GWR Monster Bogie Scenery van

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have been pleasantly surprised by the gift of a well assembled but unpainted OO kit of this type*. My word, it is rather large, was the first impression when I placed it on the tracks. Presumably this type was built out to the limits of the GWR loading gauge, justifying its' name; which rather begs the question of just where it could operate. Was it restricted to the network of formerly broad gauge GWR construction, or could it travel elsewhere such as the Berne loading gauge GCR London extension? I have tried a little googling but unfortunately the term 'monster' turns up an awful lot of unwanted nonsense...

 

* It was found by a relative in a box of clothing of unknown origin donated to a charity shop. Should a reader have lost such a thing, PM me with the surname written on the underside and it will be returned.

[Miss Prism]

Their width and length would not have imposed any restrictions, but they were certainly tall (13'0" over pots). I think the GCR loading gauge could accomodate this height?

[Guest dilbert]

Are you sure the vehicle you are describing is a Monster ? The Monsters basically were of the same size as Siphons G & H, 50' over headstocks, 8'6" wide and ~12'11" high (from ground level). The versatility of the Siphons was such that they would be found all over the GW system - the Monsters would be the same....dilbert

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Thanks for that Miss Prism. The model stands with the peak of the roof 54mm above rail level which of course scales to 13'6", and there are no ventilators* or other fittings on the roof. However, there is a good 2mm air gap between the top of the bogie frames and the solebars, and the buffer centres are 16mm above the rail, so it can easily be adjusted to loose a scale 6" in overall height.

 

*My ignorance of this type may safely be assumed to be boundless, should it have ventilators, rainstrips, or other roof top fittings such as giraffe neck hatches?

 

Dilbert, near simultaneous postings. The 'GWR modelling' site picture of a monster matches the model I have. It's the off ex-GW system movement possibility I am interested in, as it has accidentally arrived on ER metals. If the height puts it out of gauge, then it will have to broken up, too hazardous to move.

[Miss Prism]

*My ignorance of this type may safely be assumed to be boundless, should it have ventilators, rainstrips, or other roof top fittings such as giraffe neck hatches?

The P16 (outside framed) and P18 (inside framed) Monsters had three very low gas pots along the midline of the roof, double rainstrips, but no roof vents. Later P21 Monsters were electrically lit. (The P21 not having any rainstrips it would seem.)

[cctransuk]

Being scenery vans - ie. for use in transporting the scenery of theatrical companies - it would surely be fairly essential that the vans had a universal route availability.

 

After all - a theatrical production confined to, say, the GWR might be somewhat restrictive when it came to selecting suitable performance venues!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Stationmaster]

At the dimensions quoted above they would have been acceptable for the LNER -in fact the only foreign lines they would have been barred from were certain parts of the former SE&CR.

 

Prior to 1944 there were considerable restrictions on GWR passenger stock over LNER lines but these were greatly relaxed in December 1944 when GWR 60ft vehicles up to 9'3" wide were 'generally accepted' to run over LNER lines with one or two exceptions in the Newcastle area. GWR vehicles 63ftx9'3" were not permitted to run on LNER lines.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Excellent, it can remain in service carrying theatre props or something similarly bulky between London and York. Looking at the underside a little more closely it has P21 written in ballpoint near one end, which I might divine is the diagram number mentioned by Miss Prism as electrically lit, thus accounting for the absence of any fixtures associated with lighting on the roof.

[Miss Prism]

Excellent, it can remain in service carrying theatre props or something similarly bulky between London and York.

Didn't the LNER have anything of its own?

[cctransuk]

Didn't the LNER have anything of its own?

 

Perhaps the previous theatrical venue was somewhere in West London - nearest station BR(WR).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Fat Controller]

Perhaps the previous theatrical venue was somewhere in West London - nearest station BR(WR).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

They could also be used to carry motor cars or circus equipment, though I don't know if any were modified to carry elephants like their Southern cousins. Some of the inside framed ones were built in the late 1940s/early 1950s by BR, and lasted into the days of blue livery, though they had long since passed into general use by then. I keep hoping an inside-framed one will appear, to go behind a Swindon 2-car Cross-Country DMMU.

[The Stationmaster]

Didn't the LNER have anything of its own?

 

Actually that's not entirely relevant in reality because if the GW happened to have one of the LNER's bogie vans then things were in balance. If vans etc were not common user or were not subject to the daily balancing process then it should have been returned to the GW Immediately it had been emptied (or loaded) unless it was in a balanced working (which is how it should otherwise have been returned).

 

If we are talking BR era then no reason at all why the ER couldn't half-inch it provided it wasn't branded with something over-riding 'common user'.

[Miss Prism]

Fair point, Mike - the Monsters were not 'non common user' as far as I know. It just struck me as odd that someone requiring a scenery truck from London to York would immediately think of using a (G)WR vehicle. There weren't that many Monsters anyway, and I guess their use was not an everyday occurence, probably being returned to home territory quite quickly.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

To clarify, I am modelling BR(ER) circa 1960, so it's a working that might justify the presence of such a vehicle, since one has 'happened' into my hands. I have filed down the bogie pivots to place the roof peak at the correct height above rail level, and the vehicle doesn't look quite so monstrous now. But now the flanges foul on the underframe representation on curves, so some clearance will have to be cut.

 

 

[LNERGE]

This is a Monster van lurking over on the Eastern Region...

 

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p8401425.html

[RJEB]

With regards to loading gauge, or more properly structure gauge, the diagram P18 monster was used as motor car van in General Eisenhower's SHAEF Headquarters train codenamed "Alive", the original formation having nos. 483 and 485, later augmented during 1945 while in France with nos. 585, 588, 590, 592, 593, 594; the latter preserved to GWR livery on the South Devon Railway, see http://www.southdevonrailway.co.uk/rolling-stock/gwr-coaches/gwr-monster-594. 

 

Before shipment to France "Alive" would have run on British railways and on the continent in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany where the Berne Gauge even with local amendments would pose no restrictions on movements.

[hmrspaul]

My photos, mentioned earlier, are now at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrmonster

 

I remember seeing one of these in the mid 1960s but I think it was on the WR.

 

Paul

[Trog]

such as the Berne loading gauge GCR London extension?

 

I don't think the GCR London extension was actually built to the Berne Gauge.