Old track help. HO (OO) x HOe (OO9) crossing.

[Satan's Goldfish]

I have in my possesion 2 very old items of track that i think may be of interest in this Forum and i am curious for more information on. They are 2x 16.5mm/9mm crossings. I know they're more than 30 years old, probably from the '70s, but quite how old they are i do not know and there's no marks on the bottom to indicate which manufacturer originally built them. I'm rashly assuming they're supposed to be HO/HOe in scale.

 

 

Only 1 of them has 2 original fish-plates remaining, on the standard gauge. they are an unusual 'split' design rather than a continuous shape like all modern ones are. From what i can remember from when they first came into my possesion the narrow gauge ones were a similar style but slightly smaller.

 

The standard gauge appears to be as near as i can tell code 100 rail and connects very nicely here to Hornby track using standard Hornby fish-plates. Placed side by side, the narrow gauge holds them at a convincing track spacing.

 

 

The Narrow gauge is larger than code 80 and too big for code 80 fishplates. Unfortunately as mentioned earlier i don't have any of the right fish-plates for that anymore. The sleepers look more like N gauge than narrow gauge but when compared to some Peco code 80 flexi track they can be seen to be slightly chunkier.

 

Judging by their lack of rust compared to all my other 'old' track, they're not made with steel rails. the crossing angle looks to be roughly 30 degrees.

 

 

So, does anyone know any history of these items of track? Who made them, when, and for how long? Is there a reason for the Narrow gauge track to look more like N gauge and what code rail is it?

 

One day i would like to incorporate them into a 4mm layout, but what UK prototype examples are there, if any, out there to take inspiration from? Or would they be best as a feature of a small 3.5mm layout if European practice is more realistic for them?

 

Thanks, I hope somebody can answer my questions, if not i hope you all find them interesting anyway.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Indeed curious that the narrow gauge is actually N gauge with regards to sleepering.

 

I am not aware of any manufacturer making anything like this apart from the East Germans (currently branded as Tillig). But the overall appearance is more like Lima.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Joseph_Pestell

[eastworld]

I believe that Mehanotehnika made such items so these may well have been made by them.

 

I think they were Yugoslavian - may still be going I believe.

 

Stu

[Satan's Goldfish]

I believe that Mehanotehnika made such items so these may well have been made by them.

 

I think they were Yugoslavian - may still be going I believe.

 

Stu

 

I couldn't find any images for their track at all. Quick wikipedia reading says they became 'Mehano' but are now out of business and mostly mentions HO stuff.

 

In a similar vein, i've found all of these dual gauge goodies from Tillig (Thanks Joseph!) which also have similar crossings, but not such a severe angle and more realisticly sized Narrow Gauge sleepers:

 

http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Main_Catalogue_Index_Dual_Gauge_99.html

 

On a couple of those pictures are fish-plates with a 'tongue' at the ends which are similar to the ones on the standard gauge. Doing a little more digging, the fish plates look a lot like these but with a central notch cut where the 2 rail ends would meet:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5804-supplier-00-fishplate/

 

And as clear a shot as i can get of one on the crossing:

 

 

Googling 'Tillig Fish Plate' did not prove useful! However i am liking their selection of dual gauge tracks. Is there any UK prototype for dual gauging or am i best to go European?

 

Thanks

Edited August 7, 2013 by Satan's Goldfish

[alfsboy]

I think they were Lilliput  or Roco but thats only from memory .Lilliput rings a stronger bell .I remember seeing them in the 60's.

Edited August 7, 2013 by alfsboy

[shortliner]

Possibly Lilliput, Roco, Piko (East German) or Bemo - Similar are currently available from Tillig, but I think the angle and length is different. Is there nothing stamped on the underside of the sleepers? Very vague possibility that they were made by Joueff, who did a small amount of HOe - AFAIK Eggerbahn only made straights and curves to form an oval for their trainsets

Edited August 7, 2013 by shortliner

[Satan's Goldfish]

So many options! Can't get any image off google searches for any of them :-(

 

Shortliner, even looking in really obscure places on them i can't find any marks that would give a clue to who made them. I'm 99% sure they're not scratch built judging by the plastic sleep moulds, but the use of N gauge sllepers rather than HOe sleepers is still puzzling.

 

Cheers

[Dr. John]

In the US they were marketed by AHM back in the early 70's as part of their Mini-Trains line (HOn2 1/2 or HOe). I believe Roco was the manufacturer. They were only offered with code 100 brass rail in the states.

[BR60103]

I'm pretty sure they were intended for N and HO.

I've always wondered what the flangeway standards were. Do the N trains have to bump through HO size gaps? Are the gaps for the N wheels smaller?

[eastworld]

In the back of my mind I can remember this question being answered on another forum. It was indeed AHM (and not Mehanotehnika as my memory told me incorrrectly) - intended for HO and HOn30 use, not HO and N. If you want to know what HOn30 is see http://www.hon30.org/ - basically HO scale but 9mm gauge track scaling out at around 2ft 6in gauge but frequently used to represent others such as 2 foot gauge.

 

 

Stu

[MikeOxon]

see http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2453980431_d5120b57b4_o.jpg

for a photo from AHM Mini Trains catalogue.  The crossing was part no. 2111

 

There's more background info. at http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/id22.html

 

Mike

[Satan's Goldfish]

Champion, that looks like it. Never heard of ahm before. I'm sure there's differences between hon30 and hoe, but makes no sense to me!

[BR60103]

AHM was Associated Hobby Manufacturers.  They seemed to be importers of Rivarossi (and maybe others) in their own boxes.

 

HOn30 aka HOn 21/2 is HO scale trains on N gauge track.  May be the same as HOe.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Thanks guys.

 

I may have missed it from the quick look at the linked sites, but what code is the HOn30 track? Contemplating taking some brave-pills and swapping the 'n' sleepers for something more appropriately sized.

[MikeOxon]

From the catalogue description, it seems that AHM simply used standard N-gauge track.  Why not measure the rail depth?  The 'code' is just the height of the rail section in thou.

 

 

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

From the catalogue description, it seems that AHM simply used standard N-gauge track.  Why not measure the rail depth?  The 'code' is just the height of the rail section in thou.

 

trackcode.jpg

Good idea. Excuse my ignorance but I didn't know what the measurement to create the codes was.

 

Thanks

[Merfyn Jones]

Re. anything in this country.  There used to be a similar standard and narrow gauge crossing at Blaenau Ffestiniog Central where the Festiniog Railway crossed the GWR to access the goods yard.

A modern equivalent is where the Welsh Highland crosses the Cambrian Coast at Cae Pawb, Porthmadog, but at a nearer to 90 degree angle.

Merf.

[Hobby]

I may have missed it from the quick look at the linked sites, but what code is the HOn30 track? Contemplating taking some brave-pills and swapping the 'n' sleepers for something more appropriately sized.

 

Depends on who makes it! Peco HOe/009 track is also advertised as HOn30 track as well, as it's HO scale, 9mm gauge. Peco use code 80, but Tillig use code 83 for their HOe track, the difference is not worth worrying about, though the rail cross-section is different and you can't us Peco rail joiners on Tillig HOe track, though you can use Tillig joiners to join both. Personally I'd just use Peco as the new Mainline stuff is more robust than Tillig and just as good looking...

 

2'6" gauge is actually 762mm (approx) so ever so slightly different to the 760mm or 750mm gauge track seen in Europe, though in HO scale both use the same track.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Re. anything in this country.  There used to be a similar standard and narrow gauge crossing at Blaenau Ffestiniog Central where the Festiniog Railway crossed the GWR to access the goods yard.

A modern equivalent is where the Welsh Highland crosses the Cambrian Coast at Cae Pawb, Porthmadog, but at a nearer to 90 degree angle.

Merf.

 

Good stuff, cheers Merfyn. Freelance it is then!

 

Depends on who makes it! Peco HOe/009 track is also advertised as HOn30 track as well, as it's HO scale, 9mm gauge. Peco use code 80, but Tillig use code 83 for their HOe track, the difference is not worth worrying about, though the rail cross-section is different and you can't us Peco rail joiners on Tillig HOe track, though you can use Tillig joiners to join both. Personally I'd just use Peco as the new Mainline stuff is more robust than Tillig and just as good looking...

 

2'6" gauge is actually 762mm (approx) so ever so slightly different to the 760mm or 750mm gauge track seen in Europe, though in HO scale both use the same track.

 

Going from that i'll try and find some Tillig joiners and see if that works. Thanks.

[chewy81]

I believe that Mehanotehnika made such items so these may well have been made by them.

 

I think they were Yugoslavian - may still be going I believe.

 

Stu

I'm fairly sure I can confirm them as being Mehanotehnika as I have a brand new example still in its packet with the same style of fishplates you described. As you can see from the pic it describes it as an N/HO 30 deg. Crossing. Unfortunately I don't know any more details as I bought it about years 15 years ago as a young lad.

Hope this is of some help.

[Satan's Goldfish]

I'm fairly sure I can confirm them as being Mehanotehnika as I have a brand new example still in its packet with the same style of fishplates you described. As you can see from the pic it describes it as an N/HO 30 deg. Crossing. Unfortunately I don't know any more details as I bought it about years 15 years ago as a young lad.

Hope this is of some help.

 

Yep that's the bad boy! Good find. Does make you wonder what market there is out there for an N/HO crossing!

[25901]

Here's a use for one or two, one nice idea for a mixed gauge layout http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6039820356/

[Satan's Goldfish]

Here's a use for one or two, one nice idea for a mixed gauge layout http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6039820356/

 

Big manly high 5!!! MoD railway seems a good idea......you've got me thinking now...

[25901]

Big manly high 5!!! MoD railway seems a good idea......you've got me thinking now...

 

RNAD trecwn opened in 1938 and while it is now closed it is still mainly there, so quite a varied amount of traction could be used.  

I'am thinking one of "Mr edges" NBL shunters with one or two of the 99hp Baguleys from "Narrow Planet"

Now all I need Is some fancy cross overs 

[Satan's Goldfish]

RNAD trecwn opened in 1938 and while it is now closed it is still mainly there, so quite a varied amount of traction could be used.  

I'am thinking one of "Mr edges" NBL shunters with one or two of the 99hp Baguleys from "Narrow Planet"

Now all I need Is some fancy cross overs 

 

I've got an old Railway Modeller with a whole artical and drawings on 'The Locomotives and Rolling Stock of RAF Chillmark'. Some good narrow gauge stuff there too.