Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Mornin' all, Is anyone aware of any reasons why a limited number of RTR locos in any future release could not be offered for sale with the key bogie parts affecting conversion to EM or P4, loose in a bag with the model. This would allow the modeller to finish the loco to his spec without needing to take scalpels, knives, mini-saws etc to pristine models and allow the new model to be classed as 'Conversion Friendly'. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I'm afraid that costing is King. I doubt that Bachmann, Hornby et al would consider that the increase in sales offered by including EM or P4 bits to eb worth the additional tooling and production costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bull Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I presume the extra tooling required to make the bogies adaptable would then be passed on to all purchasers, regardless of which gauge they use. This could possibly be seen as not a particularly good selling point. Anyway, don't EM/P4 modellers take extra pleasure in having this little bit of customising to do for themselves? Edit - Pipped at the post, contents don't clash though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 ...I didn't ask for any different parts of any kind....therefore why would there be an extra cost? I simply asked for some critical parts which affect the gauge change to be placed in a bag and be left for the modeller to attach, rather than him having to butcher a brand new loco. Cheers Dave . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Ah. Apologies, thought that you were suggestin new parts to be included. Down to my idiocy I'm afraid I rather get the feeling though that a lot of people would feel that that infringed on the 'RTR' part of a model, not everyone who buys a model would be happy about having to put on any parts at all (even small detail ones), and not everyone can get it looking right even if they are willing to build. I'm afraid that I am counted among their number. The thought of paying over £100 for a model, and then having to assemble bits of it myself is, frankly, not appealing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 ...I didn't ask for any different parts of any kind....therefore why would there be an extra cost? I simply asked for some critical parts which affect the gauge change to be placed in a bag and be left for the modeller to attach, rather than him having to butcher a brand new loco... Dave, This all comes down to how flexible the manufacturing operation is, and what the cost of making the change is. What has to be done on the manufacturing line for this to happen, is to issue an instruction to the relevant stages on the line that specified part identities are not to be attached as standard, but instead to be placed in a bag to travel with the assembly, and eventually to be included in the final pack, with an exterior identifier that shows this model is the variant with the loose parts. There are parts to be procured which have to be in place on the assembly line, which means a variant to the 'Bill of Materials' (BOM). Dependent on what is already on the BOM, there may need to be a larger bag big enough to take the parts, packing space identified for the filled bag to locate in, and provision of the variant exterior identifying label. The variant has to have a unique catalogue number issued to enable it to be identified to the logistics system so that it may be routed to the ordering retailer and thus end customer. This is all relatively small stuff, but staff have to set all this up, and line supervision have to brief the assembly staff of the variant and ensure it happens right: and there is a cost to all this which in the world of lean manufacturing is a real item. Expect a premium on the price, effectively charged for ensuring some work is not done! Finally, this may sound rude, but if you have never worked in batch production assembly line management, don't argue with what this experienced in the art fellow is telling you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 ....no worries 34th...I'm simply trying to understand what is required and whether it is feasible. If there is a charge then that is OK...my time wasted hacking off 'brand new' glued on parts has a value, as does sourcing replacements for damaged components. Edge, I'm not asking for all RTR models to be like this...just a batch to cater for the gauge converters. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Bounce it off a manufacturer, when you get a chance to talk to one of their senior folk at a show. I can guess what you will be told if the person has the relevant experience or insight. Yes, it could be done. It would have to occur as a standard size production batch of identical items. There would be a price increase over standard, which can be estimated. Do you want to put up the money to commission such a batch, if so we can begin to seriously negotiate. (Bachmann to my knowledge will only open such deals with an established bricks and mortar stockist of their range.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Aft'noon all, Based on the recent conversion of a new Dapol Western to 18.83/P4 my number one time saver/priority for 'conversion friendly RTR locos' would be not having brakeblocks which were part of the bogie frame moulding or else having a bogie moulding which was initally created for 18.83 wheelsets. That way the EM and OO wheelsets would obviously fit because they require less space. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I remember asking a manufacturer if it could be possible to buy body mouldings, uncut, unassembled and unpainted, i.e. a plain sprue as it comes straight out of the moulding machine. I was given a very strange look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Hi MP, ...indeed...I'm quickly realising that most aspects of the Tor Giffard project also tend to incite 'strange looks'. More importantly, did you get what you asked for? Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 More importantly, did you get what you asked for? No. My suggestion seemed utterly alien and beyond their comprehension. Even waving money around to cover, and profitably so, the price of asking someone in China to go to a moulding machine, pick 10 sprues from the bin and put them in a bag could not budge their stance. I think the heart of the manufacturer's concern is that they would be losing a sale, or that unauthorised product could somehow enter the supply chain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 ...hmmm...I would have thought that enough like minded souls could be gathered together from several e-forums to offer worthwhile trade to one of the model shops in commissioning special orders from the bigger manufacturers. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 ... unauthorised product could somehow enter the supply chain. Slightly ironic in the context of China...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Mornin' all, Is anyone aware of any reasons why a limited number of RTR locos in any future release could not be offered for sale with the key bogie parts affecting conversion to EM or P4, loose in a bag with the model. This would allow the modeller to finish the loco to his spec without needing to take scalpels, knives, mini-saws etc to pristine models and allow the new model to be classed as 'Conversion Friendly'. Cheers Dave I couldn't agree more Dave. I avoid buying new releases for this very reason (and a lack of readies); not because I can't convert them but because I don't want to destroy something new. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ah. Apologies, thought that you were suggestin new parts to be included. Down to my idiocy I'm afraid I rather get the feeling though that a lot of people would feel that that infringed on the 'RTR' part of a model, not everyone who buys a model would be happy about having to put on any parts at all (even small detail ones), and not everyone can get it looking right even if they are willing to build. I'm afraid that I am counted among their number. The thought of paying over £100 for a model, and then having to assemble bits of it myself is, frankly, not appealing There is one American firm (Con Cor, or someone like that) that supplies its HO diesels like this; ready painted and mostly assembled apart from attaching the body to the chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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