Father Dougal Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ok, getting a bit bored now. Number one son has moved back in and layout work is now on hold. I thought I would start a thread about my model making. I consider myself a beginner - but I know this term can be open to lots of interpretation. This thread should interest any beginners to O gauge, anyone new to kit building and anyone who like me is slowly developing their skills and making a few mistakes along the way. Ok, enough wittering. First project- get on and make that damn brass kit! ( it has been slowly taunting me for ages- how hard can it be?) I have started a Haywood kit- had it for 3 years. Started soldering today. My first attempt. So far, so good. All achieved using a basic soldering iron, flux and solder suitable for brass, a few cheap metal clamps and a few cheap files. I will post a few pictures once I have something that looks halfway decent- just don't laugh at my soldering. Note to self- buy a bending bar or hold and fold. Note to self- find other sources of kits that are suitable for beginners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Ok- first brass kit done. Not too bad but a steep learning curve- the kit uses a lot of tabs which are soldered from behind- I found I was using too much solder to begin with. The suspension was really easy to make and my favourite part of the build. I dreaded soldering the roof but this was fairly easy. I'm not happy with the doors- but for a first go it is ok. Off to the paint shop now. Image 3 shows a similar kit from Parkside- now this was a really great kit to build- hopefully once they are both painted they should go together quite well. Time for a cup of tea now. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Ok- first brass kit done. Not too bad but a steep learning curve- the kit uses a lot of tabs which are soldered from behind- I found I was using too much solder to begin with. The suspension was really easy to make and my favourite part of the build. I dreaded soldering the roof but this was fairly easy. I'm not happy with the doors- but for a first go it is ok. Off to the paint shop now. Image 3 shows a similar kit from Parkside- now this was a really great kit to build- hopefully once they are both painted they should go together quite well. Time for a cup of tea now. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 You've done OK there. I'd have another look at the door on the brass van but not bad. I have a few Haywood vans in the pile, quite a novel way of building the body. Looking forward to more updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks- I have tidied up the van now and done a small bit of filling- now it's undercoated it looks just like the Peco and Parkside kits. I think I struggled with the doors as they had to be soldered when flat- rather than using tabs. I couldn't use resistance soldering as the frame to the door would have de-soldered. Any tips on how I do this next time?? Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks- I have tidied up the van now and done a small bit of filling- now it's undercoated it looks just like the Peco and Parkside kits. I think I struggled with the doors as they had to be soldered when flat- rather than using tabs. I couldn't use resistance soldering as the frame to the door would have de-soldered. Any tips on how I do this next time?? Dougal. It's all part of the learning curve which starts as a vertical line but soon flattens out! Get yourself some solder of various melting temperatures (C & L do it in small packs,as others do) use the highest temp first then as you progress to the detail bits use the lower temps to stop the original joints coming apart. With the R S U a good tip is to lift your foot off the switch as soon as the joint starts to smoke. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 ^ what he said regarding solder temps. I use 145 & 188 - the main superstructure I do in 188 as far as I can go then switch to 144. I don't have an RSU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 I think I might have used the wrong term- I thought resistance soldering was when you applied solder one surface and then applied heat from the soldering iron to the other side- so not direct contact. What is the correct term? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I *think* the process is called 'sweating', where you 'tin' one or both elements to be soldered and then join them and apply heat to melt the solder between them. Some people like using RSUs and some don't. I've never used one myself but I'm having a tutorial soon at my local club. All I've used is a 60W iron and a mini gas torch, which have both been quite adequate for my experience and needs so far. Mind you, I haven't got to the really fiddly bits yet! And don't worry how long things take - I've been building my vans since October last year and haven't even finished the bodies yet. Click on my Workbench 2 link in the sig below to read the story so far. I started with 3 Lochgorm van kits but I now wish I'd started with my Connoisseur brake van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I got an RSU last year and now find myself using it for most jobs as you only get the heat where you want it and need far less solder to make the joints. The only problem I have had was burning/melting a hole through some thin brass by using to high a setting on the unit, it goes from 0 to 8 and I had it on 8 by error, usually its set on 5 which seems to be OK for most types of joint, but have found that on small parts going down to 1/2 is better, it also works well on this setting for whitemetal parts with semi-low melt solder 130deg. Before I also used an 80watt, 40watt & 25watt irons plus a gas svert torch for heavy items, copper tube boilers for example. I was taught to solder using a 1lb copper bit in a gas oven for soldering up 2ft dia pressure pans for oil filled cables, these were 2 pessed pans with 3/4in sides which were soldered to a 1 1/2in ring all made from tinplate about 22swg. And if you got one that had a hole in the soldering you were docked 2s from your pay, a lot when you only got £7 6s a week! regards mike g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hello there, thankyou for the soldering advice. I'm currently using a cheap and cheerful iron that I bought at B&Q for £12.95. It was ok for my first kit- but I plan to buy a better iron that has temperature control at the Thornbury exhibition in May- this may well be a bit more than twelve pounds. Before then, I will be having a go at an easy build mark coach- probably in the form of a BSK in Blue Grey livery. Out of interest why is it K and not C? I think it stands for 'Brake second Corridor'. Personally I have never spelt Corridor as Korridor! I hope that building the coach kit will help me understand easybuild kits so that I feel more confident when I take on a 121/122 kit later in the year and it will also help me develop my modelling skills. It will be the biggest thing I have ever assembled or painted- so I might try and get hold of rail blue in an aerosol. My airbrush is a cheapee and whilst the coverage is ok for weathering, I don't trust it to cover a coach to a decent standard.( it was ok for n gauge- but those coaches are a tad larger!) For all the soldering experts out there I have a few questions. - what do you clean excess solder with? - do I need some sort of tool to scrape away excess solder? - what is the best or easiest way to clean a brass kit prior to priming? Thanks for the help, Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Been experimenting with roof textures for my vans- I think I read about using tissue paper in a modelling magazine a few years ago. These photos are cruel close ups but I think they look ok from normal viewing distances. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Dougal, The question of soldering comes up regularly on here, I suggest you do a search for "soldering" and settle back for a few days reading as you will find lots of opinions offered. The best advice is try it and settle on the method which suits you best I am afraid it is the old old story of "horses for courses" although many will emphasise that theirs is the only true path! On the coach description question, yes B = brake S = second K= corridor and C = composite (multi class compartments in the same coach). Wally Ps, don't give up on your existing iron just for a perceived advantage persist with the simple one and teach yourself the techniques of time control to vary the joint obtained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thanks Wally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I think your roof looks spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 For all the soldering experts out there I have a few questions. - what do you clean excess solder with? - do I need some sort of tool to scrape away excess solder? - what is the best or easiest way to clean a brass kit prior to priming? Thanks for the help, Dougal. I'm no expert by any means, but I'll try to answer your questions:You can get some braid material that you lay over the excess and heat up with your iron, which then absorbs the solder. I have some but have not used it yet. You can also get fibreglass pen brushes that you rub over the solder to wear it away - some caution is required using these as the tiny fibres that break off can easily bury themselves in your skin and are very irritable. If you're really brave and you can secure the joins, you can coat the join in plenty of flux and run a small pen torch along the join, angling it slightly so excess solder can run away. I've done this once and it works a treat. You can make a scraper from a small screwdriver or file, plus you can buy scrapers. I don't bother and prefer to use the methods above. There are a few cleaners you can use - Viakal, Barkeepers Friend, plus a few others are well thought of. I haven't got that far yet so haven't looked into it in great detail. In regards to your coach question, the letter C was already used up for Composite coaches (before corridors were introduced) so when corridoors were built into coaches a different letter was needed. K suited the bill. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hello Mr Brush and Mr Degree, Mr Brush- Thank you, as someone that has precious little knowledge about the prototype, I find my weathering is more of a best guess than anything else. Glad to know I got it right. Mr Degree, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think I will use an old screwdriver as a scraper and Cif / Jif as a cleaning agent. I have been trying to buy a few cheap brass kits on EBay but some of the prices are just stupid- might as well go to the model shop ad buy brand new. Which kit manufacturer do you prefer? I hear Connoisseur models are straightforward to build. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Been busy with the 12 Ton vans ( 1 Peco and the other is my first attempt at soldering). I have been doing a bit of reading and found out that the vans were either in Bauxite or Grey depending on their braking arrangement (I think). These are now in Grey, with distressed roofs and rusted details. Photo 1. Is with the weathering powder applied prior to a coat of Matt varnish. Photo 2. Is with the varnish applied- this causes a slight colour change- I quite like the effect. Photo 3. Shows the Peco van. I might airbrush the roof with roof dirt next to add a little more texture. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Slowly updating all my stock to match my current modelling ability so that everything has a consistent appearance. These are a few of my parcels stock in BR Blue (and dirt). (No idea what the funny white spot is above the door on the last image) I have kept the weathering fairly subtle- unlike my 12 Ton vans, as these would have been relatively new in service for the 1970's Era that I wish to depict. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Whilst I'm waiting for all the parts for my 33 conversion to arrive, I thought I would have a go at updating some of my coal wagons. These were built from kits in 2009 and the finish is not as good as I can achieve now. The rust is glossy in places which is just not right. Time to break out the paints and weathering powders. Here they are before I begin bothering them. . Dougal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ok so, finished redoing the coal wagons.They should be a bit more realistic than before. I decided to repaint in grey, then add rust weathering powder and finished off with a light coat of frame dirt. I tried a 'weathered black' but once diluted it was a dark green- pretty sure coal dust is not green! Not too bad for a few hours work. (Sorry about the bamboo in the background- it's new). Dougal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Been catching up on a few jobs whilst I await my Lima 33 delivery. My Hymek needed some mild attention due to a rail being broken off from the cab whilst in storage. 5 minutes work with some spare brass wire and it is done. I will repaint the entire loco to BR Blue with wrap around yellow ends once I have finished the 33. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 My Hymek needed some mild attention due to a rail being broken off from the cab whilst in storage... I will repaint the entire loco to BR Blue with wrap around yellow ends once I have finished the 33. For surprisingly little in the way of 'hard-earned' or labour there are several enhancements which can really work wonders on Heljan Hymeks... Here's a link to some photos of mine after receiving the 'treatment'... D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks, I might add that to my to do list. Dougal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Now that my Lima 33 is almost ready for painting, I can turn my attention to expanding my rolling stock. This is going to be my first Coach sized kit. I have really enjoyed working in brass on the Lima upgrade, so I decided to build some brass kits for it to pull. This time, I am going to try using a low melt solder for the white metal bits. Here are the contents, I plan to run a short Rake of three on my layout- they will of course, be painted in a lovely coat of BR Blue. Dougal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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