Class 47 and Class 45 sound / engines

[SGJ]

I am curious, not having listened to a class 45 for 25 years do the engines sound like class 47s ?

Apparently class 47s have a 12LDA28C engine inside them which according to Wikipedia is a modified version of the same engine that Class 45s have being  a 12LDA28B.

The reason I am asking is because I am thinking of adding sound to a Replica class 45 ( with high intensity headlight ) and I have a spare Bachmann cl47 sound to put into the replica model.

Any thoughts appreciated

SGJ

[pheaton]

47s and 45s 44s and 46s engines to all intents and purposes are exactly the same.

 

47s have a 12lda28c Engine 45s and 46s have a 12lda28b engine.... a 45 and 46 has smaller intercoolers and is only 2500hp, a 47 has larger intercoolers and was originally set to deliver 2750hp but this was derated to 2580hp when stress fractures were foun in the late 60s. A 44 has a 12lda28A engine and does not have intercoolers and is only 2300hp,

 

47 heads pistons and liners and turbos are all interchangeable (on 45149 we have all 47 heads) with peaks, as is the heat exchanger and oil filter pack, and most of the water and oil fuel pipe work. Other key differences are 46s and 47s on  having brush electrical equipment also have an hydrostatic cooling fan where as 44s and 45s have an electric cooling fan......however some 47s also have an electric fan 47404 being one....

 

DO 47s and 45s and 44s and 46s sound the same.....

 

YES AND NO

 

whilst peaks and 47s share exactly the same design of silencer there are key differences in the way the engine operates which does affect the sound.

 

45/1s and 47s with electric heat have had the engine idle speed raised to 384RPM instead of 250rpm of a non electric heat loco....much faster revving however all sulzer 12lda's top out at 750RPM

 

so if your loco is a 45/1 it needs to have a faster idle sound (like the howes one which is based on 45133) or a 47/7 the Bachmann is based on a 47/4 which is an exception to the rule, 47/4s i believe create electric heat off the main generator rather than the ETH alternator/generator so im not sure if the idle speed was raised

 

45/0s 46s 44s and 47/0s and 47/3s and im sure some other sub classes of 47s were either steam heat or NO heat which means the engine idle speed is 250rpm.

 

peaks also have a much much louder triple pump....very distinctive when then engine is not running where as the triple pump on a 47 is much quieter

 

and although it has no impact on sound a 44 and 45 are also 220v machines, everything else on BR was 110v hence the reason 45s and 44 had 4 full size battery boxes. 96 2v cells compared to 48 cells on a 46 and 47 and everything else on BR

 

45s and 44s also had a very distinctive fan noise as well.

 

44s 45s and 46s were also never fitted with spirax valves (tick tick tick tick tick) although some have been "retrofitted" in preservation again 45149 is one of them. (for info the spirax valves function is to remove water from the air system, they were commonly placed at the lowest point so the water would collect above them, then every second or a so a valve opens automatically letting the water out of the system. 45s 44s and 46s have a manual water trap which collects water and is required to be drained frequently.

 

if your ever at the GWR let me know im happy to show you the difference in sounds of a 45 and a 47

 

31s and 37s again have exactly the same engine (12csvt) bar the intercoolers....a 31 has no intercoolers and is 1460hp and 37 has intercoolers and is 1750hp, they sound completely different because the electrical equipment (31 being brush) and a 37 being the "evil empire" (english electric) loads the engines up in different ways to each other, a 31 is a very smooth transition to full power and a 37 with its much cruder electrical control gives you a good growl if you ask for it.

 

did you also know that 56s and 58s are actually the same engine again as a 37 with more pistons and different turbo and silencer setups.....a 56 without silencers sounds very very similar to a 37.

Edited April 12, 2013 by pheaton

[two tone green]

Very good explanation, could not ask for anything better.

 

I certainly learned a few thing. Thanks.

[Baby Deltic]

The other thing about 45's and 46's is the compressors are bl**dy noisy. As mentioned, when the roof fan is going full chat on a class 45, the roar is sometimes louder than the engine.

 

I had the pleasure nof riding behind 45133 and 47580 at the Mid Norfolk Sulzer Gala:

 

Edited September 2, 2013 by Baby Deltic

[pheaton]

Your facing No2 end therefore the No2 compressor is pretty much right next to you in the nose!

 

also bear in mind peaks have those stonking great grills where as a brush 4s body is enclosed so much more sound to be had on a peak.....

 

the fan yes its loud, but then it does have a 250amp fuse its the second largest motor on the locomotive second only to the traction motors.

Edited September 3, 2013 by pheaton

[25901]

Are yes 45's 220v batterys, remember well my bad back after pulling a crap set out of 45112 and putting in a "less" crap set in 

[Creeping Jane]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, what sound decoder/chip would you recommend for a 45

 

47s and 45s 44s and 46s engines to all intents and purposes are exactly the same.

 

47s have a 12lda28c Engine 45s and 46s have a 12lda28b engine.... a 45 and 46 has smaller intercoolers and is only 2500hp, a 47 has larger intercoolers and was originally set to deliver 2750hp but this was derated to 2580hp when stress fractures were foun in the late 60s. A 44 has a 12lda28A engine and does not have intercoolers and is only 2300hp,

 

47 heads pistons and liners and turbos are all interchangeable (on 45149 we have all 47 heads) with peaks, as is the heat exchanger and oil filter pack, and most of the water and oil fuel pipe work. Other key differences are 46s and 47s on  having brush electrical equipment also have an hydrostatic cooling fan where as 44s and 45s have an electric cooling fan......however some 47s also have an electric fan 47404 being one....

 

DO 47s and 45s and 44s and 46s sound the same.....

 

YES AND NO

 

whilst peaks and 47s share exactly the same design of silencer there are key differences in the way the engine operates which does affect the sound.

 

45/1s and 47s with electric heat have had the engine idle speed raised to 384RPM instead of 250rpm of a non electric heat loco....much faster revving however all sulzer 12lda's top out at 750RPM

 

so if your loco is a 45/1 it needs to have a faster idle sound (like the howes one which is based on 45133) or a 47/7 the Bachmann is based on a 47/4 which is an exception to the rule, 47/4s i believe create electric heat off the main generator rather than the ETH alternator/generator so im not sure if the idle speed was raised

 

45/0s 46s 44s and 47/0s and 47/3s and im sure some other sub classes of 47s were either steam heat or NO heat which means the engine idle speed is 250rpm.

 

peaks also have a much much louder triple pump....very distinctive when then engine is not running where as the triple pump on a 47 is much quieter

 

and although it has no impact on sound a 44 and 45 are also 220v machines, everything else on BR was 110v hence the reason 45s and 44 had 4 full size battery boxes. 96 2v cells compared to 48 cells on a 46 and 47 and everything else on BR

 

45s and 44s also had a very distinctive fan noise as well.

 

44s 45s and 46s were also never fitted with spirax valves (tick tick tick tick tick) although some have been "retrofitted" in preservation again 45149 is one of them. (for info the spirax valves function is to remove water from the air system, they were commonly placed at the lowest point so the water would collect above them, then every second or a so a valve opens automatically letting the water out of the system. 45s 44s and 46s have a manual water trap which collects water and is required to be drained frequently.

 

if your ever at the GWR let me know im happy to show you the difference in sounds of a 45 and a 47

 

31s and 37s again have exactly the same engine (12csvt) bar the intercoolers....a 31 has no intercoolers and is 1460hp and 37 has intercoolers and is 1750hp, they sound completely different because the electrical equipment (31 being brush) and a 37 being the "evil empire" (english electric) loads the engines up in different ways to each other, a 31 is a very smooth transition to full power and a 37 with its much cruder electrical control gives you a good growl if you ask for it.

 

did you also know that 56s and 58s are actually the same engine again as a 37 with more pistons and different turbo and silencer setups.....a 56 without silencers sounds very very similar to a 37.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but what sound decoder chip would you recommend for a 45? Mine is a 45/0 (The Mainline D49). I notice the one from Olivias has spirax (although it doesn't have to be used), so I'm guessing that would not be a correct choice? I know I could get a better model, but as this was given as a present back in 1981, I'll be keeping it. Many thanks - Peter

Edited May 19, 2018 by Creeping Jane

[AMJ]

People have their own favourite suppliers.

 

I'd suggest a chip from SWD or Bit via Charlie Petty (DC Kits).

 

If fitting into an older locomotive without plug's I'd recommend getting a harness so that you can test with a cheap chip before plugging in the sound one. Harnesses are available from Bachmann from most reputable shops.