson said:

the Augher Valley.

That was a proper layout!

[DLT]

33 minutes ago, ianathompson said:

Aire Valley, the Stronalachar Railway and the Augher Valley.

 

I still often look back at these.

[t-b-g]

We all have our own personal favourites and when a layout was rebuilt or developed over many years, we will have our personal favourite period or version of that layout. The final version of Buckingham had, in my view, become just a bit too busy and cluttered compared to a while earlier. One well known modeller even suggested some work to backdate the layout by removing some later additions but I have chickened out of doing that!

 

When I saw the plan to build a new G&D I absolutely understood the reasons for doing it.

 

There are not many layouts that deserve if not immortality, at least to be kept after the builder has passed on because of the impact that they had on the hobby.

 

Plans were being made to try to preserve the original layout when it was destroyed by fire. So if you have been a long time fan and you have the opportunity and means to build a close copy, then why not see if you can recreate at least some of the magic that the original clearly worked on people.

 

The new layout is not actually freelance at all. It is based on a prototype. It is just that in this case the prototype was a bit smaller than normal. So all the research to get the models as accurate as possible is just the same as if you were modelling the real full sized railway. I think it is an unusual and truly fascinating take on "you should never model a model, you should model the prototype".

[DLT]

38 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

We all have our own personal favourites and when a layout was rebuilt or developed over many years, we will have our personal favourite period or version of that layout. The final version of Buckingham had, in my view, become just a bit too busy and cluttered compared to a while earlier. One well known modeller even suggested some work to backdate the layout by removing some later additions but I have chickened out of doing that!

 

I quite agree, for instance the extra platform/dock at the front rather spoilt the look of the station.  I seem to remember you telling me that it had bridged baseboard joint as well?

Cheers, Dave.

[DLT]

On 21/07/2022 at 22:49, RJS1977 said:

 

The most recent reference to these layouts on NGRM is that JdF attempted to sell one or other of them but couldn't get anywhere near his asking price.

 

County Gate and Cliffhanger where both sold to a businessman who planned to have them on display in his offices, but whether this came to fruition I've no idea.

[t-b-g]

40 minutes ago, DLT said:

 

I quite agree, for instance the extra platform/dock at the front rather spoilt the look of the station.  I seem to remember you telling me that it had bridged baseboard joint as well?

Cheers, Dave.

 

Yes, the dock at the front required a wider baseboard so a very flimsy extension was added, probably about 4ins. wide. It made moving the baseboard very tricky as it is now too wide to go through a door and the extension concealed the bolts holding the legs on, making it very tricky to get out of the door. You couldn't support the weight of the baseboard along that side as the extension wasn't strong enough to hold the weight of the rest of it.

 

I will dig out a photo of the board being moved. It was quite something to see.

 

Edit to add photo.

 

 

At this stage, the board was jammed in the doorway and was being supported by about 4 people while the two on the ground were trying to saw the legs off.

Edited July 23, 2022 by t-b-g
To add photo

[Invicta Informant]

To me, 'Older Inspirational Layouts' that come to mind are the ones that featured in the programmes A Lineside Look At Model Railways and Another Lineside Look At Model Railways both presented and narrated by Bob Symes. Bearing in mind the layouts featured were filmed in the 1980s, I am still impressed at what was achieved considering the modelling resources that were available back then. Often than not, they had to try and make something out of nothing and from materials outside the modelling genre.

 

The layouts featured in the two programmes were Bigston, the Daventry Garden Railway, Chiltern Green, Chesil Bay, Wyndlesham Cove, Axford, Rye Harbour, Borchester Market, Bevleys, Bromford & High Peak, Petherick, Ashdon & Midport, Combe Mellin, Wheal Louise, Filisur, and Port Sandford Harbour, with the credits mentioning the modellers Geoff Bigmore, Bryan Burchell, Tim Watson, Mike Hayward, Barry Norman, Dave & Shirley Rowe, Martin Brent, Frank Dyer, Dave Lowery, Ken Ashberry, David Simmonite, Robert Tivendale, Barry Kelsall, Colin Monk and Geoff Drew.

[John Besley]

Was Axford by Dave and Shirley Rowe?... Is there any pictures of it as I've been hunting for this one for sometime.... But the layout name evaded me

Edited July 23, 2022 by John Besley

[Invicta Informant]

2 minutes ago, John Besley said:

Was Axford by Dave and Shirley Rowe?... Is there any pictures of it as I've been hunting for this one for sometime.... But the layout name evaded me

Yes, Axford was built by Dave & Shirley Rowe. A Lineside Look At Model Railways is available to view on YouTube, but split into three parts. Axford is in this part between 6:26 and 10:51.

 

[dunwurken]

6 hours ago, DLT said:

 

I still often look back at these.

Locos from both lines are held in the 009 Society Heritage Collection.

Malcolm

[Clive martin]

18 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

 

Yes please, that is why I started the thread in the first place!

 

It has made me sad on occasion though, as many really good  layouts I had not seen or was not aware of have popped up, which are long gone of course.

 

Peter Denny still remains my most influential modeller, the current owner/caretaker of Buckingham has kindly extended an invitation to see it, Covid however has brought that to a standstill, but maybe soon.....#sigh.

 

 

 

[Clive martin]

 Kirknewton toAnother layout from my pre tops folder Kirknewton to Glenburnie railway modeller sep 82, i think it was tjhe  ac electrics and the mtk class 304 that roamed this layout,that i have always liked ,from the march 85 practical model railways Brigenshaw very neatly built tops era rail blue ex l and Y R mainline in n ,being a big fan of Ian Futers layouts ,Lochside dirty blue diesel era branch line in Fife railway modeller August 1980,and another claddic by Ian Futers Longwitton Railway modeller Dec 77 this inspired me to build my own version of Longwitton,i can find loads more older layouts that have inspired me so i will keep them comeing!

[Clive martin]

 Kirknewton toAnother layout from my pre tops folder Kirknewton to Glenburnie railway modeller sep 82, i think it was tjhe  ac electrics and the mtk class 304 that roamed this layout,that i have always liked 

[Clive martin]

Sorry about spelling mistakes on my last post my big proddy fingers hit the wrong keys!while i am here does any one remember the superb 2mm finescale layout Chee Tor?

[Clive martin]

 

 Another layout from my pre tops folder Kirknewton to Glenburnie railway modeller sep 82, i think it was the  ac electrics and the mtk class 304 that roamed this layout,that i have always liked 

[t-b-g]

12 minutes ago, Clive martin said:

 Kirknewton toAnother layout from my pre tops folder Kirknewton to Glenburnie railway modeller sep 82, i think it was tjhe  ac electrics and the mtk class 304 that roamed this layout,that i have always liked ,from the march 85 practical model railways Brigenshaw very neatly built tops era rail blue ex l and Y R mainline in n ,being a big fan of Ian Futers layouts ,Lochside dirty blue diesel era branch line in Fife railway modeller August 1980,and another claddic by Ian Futers Longwitton Railway modeller Dec 77 this inspired me to build my own version of Longwitton,i can find loads more older layouts that have inspired me so i will keep them comeing!

 

I first met Ian Futers in the early 1980s when I arrived as he played the piano on the stage at Bentley Pavilion near Doncaster during setting up for an exhibition.

 

I think he has had a great influence on the hobby and has inspired many people to have a go at building layouts by showing just what is possible with a small space and a handful of points.

 

I most recently saw him at the O Gauge Doncaster show, where he had just such a layout.

 

I should have told him that I am presently building a layout very much inspired by his "3 point" terminus designs. 

[Clive martin]

23 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I first met Ian Futers in the early 1980s when I arrived as he played the piano on the stage at Bentley Pavilion near Doncaster during setting up for an exhibition.

 

I think he has had a great influence on the hobby and has inspired many people to have a go at building layouts by showing just what is possible with a small space and a handful of points.

 

I most recently saw him at the O Gauge Doncaster show, where he had just such a layout.

 

I should have told him that I am presently building a layout very much inspired by his "3 point" terminus designs. 

 Kirknewton toAnother layout from my pre tops folder Kirknewton to Glenburnie railway modeller sep 82, i think it was tjhe  ac electrics and the mtk class 304 that roamed this layout,that i have always liked 

[Clive martin]

Yes Ian Futers is one of the greats of our hobby ,you are correct his 3 point layout plans are very inspirational !

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, Clive martin said:

 from the march 85 practical model railways Brigenshaw very neatly built tops era rail blue ex l and Y R mainline in n

I still have this though not currently in running form. There was a thread on it here but the pictures aren't yet restored even though they are well before the back-up cut-off date.

[Clive martin]

Hi Bernard great news that brigenshaw is still alive, it will always be one of my all time fav layouts!

[BernardTPM]

Perhaps dormant is a more appropriate description, but maybe one day it may become a phoenix, albeit with some improvements; I never was entirely happy with the left hand, town end of the layout. A new piece was started, but ground to a halt about 20 years ago. It would have reused a large number of the existing buildings, adding a few new ones, though in a matching style. I was also going to move it to the other side of the Pennines to suit the red brick of the buildings; really the Yorkshire side should be millstone grit. Still the same L&YR route though.

[RJS1977]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

 

At this stage, the board was jammed in the doorway and was being supported by about 4 people while the two on the ground were trying to saw the legs off.

 

 

[t-b-g]

15 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

 

 

A bit too close to the truth. There was a debate beforehand, with some people saying that it would go through easily if we fed two legs through first. Others said that it probably wouldn't go but we could just try it and come up with a plan B if necessary. Nobody suggested that it would jam, so that several rather elderly unfit people would have to hold the heavy board in the air for half an hour while others sawed the legs off. If we had dropped it, the full weight would have gone on the flimsy extension already mentioned and would have crushed some buildings and damaged the track. It may also have injured those underneath doing the sawing.

 

It was one of many such dodgy moments in the moving of the layout but the only time I was seriously concerned that major damage was imminent.

[Pacific231G]

15 hours ago, ianathompson said:

Late to the show as usual!

 

Re the Gorre & Daphaetid I was susrprised to pick up my copy of Model Railroad Planning 2022 and find out that the G&D is being copied.

The builder has called it the Great Divide so that he can retain the initials.

 

I personally cannot understand this.

For a start the layout was totally freelanced, even down to the locos.

Unless you restrict yourself to copying alone how do you get into the mindset of the creator of a freelanced layout?

Secondly, whilst it was a brilliant and influential layout, it was a child of its time and contains some aspects that I personally find jarring.

The passage of the train through the same scene several times is one example.

One final point that seems to escape people's notice is that the mainline was never completed as one of the bridges remained unfinished.

 

From the magazine it would seem that the intention is also to copy some of the freelanced locos.

There was an article in Model Railroader a few years ago about the restoration of one of the original models.

This had either survived the fire or was away from the layout at the time of the fire.

 

Re the Craig & Mertonford

 

I have the Peco book and my collection of Railway Modellers covers the mid sixties and all the seventies.

I much preferred the original layout to the later versions.

To be honest I was more impressed with the Aire Valley, the Stronalachar Railway and the Augher Valley.

 

Interestingly enough these railways were built at a time when much less attention was paid to the real railways by modellers.
I

t is only in recent times that the majority of modellers have become more interested in copying, or adapting, the prototype.

I suspect, to some extent, that Model Railway Journal has been influential here.

Anyway, following a recent archaeological dig in my full set of MRJs to find one article in particular I came across Metroplitan Junction.

Forgive me if it has been raised previously on this thread but the three articles about it were fascinating and I bet that it inspired many people!

 

Meanwhile, the influence of those freelanced layouts was strong.

Sufficiently strong that, in my case, I followed suit, invented my own country and model the narrow gauge railways thereof.

 

There are still some of us out there dancing to a different beat!

 

Ian T

The Aire Valley was clearly  based on the final version of the Madder Valley (with the branch to Gammon End) and to some extent the original Craig also looks to have been  inspired by Madderport. Peter Denny's original Leighton Buzzard also used the same track plan as Gammon End though that may have been coincidental.

The odd ting about the original CMR was that it had a very workable terminus but nowhere for trains to go to.

I never found the Aire Valley anything like as attractive as the Augher Valley which really seemed to capture the atmosphere of a straggling rural  Irish narrow gauge line . I only know it from RM so wonder if David Lloyd  ever finished the scenery on the upper section. 

Metropolitan Junction has been preserved and I saw it at ExpoEM a few years ago. I wasn't as impressed by it as I'd expected to be but I'm not all that interested in roundy rounds.