Smoking Accommodation on EMUs

[Adam1701D]

I'm revamping the Electra range of vinyls to be printed professionally, rather than doing everything at home. One of the benefits the the ability to include clear windows with printed no-smoking signs and first class signs.

 

Now, for modern stock it's easy since everywhere has been no-smoking for years. It gets a bit interesting when turning back the clock to NSE days and before. Can anyone help with the following questions?

 

On a typical 4-car EMU, where was the smoking allowed? I'm particularly interested in the 4-VEP, 4-CIG and Refurbished 4-CEP. I imagine that the percentage of no-smoking accommodation may have increased as habits changed.

 

I recall on the GN, the 312s had smoking in the PMS and the endmost first class compartment. The 313s went all-no smoking when LT introduced their ban.

 

I would be most greatful for any assistance, as a clear answer is proving hard to find. 

[Ray H]

310's were the same as the 312's from memory.

 

I believe that the 321's (on the LMR) had a similar arrangement to the 310 for the first class i.e. behind one of the cabs. I can't recall what the 2nd/standard class arrangements were.

[Adam1701D]

Not sure about the 321s but the 317s on the GN had the entire PMS as smoking and this was later reduced to one end of the TC in later NSE years. 

 

That was cramped and pretty unpleasant!

 

I'm about to take the plunge with a blue/grey 4-CIG - think I'll leave the labels off the MBS and the first class at one end.

[TomJ]

Just a quick thread hijack!! When you revamp the range any chance of doing one of the Mk2 micro buffets? Preferably in NSE. Then I can complete my Waterloo - Exeter rake. I've made the rest of the coached with your overlays and Ultima models vents and TPM gangway etches and they are superb.

Good to see the range is carrying on.

[mjkerr]

When you revamp the range any chance of doing one of the Mk2 micro buffets? Preferably in NSE.

Adam is usually more than happy to provide customised requirements, I've had a few done now

Obviously the timescale takes into account amendments 

However, I recently had one Mark 2D TSO(T) in ScotRail created for me, from suppled reference photos

This included the window boards, which I then applied separately

 

My next order will be for just the window boards

The first set is for converting an existing Mark 2D TSO in ScotRail livery, by also adding the required red stripe

The second set is for converting a Mark 1 BSO in Blue / Grey livery

[Flying Pig]

I'm about to take the plunge with a blue/grey 4-CIG - think I'll leave the labels off the MBS and the first class at one end.

 

The layout diagrams in "Southern Region Multiple Unit Trains" published by the Southern Electric Group have this information, though obviously only for Southern units (up to class 455 in my 1984 edition). Amazon is showing second hand copies here.

 

The 4-CIG is shown as follows:

 

DTC, Diagram 452 (4 x 1st class compartments + 2nd class saloon): two compartments adjacent cab smoking; two compartments adjacent saloon non-smoking; 2nd class saloon smoking

DTC, Diagram 453 (3 x 1st class + 1 x std class compartment + 2nd class saloon): not drawn

MBSO - non-smoking

TSO - non-smoking

[Pete 75C]

The layout of the CIG (above) tallies with my memory of the VEP. If you wanted a smoke, you'd head for either of the driving trailers. from memory, the two centre cars were non-smoking.

[Flying Pig]

The layout for the 4-VEP in the book is

 

DTC - non-smoking except for one 1st class compartment (second from the lavatory end)

TSO - non-smoking

MBSO - smoking

 

Presumably this is correct for 1984.  Was the arrangement perhaps changed when they were refurbished?

[andyman7]

The layout for the 4-VEP in the book is

 

DTC - non-smoking except for one 1st class compartment (second from the lavatory end)

TSO - non-smoking

MBSO - smoking

 

Presumably this is correct for 1984.  Was the arrangement perhaps changed when they were refurbished?

That tallies with my memories for the final years when smoking was permitted. After refurb, the VEP MBSO acquired an extra pair of seating bays on the other side of the (shortened) guards van and these were always non-smoking

[Adam1701D]

Many thanks for all the replies so far.

[eastwestdivide]

Various pictures of the refurbished 4-CEP/411 in Jaffa Cake livery show no-smoking signs on the motor coaches, which tallies with my memory of them immediately after refurbishment - we tended to ride just behind the cab over the motor bogie, and I wouldn't have done that if it was the smoking coach. I'd guess that the trailer second was the single smoking coach, with one or two of the four 1st-class compartments also. Pretty sure the single 2nd-class compartment in the brake composite was non-smoking, as that was another favoured spot to sit. I've looked through my photos, but nothing conclusive.

More generally, there was certainly a shift in the allocation of non-smoking accommodation on EMUs, with the result that in later years, you'd get seats with ashtrays built into the arm rests even in non-smoking accommodation.

[keefer]

there are two EMU diagram books on the Barrowmore website.

 

older book, more inclined to 'original' layouts: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BREMUDiagramsIssue.pdf

 

newer book with most mods/refurbs, generally in the 1980s : http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Diagram_Book_210_for_Issue.pdf

 

i think most pages which show some modification/refurb. are dated - e.g. in the 2nd. book pages are dated from 1981-1989 depending on the class/vehicle type/mods made etc.

 

what they all show is the smoking/non-smoking layout at the time of the issue - indeed some seem to be changed only by making more smoking accommodation into non-smoking (can often be seen as the addition of handwritten note on the diagram)

 

(note they're quite big files and that vehicles are arranged in order of type, not class, so you will have to trawl through to find all vehicles used in one unit)

[eastwestdivide]

That's handy. Refurb 411 coaches on pages 26, 356, 398.