Ref, Birmingham New Street. Chimneys, heating and smoke rules for valley station budlings?

[Jamiel]

I am building a model of a large town station that sits in a valley below street level, it is a fictious loaction but references several real locations, particularly Birmingham New Street, set in the early 60's.

 

I am planning a building similar to the one below (images linked from: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com).

 

It appears that the bulding does not have any chimneys. The roof is adjacent to a pavement (as my model will be).

I was wondering if there were any rules making chimneys at street level illegal?

 

It may be that being on such a large station that all heating was from a central boiler room somewhere else on the station.

 

With the buildings from steam days, there would have been lots of smoke coming from the locomtives at the platforms anyway, but I am a little puzzled by the lack of chimneys on this building, as most station buildings have chimneys, and with coal powering the locomotives it was easy to use it as a source of heating for the buildings too.

 

Any information would be gratefully received.

 

Jamie

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/bhamnewstreet/brlocomotives/lnwrbns_br1795.jpg

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/bhamnewstreet/brlocomotives/lnwrbns_br1790.jpg

[R A Watson]

Looking at the photo closely there appears to be ventilators in some of the windows and also bars inside, was this possibly a goods warehouse and therefore no heating provided.

 

Wally

[Jamiel]

Thanks Wally.

 

The area at the left just as the building goes behind the canopy looks like a goods handling area, so that would certainly fit with your reply.

I was also going to use the building as a goods warehouse (mostly), but if one end had offices in it, presumably a couple of chamneys would justified.

 

I hadn't considered that goods warehouses would be unheated, but it was presumably more dangerous to have fires around goods than to allow it to get cold and possibly damp.

 

The main station building will be high enough to not be affected by my concerns about chimneys at pavement level, and the island platform buildings will be away from any footpaths.

 

I wonder if there were any rules governing that sort of thing in those days. They would probably have come under local planning regulations though, so would vary in different parts of the country.

[Guest jim s-w]

The corresponding building at the other end of the station was originally stables - I wonder if they had them at both ends?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[TheSignalEngineer]

I think there was some kind of mail/parcels handling area at that end, there was definitely a goods lift by where that open area is. On an old shot of mine there are some trolleys of mailbags there. AlsoMost of the buildings on that side were linked to the main station offices that formed part of the Queen's Hotel block, but that part was separated by the gymnasium of King Edward's School. The wall behind the diesel loco was in front of where the gymnasium stood. The Odeon Cinema was built on the school playground.

[90171]

There was little effective town planning legislation before 1948 and few environmental regulations. I think that broadly, in the 1870s to 1890s when such buildings were being constructed, a railway company would do as it wished.

If you want to see chimneys close to (upper) street levels, consider Hebden Bridge (ie the town as a whole).

 

Railway warehouses were not heated. However there would usually be an office for the Goods Agent and clerks, either part of the main structure, or an annexe. This would certainly have coal fires to each room, and sufficient chimneys.

 

Each room on a station would have a fire and a chimney------ central heating was not used. This would include General Waiting Rooms, Ladies Waiting rooms, Porters Rooms, Ticket Offices etc etc

[Arthur]

This months (March 2013) British Railways Illustrated has a brief article on New Street. The text is a brief history of the station but the more interesting content is the five photographs, taken in 1950, showing parts of the parcels facilities. 

 

The text quotes a local worthy saying, in 1964, " I know of no station in this country, Europe or the United States which for filth, muck and general dishevelment compares with New Street."  The photos suggest that he might have a point....

[Jamiel]

Thanks for all the replies.

Town plannig being post war legislation makes sense.

 

Post 18, on the first page for my layout has an early plan/side elevation for this building - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53110-ellerby/ - think the triple windows on the ground level will change to the same sash windows on the rest of the plan.

 

I do find it very helpful to find out why things existed, and consequently why they were bult that way, it makes both the modelling and operation of the layout more realistic and enjoyable.

 

Originally I planned to make my model 1970's, the period I knew as a spotter, but the lure of steam engines was too much, so I changed to the transition period. An awful lot changed on the railways between 1962 and 1977, apart from the obvious withdrawl of steam power. Until I started researching how stiotns operated in steam days I never understood why there were engine release tracks on platforms inhabited by DMUs when I saw them.

I think this is another of those changes that explains about a building that was probably derelict, or even demolised by the mid 70's.

I will grab a copy of 'British Railways Illustrated'.

 

Are there any books about Birmingham New Street station that anyone knws of that might be helpful for reference?

 

PS. I didn't know hotlinking images was not allowed on the forum, sorry.

[Forester]

Industrial buildings were commonly not heated but a coal or coke stove would be fitted in a corner or small room, as much to provide copious amounts of tea as to provide heat. Look closely and you will often find small diameter stove pipes poking out through a roof or walls. Coal fires and the like were only for passengers and stationmasters, and central heating only for large offices. Life was tough in those days. Most of British industry ran on hot tea.

[rovex]

I understand from speaking to Birmingham Archives when I was trying to locate any plans they might have of Snow Hill, that whilst there was some town planning legislation , which may have been more concerned with drains than anything else, it didn't apply to the railways.

 

Looking at some of the other photographs of New Street on the website you've linked there are certainly plenty of chimneys in the station buildings/offices/waiting rooms etc.

 

I would have thought that the concern with pavement chimneys would have been the potential for civil claims for injuries, depending on the arrangements you have in mind.

 

Dean