Guest Max Stafford Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Quite, Beast. Quite...! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 20, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2010 The current story doing the rounds is that the train brake failed (presumably due to the extreme conditions). A source from another operator tells me that their practice in such conditions is to have regular running brake tests during the journey to negate the possibility of a failure like this. Although obviously unsubstantiated, it has been suggested by insiders that running brake tests may not have been carried out in this case. Dave. Dave. Running brake tests are (or at leasst used to be) a standard requirement, especially on long descending gradients . Presumably in this case we might also be talking about a Driver with very limited experience over the road and who might not therefore be used to all the nuances it involves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Can I just say guys that speculating about what the driver did or didn't do, before the investigation may heve been completed is not really helpful. Stationmaster - suggesting that the driver might not have been skilled enough to have been working over the road is a little OTT on a public forum I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_R Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I'm guessing that comment related to the fact it's a new working and the driver, presumably being a DBS guy, would only likely have done route learning rather than having extensive experience on the route. I have no doubt he is more than familiar with the loco and stock operation as the whole lot is around 10 years old. Unless the report comes up with any revelations i think we'd best leave it as a 'multiple factors combined' and let the professionals sort it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2010 Can I just say guys that speculating about what the driver did or didn't do, before the investigation may heve been completed is not really helpful. Stationmaster - suggesting that the driver might not have been skilled enough to have been working over the road is a little OTT on a public forum I feel. What I did wonder was if he might have very limited experience over the road - which is not the same as suggesting he was 'not skilled enough'. If he was 'not skilled enough' he wouldn't have been driving. And as you rightly say we won't in any event know the full details until the RAIB report (or possibly an interim report and some more immediate recommendations) appears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I'm guessing that comment related to the fact it's a new working and the driver, presumably being a DBS guy, would only likely have done route learning rather than having extensive experience on the route. I have no doubt he is more than familiar with the loco and stock operation as the whole lot is around 10 years old. Unless the report comes up with any revelations i think we'd best leave it as a 'multiple factors combined' and let the professionals sort it out. What I did wonder was if he might have very limited experience over the road - which is not the same as suggesting he was 'not skilled enough'. If he was 'not skilled enough' he wouldn't have been driving. And as you rightly say we won't in any event know the full details until the RAIB report (or possibly an interim report and some more immediate recommendations) appears. With respect guys, although it might have been the first Stobart trip worked by DBS, how do you know any years or months experience the driver has over this route ? There are drivers I've known for thirty years who have "passported" their knowledge from one TOC/FOC to another, but in addition, DBS nee EWS had had drivers working over this road for as long as the company has existed. I think you'll find that the snowplough work in which DBS are contracted to Network Rail is just one example of DBS route knowledge over this route. Sorry, but I feel strongly about online "suggestions" about how "competent" the driver is, before the investigation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meple Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Given that train brakes are supposed to be fail-safe just how did the breaks fail not-safe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Given that train brakes are supposed to be fail-safe just how did the breaks fail not-safe? Possible reasons include: - Brake pipe blocked or not connected up properly at start of journey and brake test not done - brakes are fully released. - Brake pipe becomes blocked or brake pipe cock closed during journey - brakes to rear of blockage cannot be applied when needed. - Repeated brake applications without enough time to replenish air reservoirs - brakes reduced or ineffective on train. - Leakage from air reservoir - brakes reduced or ineffective on vehicle(s) affected. - Damage to brake actuators or pads - braking reduced or ineffective on vehicle(s) affected. I am not trying to speculate about what might have happened here, just to list them in general terms. There are probably a few more I haven't throught of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2010 Possible reasons include: - Brake pipe blocked or not connected up properly at start of journey and brake test not done - brakes are fully released. - Brake pipe becomes blocked or brake pipe cock closed during journey - brakes to rear of blockage cannot be applied when needed. - Repeated brake applications without enough time to replenish air reservoirs - brakes reduced or ineffective on train. - Leakage from air reservoir - brakes reduced or ineffective on vehicle(s) affected. - Damage to brake actuators or pads - braking reduced or ineffective on vehicle(s) affected. I am not trying to speculate about what might have happened here, just to list them in general terms. There are probably a few more I haven't throught of. One of which is possible icing/frozen snow build-up on either the brake discs or pads (although hopefully modern designs should prevent that). - or something adrift with the wheelslide protection due to icing although I would hope that too is a past problem which modern design would have dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 It's a very fine line between hypothesising on possible technical matters and appearing to attribute cause and responsibility. I think we've gone far enough in advance of any official report so I'm locking this one until such time as one is published. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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