4 SUB Unit 4377, Bulleid 2 HAP upgrade - plus all matters third rail.

[Colin parks]

Got all the brass-ware on the roofs done last night.

 

 

 

 

I was nearly caught out by the torpedo ventilators on the motor coach van ends. The 4 SUB's, such as the one being modelled, that didn't have self-ventilated motors (with the roof top square vents) have an extra torpedo vent over the luggage van. I had to guesstimate the position, but the extra one looks right in relation to the one near the periscope and the one over the driver's compartment.

 

 

The next things that have to go on are the inner end jumper cable junction boxes. A lot of head scratching has gone on this morning as working out the orientation of these boxes was not easy. The motor coaches are not handed but the trailer coaches are in terms of conduit runs. All became clear when I noticed that on one of dasatcopthorne's excellent photos it showed the power line and train control cables crossed over each other between the motor coach and adjacent trailer. This only happened at one end and all this is only important if fitting the jumper cables, which I am. More of that another time.

 

Colin

[HAB]

Colin,

 

Excellent as always!  

 

 

The next things that have to go on are the inner end jumper cable junction boxes. A lot of head scratching has gone on this morning as working out the orientation of these boxes was not easy. 

 

The MRC plans book has a good sketch of the roof layout of all the SUB sub-classes - let me know if a sight of of it would help.

 

Best wishes,

[ChrisH]

Ref the roof conduits, as you say the motor coaches were identical, the conduits crossed over on the trailer with two buffers.  The second trailer conduits were a straight through run.

 

It was possible to run as a 3 car providing the crossover trailer was the one remaining in the set.

 

Chris

[Colin parks]

Just to clarify what I have tried to explain, I am re-posting one of dasatcopthorne's photo's from his post #108, so I hope he won't mind it being seen again.

 

You can see that each set of three boxes comprises of two thinner and one thicker box and at this end of the unit the jumper cables cross over each other. This crossing of cables only happens at one end of the unit (the end where the power line conduit is on opposite sides. On unit 4377, this occurs between the TC and the MBS. As with 4 CORs 4 SUB trailers could only be connected one way around and their roof conduits matched accordingly.

 

 

Basically the power line with the thicker jumper cable runs along the trailer coach roofs but on the motor coaches, the conduit runs down the inner end and along the underside of the floor. This accounts for there being three conduits on trailer roofs but only two on the motor coaches.

 

Colin

[HAB]

Hello Colin,

 

Yes - the drawing in the MRC plans books shows it exactly as you describe - the crossing is at the end of the TC nearest the motor.  It refers specifically to the 4363 - 4377 batch, though the same principle applies to the 4101 batch, albeit the roof layout differs.

 

However, to contradict what Chris says above, it does not show the conduits crossing, and it is the TT and not the TC which has the buffer both ends.

 

 

Now you have tipped us off we will all be looking out for those crossed jumpers when your SUB is "on Tour"!!

 

Best wishes,

[Colin parks]

Ref the roof conduits, as you say the motor coaches were identical, the conduits crossed over on the trailer with two buffers.  The second trailer conduits were a straight through run.

 

It was possible to run as a 3 car providing the crossover trailer was the one remaining in the set.

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

As Howard has mentioned, the conduits crossed over at the end of the pseudo-composite trailer, which had one buffer. Sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I suppose that running a 4 SUB as 3 SUB was possible using a trailer with two centre buffers - that is how the original 1925 stock was arranged (after the disastrous initial start with MCB buck-eye couplers). As far as I am aware, no motor coaches had centre buffers, just a buffing plate.

 

All the best,

 

Coin

[Colin parks]

Hello Colin,

 

Yes - the drawing in the MRC plans books shows it exactly as you describe - the crossing is at the end of the TC nearest the motor.  It refers specifically to the 4363 - 4377 batch, though the same principle applies to the 4101 batch, albeit the roof layout differs.

 

However, to contradict what Chris says above, it does not show the conduits crossing, and it is the TT and not the TC which has the buffer both ends.

 

 

Now you have tipped us off we will all be looking out for those crossed jumpers when your SUB is "on Tour"!!

 

Best wishes,

Hi Howard,

 

I do have some low-res scans of those MRC drawings, but it was the pictures which led to the conclusion. It is not whether the crossed jumper cables that are evident or not though (I haven't even proved it will work yet!), the junction boxes are handed too. That is possible to see in another of dasatcopthorne's photos which shows a condemned trailer coach viewed its step-end. The boxes are clearly arranged with the power line box on the left*. In fact, I can't find a single picture where the roof conduit on a 4 SUB's trailers varies in this respect.

 

The TC also has had to be assembled with care to ensure not only that the jumper cable boxes are the right way around and the roof conduit is to the correct side of the roof, but that the step-end is to the centre of the unit too. It's all 'sub'tle stuff you know!

 

(* I suspect that your Augmentation trailer coach would follow this rule too.)

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited December 2, 2013 by Colin parks

[Colin parks]

Jumper cable fun!

 

It doesn't take too long to make the pesky little things, using 16mm lengths of round black elastic filament with a 1mm piece of steel rod at each end. Shown here are the unit's three power cables. I was pleased to find that the cables didn't take too much effort to guide to the junction boxes. The clearance between ends is challenging though!

 

 

 

Ironically, the pair of inner ends pictured are the ones where the cables should cross, but I haven't made the longer, thinner cable which would make this possible. Brake pipes would also be possible to fit using this system. On the 4 SUB there are no gangways to get in the way, unlike the 4 COR, where the experiment to fit brake pipes was abandoned.

 

Colin

 

(Off to local haberdashery store tomorrow in search of thin black elastic!)

Edited December 3, 2013 by Colin parks

[the penguin of doom]

Haberdashery.......

 

Now there's a word you don't hear so much these days.

 

Smashing work Colin, really effective.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[jamie92208]

(Off to local haberdashery store tomorrow in search of thin black elastic!)

It is a lovely word.  I visited one in Leeds to try and find some mesh with a fine hexagonal weave to represent chicken wire on the roof of my Midland EMU's (put there to act as a partial Faraday shield in 1907.) I went to the basement to find myself surrounded by several harassed mothers of brides to be together with their equally stressed daughters. The assistant who served me was very amused when I started talking about model railways and produced a a partially built roof.  She immediately turned to a whole range of swatches which were colour coordinated from white to Black.  Apparently they were for bridal or funeral veils with every colour of blue/purple etc in between.   I got enough for all the 6 coaches that I need for 50p.  The venom that was being directed at me by the brides mother's in the shop was almost physical but I found the whole incident amusing and the assistant was charming and helpful.  The material now looks fine on the coach roofs when pasted down with PVA and painted.

 

Jamie

Edited December 4, 2013 by jamie92208

[Colin parks]

Well haberdashers do have some things of use to we modellers - as Jamie has amusingly explained.

 

My return to the shop yielded various sizes of black elastic: 4mm, 6mm & 12mm. I bought a metre of each and unlike Jamie, pretended it was for some complicated upholstery seaming. (Well, that's what they probably thought I was doing with it!)

 

The 4 & 6mm elastic had some finer filaments, which made up quite well, as can be seen here:

 

 

 

The jumper cables could do with their ends squaring up so that they hang better, but at least there are now two thin and one thick cable.

 

 

Then I tried the crossed over cable trick (several junction boxes need tidying up!):

 

 

 

 

It can be seen that there is not much to see except the cables look a bit jumbled up. Crossing them over like this is probably not worthwhile, as the 'thin' cables are still too thick to do this convincingly.

 

Colin

[royaloak]

Should the cables be different lengths?

 

The picture in post 454 seems to show the middle thin cable is shortest, followed by the thick crossover cable and the thin crossover cable being the longest.

[Colin parks]

Should the cables be different lengths?

 

The picture in post 454 seems to show the middle thin cable is shortest, followed by the thick crossover cable and the thin crossover cable being the longest.

Hi Royaloak,

 

You are quite right and well spotted.

 

I have just looked at a picture of dasatcopthorne's from page 3 of this topic which shows that the thicker power line and centre 'thin' cable were of the same length, with only the outer 'thin' cable being longer. Three cables will be shortened accordingly. I should never model based on assumptions!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Bustered]

Colin,

 

have you ever considered taking all the photos from the various EMU projects you have done, add in some text along the lines of 'how I built this bit', put in some plans, and title the resulting book "SR EMUs for scratchbuilders"?  I reckon they'd fly off the shelves - I'd gladly order my copy now!  Outstanding work.

 

Best wishes

 

Nige.

[Colin parks]

Colin,

 

have you ever considered taking all the photos from the various EMU projects you have done, add in some text along the lines of 'how I built this bit', put in some plans, and title the resulting book "SR EMUs for scratchbuilders"?  I reckon they'd fly off the shelves - I'd gladly order my copy now!  Outstanding work.

 

Best wishes

 

Nige.

Hi Nige,

 

Thanks for your suggestion. Others, including Godfrey Glyn, have suggested something along similar lines but I really don't know that a book on my construction methods would prove that popular! Most of what I am doing is inspired by the late, great David Jenkinson, whose methods I have adapted for 4mm scale steel bodied stock. DJ seemed to hit on a perfect method for building LMS coaches in 7mm straight away. I am still working on finding the optimum method for making SR EMUs.

 

There was an article on the building of the two Bulleid 2 HAPs in the Railway Modeller last year. (Along with some rather unfortunate prototype notes which I didn't write!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Lighting conduit work.

 

 

This is the inner end of the TC, which faces a motor coach. There has had to be some guess work on exact positions and bends in the conduit, which is all made from Plastruct 0.4mm dia. rod. There appear to be at least two possible positions of the upper square box and the conduit running into it, so I've gone for the most commonly photographed position.

 

 

Luckily there are only two inner ends like this (with the other being on the TSO).

 

 

In this view of the roof from above (which lacks the power line and train control conduits), the lighting conduit can be seen running through the turned brass Southern Pride junction boxes and down over the end. Also visible is the small length of conduit which runs from the power line box and down to join the conduit running into the lower, larger square box on the inner end*. I have had to take guess re. this arrangement as none of the plans or photos show exactly what is going on here.

 

 

Colin

 

* As the lighting on these units on 4 SUBs ran at line voltage (with the light bulbs wired in series), I presume this small link of conduit provides the power supply for this trailer

Edited December 6, 2013 by Colin parks

[the penguin of doom]

Just brilliant.

[Colin parks]

Unless something has been forgotten, all the 4 SUB's external detail that can be attached prior to painting has been completed.

 

 

 

All the conduit is now in place, with all the runs done as best as can be judged from photos. Shown here is the TSO:

 

 

 

A view of the completed TSO from above. (An Augementaion trailer coach looks just like this Howard!). The conduit supports were fashioned from tiny rectangles of 20 thou. sheet. After looking at photos it seemed clear that the power line and train control conduit was raised somewhat from the roof. Perhaps a scale 1 1/2" is a little too much, but 10 thou. was tried and didn't look right.

 

 

 

The last items to go on were the handrails on the inner ends. After plucking up courage to get on and do this last bit of fabrication, the handrails proved quite easy to form. The top end locates in a hole desperately close to the roof end, but I got away with drilling the holes -just. The bottom end of each handrail is held by a bracket, which is in effect, a square of 20 thou. sheet. Superglue has been added to the joints to reinforce everything. It remains to be seen if making the fixing like a real one rather than just bending the wire at right angles into the end will be robust enough.

 

 

Attention will now turn to matters internal: partitions, cab detail, seats and some functional conduit for the wiring to run from the rear bogie of the motorised MBS.

 

Colin

Edited December 9, 2013 by Colin parks

[John Oxlade]

I trust you will upholster your seats? And make sure that they have that deep, formerly-luxurious but now just saggy-in-the-mid-section stuffing. And make sure to get the pattern on the upholstery right too! :-)

Joking aside, the end-on images are about 3 times actual size and even at this magnification they look great. Outstanding workmanship.

Edited December 9, 2013 by John Oxlade

[HAB]

(An Augmentation trailer coach looks just like this Howard!).

 

I sense some gentle encouragement here....

 

I hope mine WILL look that good when I've done it...  Excellent as ever Colin!

 

Best wishes,

[Colin parks]

I trust you will upholster your seats? And make sure that they have that deep, formerly-luxurious but now just saggy-in-the-mid-section stuffing. And make sure to get the pattern on the upholstery right too! :-)

Joking aside, the end-on images are about 3 times actual size and even at this magnification they look great. Outstanding workmanship.

Many thanks John.

 

The seating will be pretty basic in the compartments as based on previous experience, not much will be seen through the windows. The TSO will have seating with their unique advertising panels above, but I am not sure that the luggage racks will be modelled.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

I sense some gentle encouragement here....

 

I hope mine WILL look that good when I've done it...  Excellent as ever Colin!

 

Best wishes,

Hi Howard,

 

Based on all of the work I have seen of yours, the Augmentation trailer will most certainly be better than mine!

 

I have had your commode handle etches and correct-width inner end steps through the post today. Very fine design work I must say. Those inner end brass steps seen on the TSO in the last picture will just have to go!

 

(To be fair to Precision Paints, they didn't sell me their product as being suitable for a 4 SUB, they were sold as BR Mk. 1 stock fittings.)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited December 9, 2013 by Colin parks

[HAB]

Based on all of the work I have seen of yours, the Augmentation trailer will most certainly be better than mine!

 

 

You are too kind!  Maybe after I've built a few I might be able to get somewhere near your standard - but I've got to finish one first!

 

[Thinks to self:- pressure building now...]

 

Best wishes,

 

Howard.

[John Oxlade]

What do you mean "no luggage racks"? Actually, I doubt you'd be able to scale the cord used, and certainly not to weave and knot them appropriately. Now that would be a good penance for someone wouldn't it?

[Colin parks]

What do you mean "no luggage racks"? Actually, I doubt you'd be able to scale the cord used, and certainly not to weave and knot them appropriately. Now that would be a good penance for someone wouldn't it?

Well John, I did fit some very nicely etched luggage racks in my Bulleid 2 HAP motor coach open saloons. They were designed by an RMweb member and looked just right.

 

The chances of replicating the delicate tubular frames and netting of the 4 SUB type of racks are slim and given the small windows, not much will be seen. I am hoping that the TSO's unique advertising panels above the seats will give the impression of the racks being there.

 

All the best,

 

Colin