LNWR Coaches, GWR Coaches 4mm

[Compound2632]

On 18/02/2024 at 21:36, Methuselah said:

Hi Peter,

                    I'm guessing that you've seen this photo - posting in case you haven't. The 'BLAKE' wagons were to be seen in number on the Tenbury Branch. Do you recognise the graphics on the other coal wagons....?

 

Cheers,

                    Stephen.

 

 

While this should be exhibit A for anyone wanting to model a country station on a main line - the entire layout of goods loop with trailing connections is in plain sight. 

[Methuselah]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

That's the kind of photo that can singlehandedly inspire decades of modelling. 

 

....and a good illustration of the railways general aversion to facing points...especially on fast lines.

[drduncan]

On 18/02/2024 at 21:36, Methuselah said:

Hi Peter,

                    I'm guessing that you've seen this photo - posting in case you haven't. The 'BLAKE' wagons were to be seen in number on the Tenbury Branch. Do you recognise the graphics on the other coal wagons....?

 

Cheers,

                    Stephen.

 

The coal wagons with the diamond in the white circle could be the South Wales Coal Company of Hereford. I'm sure there is an entry for them in one of the Lightmoor PO collections books.

Duncan

[drduncan]

On 18/02/2024 at 21:36, Methuselah said:

Hi Peter,

                    I'm guessing that you've seen this photo - posting in case you haven't. The 'BLAKE' wagons were to be seen in number on the Tenbury Branch. Do you recognise the graphics on the other coal wagons....?

 

Cheers,

                    Stephen.

 

The coal wagons with the diamond in the white circle could be the South Wales Coal Company of Hereford. I'm sure there is an entry for them in one of the Lightmoor PO collections books.

Duncan

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, drduncan said:

The coal wagons with the diamond in the white circle could be the South Wales Coal Company of Hereford. I'm sure there is an entry for them in one of the Lightmoor PO collections books.

 

Keith Turton's Tenth Collection, pp. 123-4, with an Gloucester official photo and a photo of three at the head of a train behind a Belpaire-boilered dean Goods, possibly on the Newport-Hereford line. Looks like a good match. Sometime between 1912 and 1918 the firm was taken over by Wm. Blake & Sons though the trading name was retained until 1922.

 

So, depending on the date of the photo, what we see here could be either the wagons of two rival merchants, or of just one - Blake - the ex-South Wales coal Co. wagons being yet to be repainted or re-lettered for Blake.

[Brassey]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Keith Turton's Tenth Collection, pp. 123-4, with an Gloucester official photo and a photo of three at the head of a train behind a Belpaire-boilered dean Goods, possibly on the Newport-Hereford line. Looks like a good match. Sometime between 1912 and 1918 the firm was taken over by Wm. Blake & Sons though the trading name was retained until 1922.

 

So, depending on the date of the photo, what we see here could be either the wagons of two rival merchants, or of just one - Blake - the ex-South Wales coal Co. wagons being yet to be repainted or re-lettered for Blake.

 

I have a date of 1932 for that photo so the latter scenario likely applies.

[Compound2632]

31 minutes ago, Brassey said:

I have a date of 1932 for that photo so the latter scenario likely applies.

 

Interesting. If the South Wales Coal Co. was taken over by Blake & Sons by 1918, it seems extraordinarily unlikely that their wagons would not have been repainted in Blake's livery by 1932. So the reported information must be wrong somewhere!

[Brassey]

On 21/02/2024 at 19:24, Compound2632 said:

 

Interesting. If the South Wales Coal Co. was taken over by Blake & Sons by 1918, it seems extraordinarily unlikely that their wagons would not have been repainted in Blake's livery by 1932. So the reported information must be wrong somewhere!

 

I would have given the same answer that they were South Wales Coal Co. wagons though @drduncan got there first!

 

The photo is hard to date but the chimneys have been replaced and there is now a small chimney pipe were previously the Gents was.  This was converted to a lamp room and the Gents moved next to the bridge.  I don't have a date for this change but if I went through sufficient old O/s maps I could probably spot it.  I think it might have been in LMS days.

 

Turton is interesting in that it states the wagons were repainted by Blake but has an advert dated 1922 which still uses the trading name and gives Depots at places including Woofferton.  With my marketing head on, I would have thought that brand would have been valuable and would have been retained.

 

On the photo in Turton Vol 10 Page 124, the Dean Goods has a belpaire, the dome painted over and, most notably, the smokebox has visible rivets.  Again I don't know when this change to riveting happened but I'm sure it's post Edwardian possibly 1920's.  So although the date of 1932 might be out it is probably after 1918 and into the 1920's.

 

I also have acquired a RTR Dapol model of a South Wales Coal Co. liveried wagon .  This is longer than my other wagons and is probably to the 1923 spec so of no use to me.  Would Dapol produce a wagon that was obsolete after 1918?  Maybe Turton is wrong.

 

Here's my take on the scene.

 

Edited February 24 by Brassey

[drduncan]

When it comes to private owner wagon liveries, I get the impression the Dapol take the 1980s Hornby approach - any body will do…

Duncan

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, drduncan said:

When it comes to private owner wagon liveries, I get the impression the Dapol take the 1980s Hornby approach - any body will do…

 

Frankly that's the approach taken by all the manufacturers, even Rapido, who, having produced a splendid RCH 1907 spec Charles Roberts wagon, have proceeded to put liveries from non-Charles Roberts wagons on it.

 

Who cares, it's only a wagon...

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 minute ago, drduncan said:

When it comes to private owner wagon liveries, I get the impression the Dapol take the 1980s Hornby approach - any body will do…

Duncan

Most modellers won't care or be bothered if they did know.

 

Other RTR manufacturers may do the same, e.g. the Rapido "Not- Quite-Minks" (although at least they point it out).

[richbrummitt]

39 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Most modellers won't care or be bothered if they did know.

 

Other RTR manufacturers may do the same, e.g. the Rapido "Not- Quite-Minks" (although at least they point it out).

Do Rapido mould or print their wagons? Having done the exercise to produce most of the various iron bodied ‘minks’ of the Welsh companies I know it’s not a big effort to modify a CAD model once you’ve done one style. Some of the differences are subtle but TV bodies are quite obviously different due to the increased length. If a manufacturer is committing to mould tooling then it makes more commercial sense to only have one tool and hope to sell more by offering a choice of livery even if it is then imperfect as a whole. 

[Brassey]

I think RMWeb has lost the pics of these wagons so for posterity here's the shot again from the other angle:

 

 

Couplings missing!

[Methuselah]

1 hour ago, Brassey said:

I think RMWeb has lost the pics of these wagons so for posterity here's the shot again from the other angle:

 

 

Couplings missing!

What make are these please Peter...?

[Brassey]

1 hour ago, Methuselah said:

What make are these please Peter...?

Hi Stephen

 

The Morris & Holloway wagon is a Slaters pre-lettered kit that I applied matt varnish to before assembly, mainly to protect the lettering.

 

The BLAKE wagons I think were Cambrian kits with raised ends.  According to "The modeller's sketchbook of Private Owner Wagons" Book 1, Blake wagons were 5 plank, red (not oxide) with black corner plates.  I think the varnish has warmed the red up a bit but I quite like it.  The decals I think were Modelmaster which I bought at a show from the guy who used to have Parkside Dundas.  I've found them here of the web but there could be other sources:  https://www.hamodels.net/modelmaster-private-owner-4mm-decals-blake-hereford.html

 

All are on Brassmasters Private Owner wagon underframes.  For anything that's going to spend most of its life static in the yard I think I can justify these underframes for their detail.

[Methuselah]

10 hours ago, Brassey said:

Hi Stephen

 

The Morris & Holloway wagon is a Slaters pre-lettered kit that I applied matt varnish to before assembly, mainly to protect the lettering.

 

The BLAKE wagons I think were Cambrian kits with raised ends.  According to "The modeller's sketchbook of Private Owner Wagons" Book 1, Blake wagons were 5 plank, red (not oxide) with black corner plates.  I think the varnish has warmed the red up a bit but I quite like it.  The decals I think were Modelmaster which I bought at a show from the guy who used to have Parkside Dundas.  I've found them here of the web but there could be other sources:  https://www.hamodels.net/modelmaster-private-owner-4mm-decals-blake-hereford.html

 

All are on Brassmasters Private Owner wagon underframes.  For anything that's going to spend most of its life static in the yard I think I can justify these underframes for their detail.

Thanks Peter - that's really useful. 🙂