Popular Post Colin parks Posted December 18, 2013 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) The 4 SUB has had a final run today just to ensure that everything works before taking it all to bits for painting. Unlike previous builds, the seating has not been made yet, but that will give me something to do while waiting for the paint to dry. The unit does look quite distinctive with all its many windows! Colin Edited December 19, 2013 by Colin parks 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting Colin! Perhaps we could swap running rights some time in the future? Well Rod, That assumes the models I convert will not fall off the track - they were not made with P4 in mind. HAB (Howard) and Simon (Oldlugger) assure me that compensation is not necessary on coach bogies converted to P4, but I'd rather it was there all the same. Swapping running rights is an interesting idea: The stock I have built so far would have run through Balcombe at some point too. (The 4 SUB would have to be a holiday special or parcels working though!) All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2013 The prospect of visiting stock on Balcombe Colin is excellent! The 4SUB could run with a BIL or HAL. I love the prospect of 'unusual' workings. .....yes, I know Rod...restraint...! ....now then...where are those pictures of the Crosti 92028 (another build that I now won't need to do!) on its way to Brighton..... .John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hi Bernard, I am not too clued up on the parcels units, but I believe they were only used for the Christmas period of that year, possibly being retained for use in 1972. The units were classified '2 PAN' (which stood for: 2- car Parcels and Newspapers). There could be an interesting mix of motor and trailer coaches for the 2 BIL and 2 HAL units, but beware, the more long-lived units received new trailer composites to the same design as the all-steel Tin HAL trailers. All the best, Colin Colin, I have an idea that there were some hybrid BIL/HAL units that used both old and new replacement HAL coaches as war damage replacements. I think that the info needed is in the SRG Phoenix list (if I can get to grips with it!) It's certainly an area of interest to me as I used to go to school sometimes on a 'hybrid'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2013 The 4 SUB has had a final run today just to ensure that everything works before taking it all to bits for painting. Unlike previous builds, the seating has not been made yet, but that will give me something to do while waiting for the paint to dry. IMG_7270.JPG The unit does look quite distinctive with all its many windows! Colin Very nice Colin One question before you go over to the dark side, where do you buy your hairshirts? I need all the help I can get to improve my modelling. Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hi Howard. I replied on 7th December. I'm afraid it's not good news. Hello Dave, Sorry about that : your message never got through - it is still not there - the system has let us down! Not to worry - I will put myself through the pain that is dealing with the NRM and see what they can do. Many thanks anyway and best wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well Rod, That assumes the models I convert will not fall off the track - they were not made with P4 in mind. HAB (Howard) and Simon (Oldlugger) assure me that compensation is not necessary on coach bogies converted to P4, but I'd rather it was there all the same. Swapping running rights is an interesting idea: The stock I have built so far would have run through Balcombe at some point too. (The 4 SUB would have to be a holiday special or parcels working though!) All the best, Colin Hi Colin, I can certainly assure you that my Hornby bogies are identical to yours and mine (uncompensated) do not fall off! When it comes to "home-built" bogies, if they are square and level then they are no different to the Hornby ones. If they are not square then compensation will not help! But now we have the way forward - flip the old wheels out, drop the new ones in and give it a run on your new-found P4 mate's layouts. (mine was in the queue before the Balcome lot!). Proof will be in the pudding! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Very nice Colin One question before you go over to the dark side, where do you buy your hairshirts? I need all the help I can get to improve my modelling. Clive Hi Clive, I shall keep an open mind on whether it is the 'dark side' or not! It has got to be worth a try though, look at the point to the left of the picture in post #526 - not very convincing is it?! I'm sure I can do better than that now. All the best, Colin Edited December 19, 2013 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hi Colin, I can certainly assure you that my Hornby bogies are identical to yours and mine (uncompensated) do not fall off! When it comes to "home-built" bogies, if they are square and level then they are no different to the Hornby ones. If they are not square then compensation will not help! But now we have the way forward - flip the old wheels out, drop the new ones in and give it a run on your new-found P4 mate's layouts. (mine was in the queue before the Balcome lot!). Proof will be in the pudding! Cheers, Hi Howard, Well the 4 SUB's Hornby bogies are superficially the same as yours, but I have added brass bearings to them. Goodness knows how accurate that makes them now! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2013 Colin, the SUB looks really good in that shot, you have even captured it's rather grumpy expression. You DID know trains can have expressions, didn't you? HALs look even more severe to me! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Colin, the SUB looks really good in that shot, you have even captured it's rather grumpy expression. You DID know trains can have expressions, didn't you? HALs look even more severe to me! Thanks Neil, I can see a 'face' in those old units: Some describe the 4 SUB cab front design as looking friendly, others 'severe', but to me it looks like a train rather fed up with carrying passengers! All the best, Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2013 Indeed, it looks like it has just had enough of commuters slamming its doors! On a serious note, the oblique photo shows your craftsmanship in the way the windows line up, it can be a cruel angle that reveals any flaws! Excellent stuff, I can't wait to see it painted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) I quite like the way the COR looks down there, just just like the real thing. Edited December 19, 2013 by Tigermoth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hoping my failing memory isn't too far off... There were some cyclist specials back in the 80s (?) between London and Brighton and as far as I recall they used SUBs to bring the cyclists back. I remember thinking there must have been bikes everywhere inside! Does anyone recall the details? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It was after the London to Brighton cycle race where the riders went on scheduled services and the bikes were loaded onto specials which were formed of SUBS (and EPBs?) which had the seats removed, each compartment took about 20 or so bikes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 The prospect of visiting stock on Balcombe Colin is excellent! The 4SUB could run with a BIL or HAL. I love the prospect of 'unusual' workings. .....yes, I know Rod...restraint...! ....now then...where are those pictures of the Crosti 92028 (another build that I now won't need to do!) on its way to Brighton..... .John. Hi John, I seem to recall reading (somewhere on this topic?!) that a 4 SUB was scheduled for a parcels working to Brighton from Waterloo via Portsmouth Harbour. I can't remember if the unit went back the way it came or up the Brighton line back to London. I'm not sure about the SUBs working with BILs and HALs, didn't they have a different control system?: the SUBs had a control potentiometer to regulate the line voltage current for the lights etc., while the BILs etc. had a 70v generator set. (Could be wrong on this, as electrical matters are not my strong point.) All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Indeed, it looks like it has just had enough of commuters slamming its doors! On a serious note, the oblique photo shows your craftsmanship in the way the windows line up, it can be a cruel angle that reveals any flaws! Excellent stuff, I can't wait to see it painted. Thanks Neil, The window alignment is much down to Howard's scribing jig. But it is not just the windows that have to line up. There are the door hinges, door bumps, roof water strips, ventilators and conduits which had to be checked at each stage of construction too. There is still a bit of side play between the body shells and floors and while not intended, will help line up the bodies. The biggest job of all is to get the four vehicles running in a straight line as they are so smooth - sided it would really look bad if they didn't. All the best, Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Colin, the SUB looks really good in that shot, you have even captured it's rather grumpy expression. You DID know trains can have expressions, didn't you? HALs look even more severe to me! Thanks Neil, I can see a 'face' in those old units: Some describe the 4 SUB cab front design as looking friendly, others 'severe', but to me it looks like a train rather fed up with carrying passengers! All the best, Colin Depends who were the grumpiest.... ...Probably caught that 'face' off it's Monday morning multitude of commuters. I've always thought that the introduction of the, inverted, black triangle, added a welcoming / cheery smile to one end of an, otherwise, 'blank face' of the 2 car Emus / 2/3 car Demus. May I, also, take this opportunity to thank Colin for keeping us all enthralled by his expertise. Also to Dave, Howard, SRnan, et al, for making this topic one of the best to come out of RMweb. Here's wishing you All,.... a Very Merry / Cheery Christmas and the Very Best of New Years. Cheers, Frank. Edited December 19, 2013 by Ceptic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Depends who were the grumpiest.... ...Probably caught that 'face' off it's Monday morning multitude of commuters. I've always thought that the introduction of the, inverted, black triangle, added a welcoming / cheery smile to one end of an, otherwise, 'blank face' of the 2 car Emus / 2/3 car Demus. ScannedImage-8 (2).jpg May I, also, take this opportunity to thank Colin for keeping us all enthralled by his expertise. Also to Dave, Howard, SRnan, et al, for making this topic one of the best to come out of RMweb. Here's wishing you All,.... a Very Merry / Cheery Christmas and the Very Best of New Years. Cheers, Frank. Hi Frank, Thanks indeed for your comments on the 4 SUB - just hope the paint job doesn't disappoint! That 2 BIL's triangle looks a bit higher than usual, more like a Charlie Chaplin moustache perhaps? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Thanks Neil, I can see a 'face' in those old units: Some describe the 4 SUB cab front design as looking friendly, others 'severe', but to me it looks like a train rather fed up with carrying passengers! All the best, Colin I grew up in South London, and as a small boy in the 1950s I did find the fronts of the SUBs quite severe! But not as severe as the 2-HALs, though. Our train was invariably an EPB, which to me has a friendly face compared with the SUBs and 2-HALs. Sometimes while waiting for our train, a 2-HAL formation would pass through the station at speed on its way to Maidstone, which I found unnerving! Perhaps the EPBs look more friendly because they have smaller driver's windows with prominent rain strips - their "eyes" have proper "eyebrows", unlike the bare, somewhat "bulging", eyes of the SUBs. Edited December 19, 2013 by RFS 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hi John, I seem to recall reading (somewhere on this topic?!) that a 4 SUB was scheduled for a parcels working to Brighton from Waterloo via Portsmouth Harbour. I can't remember if the unit went back the way it came or up the Brighton line back to London. I'm not sure about the SUBs working with BILs and HALs, didn't they have a different control system?: the SUBs had a control potentiometer to regulate the line voltage current for the lights etc., while the BILs etc. had a 70v generator set. (Could be wrong on this, as electrical matters are not my strong point.) All the best, Colin Edit: Apologies for the mental aberration: 4 SUB 4732 and 2 BIL 2090 ran together which proves was wrong re. compatibility - oops! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Edit: Apologies for the mental aberration: 4 SUB 4732 and 2 BIL 2090 ran together which proves was wrong re. compatibility - oops! Well it will be our trainset, so we could run anything that would look believable! Edit: That would be with your approval of course Rod! Edited December 20, 2013 by Re6/6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 The psychology of EMU faces, an endless subject ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Edit: Apologies for the mental aberration: 4 SUB 4732 and 2 BIL 2090 ran together which proves was wrong re. compatibility - oops!But that was after "preservation", wasn't it, so they might have altered one or both of them so they could run together. Edited December 20, 2013 by Budgie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Good point - I don't recall seeing any working together in their BR operational days, either for real or in photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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