Black Patriots lining colours1947-1955?

[bob hughes60]

I am trying to recreate the Patriot Lady Godiva having a spare 4mm black body shell and tender body as she would have been post nationalisation and early fifties.

She would have had  British Railways logos on the tender (photos seen)

However the lining done by Hornby was white and red. (margate licence??)

A fellow modeller has suggested that the lining was grey and red (as per mixed traffic)

A transfer company has suggested the correct colours to go with the black would be straw and maroon.

I have not come across any colour pics for the period which would define correct lining colours.

Can any fellow modellers enlighten me??

I understand that Patriots were painted green with orange lining from 1955 onwards.

Many thanks

Bob Hughes

[LMS2968]

There are two completely different lined black liveries. The LMS 1946 version had a broad, maroon line with thinner straw edging both sides of the full width of the running plate angle; and maroon edges to panels with a straw line inside. This often appeared from 1948 with BR numbers and sometimes BRITISH RAILWAYS along the tender sides, but I dont recall it with a BR crest. 

 

The other version was the  normalBR mixed traffic livery with the lining inset from panel edges. The colours were, from middle outwards, red, narrow cream and grey with a small gap between the red and cream. They are easily distinguished on photos.

[bob hughes60]

Thanks very much for clarifying.What I meant was British Railways lettering not BR early crest cycling lions etc. but my post does not make this clear.

Bob Hughes

[jjnewitt]

Hi Bob,

 

Just to clarify something the Patriots were painted BR lined green from mid 1949 onwards not from 1955. As LMS 2968 states there were two versions of British Railways black livery,one with LMS and one with LNW 'mixed traffic' lining. There were a few the got the mixed traffic black but this was likely to have been confined to those engines recieveing heavy generals between nationalsiation and the introduction of lined green (the LMS tended to repaint their locos at heavy overhauls and the practise was perpetuated under BR). The latest I've seen a picture of a BR black Patriot is October 1953. 45516 was still in mixed traffic black with British Railways on the tender at this time. I don't think I've ever seen a picture of a BR black Patriot with a crest.

 

As for 45519 she had (according to the record cards in The Book of the Patriots) heavy generals between May and July 1947 and again between July and September 1951. There is a picture of her dated May 1952, in the afformentioned book, showing her in lined green so the later of the two heavy general dates is likely to have been when she was repainted. Before that she was probably in LMS black with British Railways on the tender but only a picture would confirm this.

 

Justin