Other Companies' NPCS?

[M.I.B]

I have seen plenty of evidence to allow me to run a couple of LMS full brakes in a parcels train.

 

I know that open wagons and vans migrated, and that NPCS would be on shorter leashes.

 

But I would like to tag on a Gresley full brake, and perhaps a pigeon van too.

 

Any precedents before I apply Rule 1?

 

Thanks

 

(Apologies for the mistake in the title - sadly titles cannot be edited as far as I know).

[The Stationmaster]

Parvans NPCCS vehicles were quite widely travelled in pre-Nationalisation days and even a quick look at the GWR wartime parcels train formations shows LMS vans booked to/from some unexpected places (e.g Neyland).  But I would expect prime stock to be kept on home turf for the 'good' trains so perhaps not so widely travelled as older vehicles.

[M.I.B]

Thanks Mike.

 

Something in the back of my mind about LNER couplings and GW not being compatible?

[Fat Controller]

Thanks Mike.

 

Something in the back of my mind about LNER couplings and GW not being compatible?

The LNER used buck-eyes on their main-line coaching stock, but also had hooks for screw-couplings, so there was no problem there. There was a difference in gangways as well, but this wouldn't normally be a problem for NPCCS. There were some diagrammed runs that took NPCCS off its home teritory. Sausage vans are well known, but there was a regular Nottingham- Neyland Siphon working carrying tobacco, amongst others.

[jwealleans]

If you're running Pigeon traffic specifically then you can have vehicles wandering far and wide.  There was an article about this over a couple of issues of BRM possibly 5 years ago.  Consider where they'd be routed, though - traffic from (say) the North East to the south west would most likely go down the GC to Banbury and thence to the GW. Enough vehicles might justify a special working but penny numbers would most likely be attached to a convenient working (and the empties would have to go home, of course).   Horse boxes wandered far and wide and there was an interesting article in a fairly recent GW Journal detailing the routing and paperwork required to get a single HB from (I think) Lambourn to Newmarket.  There's also a Steve Banks article in an MR from a few years ago about rabbit traffic from somewhere on the GW to Sheffield using 6 wheel Siphons. 

 

Post grouping then vehicles did wander as has already been said and some seem to have been 'adopted' by other regions - there are lots of 1950s photos of ex-SR BYs in East Anglia.  You don't say what era you're modelling but you have a lot more leeway for mixing your stock after 1950ish.

 

To edit the thread title, edit the first post then 'Use Full Editor'.

[Adrian Wintle]

The 1938 Carriage workings show a couple of trains with LNER vans booked on them, though some only go to the edge of GWR territory.

 

BTW, you can have up to 5 LMS full brakes in a GWR train, if you pick the right train on the right day of the week (again from the 1938 CW).

 

The only other booked NPCCS that might not be GWR in there are fish trucks (from/to LNE line or Grimsby depending on the train).

 

Adrian

[Mod6]

(Apologies for the mistake in the title - sadly titles cannot be edited as far as I know).

 

I've done this, you should be able to - edit the OP and click on 'use full editor'.

[Fat Controller]

Just having a flick through the excellent 'The Red Dragon.. and other old friends'

Only a year after Nationalisation, there's a shot on P108 of a parcels train from Swansea to West Wales, hauled by a Grange piloting a Hall. The visible composition is:-

6-wheel road-rail milk tank

Two Gresley BGs

SR CCT/PMV

SR BY

GWR Siphon G

The caption suggestsThere are other the formation also included a Siphon with tobacco from Nottingham to Neyland.

There are other shots of about the same period shewing (GWR spelling)'foreign' vans in parcels/passenger trains around Swansea in the same book.

[chrisf]

I've been rummaging in carriage working programmes - always a joy. In addition to the Neyland and Nottingham Siphin G for tobacco there was a working between Swansea and Nottingham for which one ER brake van, 70598, and one WR BG, 1181, were specified. If you have seen the GWR full brake on the Severn Valley branded "Penzance, Leeds and Cardiff", it's genuine - there were five or six of them. An LMR brake van was booked to run from Holyhead to Paddington and a Siphon G from Manchester London Road [as it then was] to Paddington.

 

Some workings had specific vans allocated and branded accordingly. Others were just listed as "large van", whatever that was, or even just "van". Paddington to Sheffield was one such so in theory it could have been anything!

 

Chris

[Fat Controller]

I've been rummaging in carriage working programmes - always a joy. In addition to the Neyland and Nottingham Siphin G for tobacco there was a working between Swansea and Nottingham for which one ER brake van, 70598, and one WR BG, 1181, were specified. If you have seen the GWR full brake on the Severn Valley branded "Penzance, Leeds and Cardiff", it's genuine - there were five or six of them. An LMR brake van was booked to run from Holyhead to Paddington and a Siphon G from Manchester London Road [as it then was] to Paddington.

 

Some workings had specific vans allocated and branded accordingly. Others were just listed as "large van", whatever that was, or even just "van". Paddington to Sheffield was one such so in theory it could have been anything!

 

Chris

Curious the Players' traffic went to Neyland; I'd always thought of Pompey and Plymouth as being 'Senior Service' territory..

Someone mentioned rabbit traffic; was this on the Barnstaple branch?

[The Stationmaster]

Another interesting one I have just found is in the November 1939 War Emergency working.  The 2.58 a.m. Swindon - Carmarthen which was basically a combination of empty milk tanks, a number of Siphon Gs, and 'Fish Trucks' which originated at Yarmouth.  But extreme rear it conveyed a brake van from Nottingham to Swansea which was booked to be GWR van No.55 or an LNER van on alternate days.  It would appear that GWR van  No.1129 was probably the train brakevan as it worked through from Swindon to Carmarthen

[M.I.B]

Thank you all so much for your assistance and interest,

 

and also for explaining how to correct spullink errors in titles.

 

Yarmouth to Swindon to Camarthen is a fair round trip.

[M.I.B]

Having stumbled across the Pigeon posting in Prototype, I have opted for the 5 car rake option. BG(P) BG(P) BTO (or BTK) BG & BG

 

5 x teak 60footers behind a Grange I think - will look great.

 

And I am a huge fan of BGs for some unknown reason. I will soom have more NPCCS than PCS.

[richbrummitt]

I will soom have more NPCCS than PCS.

I already do. I find them more interesting. I don't worry about it though: I will build the stack of coach kits one day.