4 SUB Unit 4377, Bulleid 2 HAP upgrade - plus all matters third rail.

[HAB]

 

I currently live in Copthorne, a stone's throw from Three Bridges.

 

... and here was me thinking that you worked for a chain of large and mostly expensive Hotels!

 

Just BTW - I sent you a PM regarding drawings for standard underframes - you might have missed it as I have not yet had a reply - but feel free to drop a note here - I am sure Colin will not mind as it was he who suggested I ask you.

 

Best wishes,

[Colin parks]

Colin et al.

 

Back to the subject in hand.

 

As usual, I'm always lurking here watching your build progress.

 

Your skill with Plasticard never ceases to amaze me. Brilliant!

 

All those trips I made to photograph SR EMU details so that one day I'd get the details right has paid off.

 

Although I've used most myself, I am really pleased that others can make use of them to enhance their models.

 

 

When I started, there was no internet (not that long ago, only 1970) and I did it just for me, never thinking that anyone else might want to see or use them. After all, SR EMU modelling was a 'black art' in those days.

 

The times I stood in sidings (both legally and illegally), sometimes in p***ing rain, taking measurements and photos has now paid off.

 

Fantastic.

 

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

Well you certainly have produced a wealth of knowledge and photos over the years that I have been making EMUs. Unless there are others 'lurking' who I am unaware of, It could be that some of your information is the only source that exists. There aren't many who bothered or were able to take the kind of detail shots that you did. So all the rain-soaked forays into the sidings were worth it in the end!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

... and here was me thinking that you worked for a chain of large and mostly expensive Hotels!

 

Just BTW - I sent you a PM regarding drawings for standard underframes - you might have missed it as I have not yet had a reply - but feel free to drop a note here - I am sure Colin will not mind as it was he who suggested I ask you.

 

Best wishes,

 

Hi Howard.

 

I replied on 7th December.

 

I'm afraid it's not good news.

 

I have nothing to help you in that department.

 

Sorry mate.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

Hi Howard.

 

I replied on 7th December.

 

I'm afraid it's not good news.

 

I have nothing to help you in that department.

 

Sorry mate.

 

Dave

 

Sort of butting in here Dave and Howard.

 

Dave: Although you might not have drawings, you do have those pictures of a SUB(?) conversion to air brakes (?) taken from underneath, with the bogies off the chassis. Perhaps they will be of some use to Howard as it shows a great deal of the framework which is never usually seen. (Another of your heroic photo shoots!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Ceptic]

Born in Brighton, escaped / evacuated, westwards, during WW2's dark days.

Spent most of that period, when I got the chance, looking at SR steam.

 

The most memorable time was when, during school holidays, I stayed with relatives, either in Brighton or W.Worthing.

 

As a kid of the time, being used to steam locos, (Third rail) electric traction and Emus were a vision of the future.

 

Even now, (The) other railway(s) is / are attempting to catch up.

 

All the best.

 

Frank.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ceptic

[Colin parks]

Born in Brighton, escaped / evacuated, westwards, during WW2's dark days.

Spent most of that period, when I got the chance, looking at SR steam.

 

The most memorable time was when, during school holidays, I stayed with relatives, either in Brighton or W.Worthing.

 

As a kid of the time, being used to steam locos, (Third rail) electric traction and Emus were a vision of the future.

 

Even now, (The) other railway(s) is /are attempting to catch up.

 

All the best.

 

Frank.

Hi Frank,

 

So you are an old Brightonian!

 

I was born in Brighton General but our family lived in Peacehaven. Funny how some people think I am welsh, but I moved here when I was nineteen.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Ceptic]

... and here was me thinking that you worked for a chain of large and mostly expensive Hotels!

 

Just BTW - I sent you a PM regarding drawings for standard underframes - you might have missed it as I have not yet had a reply - but feel free to drop a note here - I am sure Colin will not mind as it was he who suggested I ask you.

 

Best wishes,

 

Hi Howard.

 

i've got some pics of a BR Mk,1 2-EPB's U/f.

If these would be of assistance ? you can reach me via PM.

 

P.S. These are slide scans and their colour has faded, but, most details can be seen.

 

All the best,

 

Frank.

[HAB]

 

i've got some pics of a BR Mk,1 2-EPB's U/f.

If these would be of assistance ? you can reach me via PM.

 

 

 

Hello Frank,

 

Many thanks for the kind offer. I am really after SR Standard 62' underframes - ideally dimensioned drawings if you have any thing in that bailiwick?

 

Best wishes,

[Ceptic]

Hello Frank,

 

Many thanks for the kind offer. I am really after SR Standard 62' underframes - ideally dimensioned drawings if you have any thing in that bailiwick?

 

Best wishes,

 Hmmm,....'fraid not,  Howard.

 

All I have, to hand, are U/f drawings of the loco hauled SR, BR(S) stock. Even then, these are limited to some of Maunsell and Bulleid coaches.

 

Thinking about it, I have some lists of the OPC / BR Drawings Joint Venture Scheme. These lists / catalogue numbers are the basis of the NRM's Drawing Archives listings.

I'll have a look through what I've got, and see if there's anything of interest.

 

All the best,

 

Frank.

[HAB]

 

 

Thinking about it, I have some lists of the OPC / BR Drawings Joint Venture Scheme. These lists / catalogue numbers are the basis of the NRM's Drawing Archives listings.

I'll have a look through what I've got, and see if there's anything of interest.

 

Frank,

 

Many thanks for this - no need to worry about the OPC list as these are available on line:-

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ResearchAndArchive/archiveandlibrarycollections/RailwayCoWorks

 

(there are some nice pics there as well!)

 

Unfortunately, the NRM lists are PDF and searching them is a bit of a pain but they are probably the best source - so I will get searching!

 

Best wishes,

[Ceptic]

Hi Frank,

 

So you are an old Brightonian!

 

I was born in Brighton General but our family lived in Peacehaven. Funny how some people think I am welsh, but I moved here when I was nineteen.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin.

 

Old  Brightonian ?,...me ?.....Yep...Still love the place,...after all these years.

 

Brighton General, eh. Up the top of Elm Grove.   I know it.

After being bombed out of Portsmouth, Dad's Mum, previously living in Bedford Place, Kemp Town, moved halfway up Elm Grove, along with her offspring. 

 

As far as I've been told, I was born in the Royal Sussex, Eastern Rd, Kemp Town.

 

Funny old world, innit ?... So many connections.

 

Wishing you, and  yours, Colin, All The Very Best for Christmas.

 

I'll catch up with you, later.

 

Frank.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin.

 

Old  Brightonian ?,...me ?.....Yep...Still love the place,...after all these years.

 

Brighton General, eh. Up the top of Elm Grove.   I know it.

After being bombed out of Portsmouth, Dad's Mum, previously living in Bedford Place, Kemp Town, moved halfway up Elm Grove, along with her offspring. 

 

As far as I've been told, I was born in the Royal Sussex, Eastern Rd, Kemp Town.

 

Funny old world, innit ?... So many connections.

 

Wishing you, and  yours, Colin, All The Very Best for Christmas.

 

I'll catch up with you, later.

 

Frank.

Hi Frank,

 

 

 

All the best to you for Christmas too!

 

I am hoping to have little a 'green something' at least to the transfer and varnish stage by the weekend, before the festivities get going.

 

Nadolig Llawen! (No, it's not Brighton slang!)

 

 

Colin

[pwr]

Colin

 

Have you seen that Hornby are to do a 2Hal and that judging from the press announcement the model is tooled and ready to go. An exccellent companion for your 2Bil methinks

 

Paul R

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

Have you seen that Hornby are to do a 2Hal and that judging from the press announcement the model is tooled and ready to go. An exccellent companion for your 2Bil methinks

 

Paul R

Hi Paul,

 

Yes I did know. See post#172 of this topic!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[HAB]

Colin

 

Have you seen that Hornby are to do a 2Hal and that judging from the press announcement the model is tooled and ready to go. An exccellent companion for your 2Bil methinks

 

Paul R

 

Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems from Hornby's publicity pic that it, too, lacks a compressor!

 

 

Cheers,

[Adam]

The Hornby HAL has just excused me from even contemplating scratchbuilding an EMU; they are just the thing for the bit of the London end of the BR(S) we have in mind. I might even beak the habit of a lifetime and pre-order one. At least I know how to make the compressor.

 

Adam

[autocoach]

Colin

 

Was that prophetic or from actual knowledge.  You knew it would not be a 4 SUB

Hi Howard,

I have already confessed in a pm that I was wrong about one of the 2 NOL photos! From all the evidence (1 photo in the book plus some web ones, I'd say you are right about the layout being the same as the 2 BILs from 2011-2116.

Now strangely, as you asked about the 4 SUB layout, I looked on my drawing and found there is no compressor drawn in. I checked the 2 HAL drawing I have and that doesn't show one either. Then I checked my Horribly 2 BIL and there isn't one there - never has been! (The drawings are by the same person who supplied Hornby with the 2 BIL drawing so you can 'draw' your own conclusion as to what went wrong.) I guess I shall be making a third compressor and cradle assembly to rectify the omission.

Hornby are likely to produce a 2 HAL in the near future and perhaps we should all start lobbying Nick Scott at Hornby now for some basic improvements on the 2 BIL chassis that they will be using for it. (That and getting the 2 HAL's window shape, body and roof correct detail too!) Then again, it might already be too late....

All the best,

Colin

[BernardTPM]

I remember from the 1971 Combined Volume several of these were in use as Parcels/Newspaper vans. Some cars were also mixed in with BILs. The very rounded window corners were a bit like the Tri-ang TT suburbans!

[Colin parks]

The Hornby HAL has just excused me from even contemplating scratchbuilding an EMU; they are just the thing for the bit of the London end of the BR(S) we have in mind. I might even beak the habit of a lifetime and pre-order one. At least I know how to make the compressor.

 

Adam

Well Adam, if buying a Hornby 2 HAL instead of building one (who will now anyway?) saves you enough time to make some more of your excellent wagons instead, so much the better!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Colin

 

Was that prophetic or from actual knowledge.  You knew it would not be a 4 SUB

Hi autocoach,

 

Re. your question, it was actual knowledge. What I don't know is how much effect what I said at DEMU last year had on the man from Hornby. He had a good look at the Kirk 2 BIL on my layout along with my scratch-built 2 HAL. I did point out that if Hornby produced the 2 BIL, then they had a ready-made chassis for the 2 HAL (albeit with minor differences which the wider customer base doesn't seem to care about). Coincidence or not, I happen to know that the people from Hornby did ask the supplier of the 2 HAL plans ifbthe chassis were the same as those of the 2 BILs.

 

Re. 4 SUBs: By accident rather than design (-clever!) Hornby do have, in effect, the two chassis from the 2 BIL which would suit the 4 SUB motor coaches - as near as doesn't matter to most people. Having said that, I doubt if anybody will ever produce the type of 4 SUB unit that I have built and even if they do, I wouldn't care because I enjoy building things!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited December 18, 2013 by Colin parks

[Colin parks]

I remember from the 1971 Combined Volume several of these were in use as Parcels/Newspaper vans. Some cars were also mixed in with BILs. The very rounded window corners were a bit like the Tri-ang TT suburbans!

Hi Bernard,

 

I am not too clued up on the parcels units, but I believe they were only used for the Christmas period of that year, possibly being retained for use in 1972. The units were classified '2 PAN' (which stood for: 2- car Parcels and Newspapers).

 

There could be an interesting mix of motor and trailer coaches for the 2 BIL and 2 HAL units, but beware, the more long-lived units received new trailer composites to the same design as the all-steel Tin HAL trailers.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Perhaps not surprisingly, it seems from Hornby's publicity pic that it, too, lacks a compressor!

 

 

Cheers,

Hi Howard,

 

Don't get me started on the 2 HALs' minor shortcomings, I have tried to remain positive in my comments. I don't think Hornby took any of my suggestions on board about improvements which could be made to the chassis or roof.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Re6/6]

Despite any deficiencies that there may be in the forthcoming 2HAL, I for one am delighted that they will be appearing sometime in the future.

 

I'm just not trying not to think about those 2HAL kits and bits that I've accumulated over the years! I've got a set of etches from 'Branchlines' for the Kirk 2BIL kit, a 'Phoenix' (SRG) ali kit (just purchased at this year's S4um!) and some MTK brass wrappers (which are spot-on according to the King drawings). Guess that I'll probably build them (that's fun bit for me!) as nobody would want them now on Ebay.

 

I wish that I had your patience Colin, but I'm now getting too old to consider scratchbuilding. Kits, bits and commissioned etches are as basic as I can go nowadays!

 

I hope that I'm not hijacking your thread Colin.

 

We do need a lot of 1st generation EMUs for Balcombe. We've got the 5BELs, 2BILs and soon the 2HALs. The 6CIT has stalled at the moment but is underway and the 6PUL(s) and 4LAVs are being sorted out. Just the 6PAN(s) to be thought about now if the others come to fruition.

 

Busy times ahead. Other domestic work is taking precedent ATM.

 

Apologies if I've posted these before.

 

Fortunately the 6CIT coach length is the same as the Hornby Maunsels. Ideal for cut'n'shut'n'bodge!

 

Edited December 18, 2013 by Re6/6

[Colin parks]

Despite any deficiencies that there may be in the forthcoming 2HAL, I for one am delighted that they will be appearing sometime in the future.

 

I'm just not trying not to think about those 2HAL kits and bits that I've accumulated over the years! I've got a set of etches from 'Branchlines' for the Kirk 2BIL kit, a 'Phoenix' (SRG) ali kit (just purchased at this year's S4um!) and some MTK brass wrappers (which are spot-on according to the King drawings). Guess that I'll probably build them (that's fun bit for me!) as nobody would want them now on Ebay.

 

I wish that I had your patience Colin, but I'm now getting too old to consider scratchbuilding. Kits, bits and commissioned etches are as basic as I can go nowadays!

 

I hope that I'm not hijacking your thread Colin.

 

We do need a lot of 1st generation EMUs for Balcombe. We've got the 5BELs, 2BILs and soon the 2HALs. The 6CIT has stalled at the moment but is underway and the 6PUL(s) and 4LAVs are being sorted out. Just the 6PAN(s) to be thought about now if the others come to fruition.

 

Busy times ahead. Other domestic work is taking precedent ATM.

 

Apologies if I've posted these before.

 

Fortunately the 6CIT coach length is the same as the Hornby Maunsels. Ideal for cut'n'shut'n'bodge!

007.JPG

 

002.JPG

Hi John,

 

Apologies if it sounded like I was belittling anyone who buys RTR. It is just a shame that with all the secrecy surrounding new projects that errors are creeping into models where the tooling could just as easily be right.

 

The 6 PUL and 6 CIT projects look promising and Balcombe can't do without some of those! As you say time is short and with domestic duties, sometimes in short supply. I have come to the end of scratch-building EMUs for the foreseeable future, as I shall be converting much of the stock to P4. That means building a P4 layout to run the stock on of course......

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[10800]

I have come to the end of scratch-building EMUs for the foreseeable future, as I shall be converting much of the stock to P4. That means building a P4 layout to run the stock on of course......All the best,Colin

Interesting Colin! Perhaps we could swap running rights some time in the future?

Edited December 18, 2013 by 10800