Eurostar to run direct services to Amsterdam in 2016

[Ron Ron Ron]

Were you unlucky at Ebbsfleet or have I always been lucky? That's a big contrast to my own experiences there, usually for the Brussels trains at 07xx or 09xx ish weekdays, when I've never taken more than 10 mins from car drop-off to the waiting area beyond security, even when carrying a fold-up bike. 

 

It was the first time we've used Ebbsfleet.

We only went from there because of the parking facilities and we were joining friends travelling from their home in north east Kent.

I thought the station was nicely laid out and the nearest car parks only a short stroll away, although the location is in a god forsaken part of the country and can be windswept.

The only issue was the long queue for border control and the security scanner.

We may have been unlucky, as there was a large number of people boarding our train to Brussels, but they seemed unprepared to handle that number of passengers through the aforementioned checks.

Unlike at an airport, you are carrying your own hold size luggage with you and it all has to be scanned.

There was a lot of luggage with most of the passengers going out on tour trips.

 

On top of that, although the train arrived on time from St. Pancras, it took so long to board everyone joining at Ebbsfleet, that it left 10 minutes late for Brussels.

 

 

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Edited February 10, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[jjb1970]

I can see the logic of a service to Koln for people going to the Koln area (which does include quite a large catchment area, for example quite a lot of the German government still works in Bonn) but once you go much beyond Koln I think the train is increasingly unattractive. There is a large market beyond Brussels for sure and it amazes me that Eurostar have taken so long to service the Netherlands but I tend to think that Amsterdam and Koln are probably the sensible limit for the Brussels route. And I still hope they'll stop at Antwerp.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I have to admit, the "Check in" process & waiting area at both St. Pancras & Brussels Midi are generally depressing experiences.

 

The Eurostar waiting area (I hesitate to call it a departure lounge) at Brussels Midi, is a dark, badly lit and depressing dungeon. 

It's horrible.

 

The last couple of times we've come through there, the train has been delayed by some technical issue or other.

The last time was a broken window (apparently) and a replacement train had to be brought in, resulting in well over an hours delay.

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

I can see the logic of a service to Koln for people going to the Koln area (which does include quite a large catchment area, for example quite a lot of the German government still works in Bonn) but once you go much beyond Koln I think the train is increasingly unattractive. There is a large market beyond Brussels for sure and it amazes me that Eurostar have taken so long to service the Netherlands but I tend to think that Amsterdam and Koln are probably the sensible limit for the Brussels route. And I still hope they'll stop at Antwerp.

 

The press keeps talking of Frankfurt, beyond Koln. Primarily because of the banking sector and now because the post-Brexit scenario.

However, with a 5 hr train journey time, which means total journey times are going to be 6 and a half to 7 hrs, I can't see this being attractive when you can fly with a city to city, door to door time of around 3 hrs.

 

Note that London City Airport is undergoing an expansion scheme that will increase its capacity by quite a bit.

There are already 9 flights a day between LCY and FRA and this particular route is expected to see more flights when the work is completed.

 

(p.s. There are also 19 or 20 flights per day between LHR and FRA)

 

 

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Edited February 10, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

Business Traveller Magazine says....

 

 

 

".....On the return journey travellers will initially have to take a Thalys train from Amsterdam or Rotterdam and change at Brussels-Midi/Zuid to go through security – there are then a choice of up to ten daily services between Brussels and London....."

 

 

Railway Gazette says.....

 

 

 

".....However, there will be no direct Amsterdam – London trains until at least the end of 2019 because border and security checks will continue to be undertaken in Brussels, requiring passengers to change trains. ....

....In the interim period, Eurostar told Railway Gazette that it will operate two Amsterdam – Brussels trains to complement the existing Thalys high speed service between the two cities...."

 

 

Which suggests that the Eurostar trains will return from AMS to BRU as additional Thalys services, until through services can be operated.

 

 

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[The Stationmaster]

I can see the logic of a service to Koln for people going to the Koln area (which does include quite a large catchment area, for example quite a lot of the German government still works in Bonn) but once you go much beyond Koln I think the train is increasingly unattractive. There is a large market beyond Brussels for sure and it amazes me that Eurostar have taken so long to service the Netherlands but I tend to think that Amsterdam and Koln are probably the sensible limit for the Brussels route. And I still hope they'll stop at Antwerp.

 

Amsterdam was cropping up as a potential Eurostar destination 20 years ago but there were various reasons why it never happened -

 

1. Eurostar UK's commercial arm wasn't in the least bit interested in the idea - they tended to see Eurostar as a service between London and Paris/Brussels with little interest in, or indeed knowledge of (in some important cases), what happened beyond those two places.

 

2. The class 373 trains were unsuitable for operating on the NS cab signalling system and conversion to it would have involved major alterations.  For example the NS cab signalling system required a circular speedometer layout whereas Class 373 had a ribbon speedometer so it wasn't just a case of adding sensors and additional electronics.

 

3. The security issue is an ever present problem in operating Eurostar trains beyond the core route (I hear the 'solution' currently being talked about for the inward journey to the UK involves detraining at Brussels and, in effect, dropping back to a later departure from there - presumably until security etc matters are sorted in Holland - assuming they ever will be).

 

A timetable, albeit with a far from rapid journey time, was perfectly possible 20 years ago although it would have involved an early (07.27) departure from Waterloo.  One important thin g which needs to be kept in mind is that while Amsterdam is reportedly a much favoured destination for visitors from Britain competition among the various ways of getting there is very stiff with price being an important element.  It was becoming increasingly the case that the proposed overnight sleeper/seated passenger service from Waterloo was moving onto ever shakier economic ground as the cheap airlines bit into the leisure market.

 

It remains my view that in many respects Köln would probably be a better destination than Amsterdam.  The German route was always perceived as the commercially strongest for the night trains although Frankfurt is in my view too long a journey to be competitive for a daytime train.  It is a great pity, and in my view to their eternal discredit, that the commercial arm of Eurostar UK wouldn't buy into the excellent DB proposal for what amounted to a spinal timetable with carefully arranged intermediate connections on the axis London - Brussels - Aachen - Köln - Frankfurt - Basel - Berne.  The DB proposal was to provide an hourly interval timetable throughout the day although they agreed that the London leg would probably be on a 2 hourly interval.  Eurostar UK commercial couldn't even be bothered to look at DB's detailed proposal although both SNCB and SBB were keen on the idea - alas it was all too typical of Eurostar UK commercial thought at that time.

[Vanders]

Note that London City Airport is undergoing an expansion scheme that will increase its capacity by quite a bit.

There are already 9 flights a day between LCY and FRA and this particular route is expected to see more flights when the work is completed.

Having done AMS->LCY and back again, I can happily recommend it. The flight is so quick they may as well not bother with any drink service, and even allowing for the security queues at Schipol I can personally do door to door from my home just outside Amsterdam to the office in London (Regent St.) in under 4 hours.

 

Not to mention landing & takeoff at LCY is an exciting experience!

[jjb1970]

The Eurostar terminal in Brussels is oddly reflective of Brussels, much better to go to Antwerp or any of the many other places in Belgium that are much nicer than Brussels. I love Antwerp and Belgium in general, and think SNCB is a sorely underrated railway system with some splendid trains but I really don't like Brussels. Mind you, I spend most of my time around Schumann and where the EU institutions are and that area is a weird place. And the area around Gare du Midi is awful. In fairness the grand square and some areas around Brussels Central Station are quite nice.

[The Stationmaster]

The Eurostar terminal in Brussels is oddly reflective of Brussels, much better to go to Antwerp or any of the many other places in Belgium that are much nicer than Brussels. I love Antwerp and Belgium in general, and think SNCB is a sorely underrated railway system with some splendid trains but I really don't like Brussels. Mind you, I spend most of my time around Schumann and where the EU institutions are and that area is a weird place. And the area around Gare du Midi is awful. In fairness the grand square and some areas around Brussels Central Station are quite nice.

 

But you can get some excellent chips of the superb Belgian variety from a roadside stall adjacent to the old Bourse (unless it's been moved on since my last visit?).  I have considerable respect for the way SNCB do many things - streets ahead of SNCf in operational professionalism and we could learn a lot from them when it comes to getting major infrastructure projects done and the manner in which their planning of such works and the trains around them makes NR look like a bunch of amateurs.

[brushman47544]

But you can get some excellent chips of the superb Belgian variety from a roadside stall adjacent to the old Bourse (unless it's been moved on since my last visit?).

Sorry to digress, but the best chips in Brussels can be got at Maison Antoine in Place Jourdan. Nearest stations Brussels Schumann and Brussels Luxembourg, to keep it relevant-ish.

[jjb1970]

The one and only redeeming feature of the ghastly Albert Borschette conference centre is that it is next door to Place Jordan.

I have always been impressed with SNCB and the service levels are excellent. I think it is a shame that Gare du Midi is the first experience of Belgium for many visitors.

[The Stationmaster]

The one and only redeeming feature of the ghastly Albert Borschette conference centre is that it is next door to Place Jordan.

I have always been impressed with SNCB and the service levels are excellent. I think it is a shame that Gare du Midi is the first experience of Belgium for many visitors.

 

The only good thing you can say about Bruxelles Midi-Zuid is that it is considerably improved on the way it was when Eurostar first opened - which is just as well if you happened to know it back then.

[Revolution Mike]

The one and only redeeming feature of the ghastly Albert Borschette conference centre is that it is next door to Place Jordan.

 

 

I spend too much of my time there!

 

Cheers, Mike

[jjb1970]

I thought I'd escaped and seen the last of the place a couple of years ago but unfortunately I appear to be drifting back.

[hmrspaul]

I spend too much of my time there!

 

Cheers, Mike

 

The one and only redeeming feature of the ghastly Albert Borschette conference centre is that it is next door to Place Jordan.

I have always been impressed with SNCB and the service levels are excellent. I think it is a shame that Gare du Midi is the first experience of Belgium for many visitors.

Happy memories - and the Albert Borschette was a vast improvement on some of the other meeting places.

 

I miss the parakeets and Egyptian Geese in Parc Leopold. A lovely walk every lunchtime

 

Has Gare du Midi been improved? It always amuses me when people criticise Birmingham New Street as was, they have never seen Midi or even worse Central!

 

Paul

[jjb1970]

The main concourse of Gare du Midi isn't that bad, not the best but far from the worst station in the world. The Eurostar terminal is a bit of a dive though. The main problem for Gare du Midi is it sits in the middle of a bit of a dump (no offence to any residents of the area who may be reading). And the near constant presence of the Belgian army moping around with assault rifles ogling the talent walking by doesn't really inspire much confidence (in fairness it's not just Gare du Midi, they seem to use the army as an alternative to the Police in large areas of the city).

 

Antwerp on the other hand is a magnificent station, the multi-level open design is stunning.

[Vanders]

Antwerp on the other hand is a magnificent station, the multi-level open design is stunning.

Great to look at & admire, but cold dark and not particularly comfortable to hang around in, it turns out. Hopefully that may improve once the work is finished.

[jjb1970]

Great to look at & admire, but cold dark and not particularly comfortable to hang around in, it turns out. Hopefully that may improve once the work is finished.

Indeed, I can see that this might be the case. I use it semi-frequently but generally don't loiter (you never have to wait long for a train to Brussels). The old station building is still impressive too.

[hmrspaul]

The main concourse of Gare du Midi isn't that bad, not the best but far from the worst station in the world. The Eurostar terminal is a bit of a dive though. The main problem for Gare du Midi is it sits in the middle of a bit of a dump (no offence to any residents of the area who may be reading). And the near constant presence of the Belgian army moping around with assault rifles ogling the talent walking by doesn't really inspire much confidence (in fairness it's not just Gare du Midi, they seem to use the army as an alternative to the Police in large areas of the city).

 

 

Good to learn that they are taking security more seriously. That underpass was dreadful for muggings - I avoided it there, but was mugged 4 times in the 20 plus years I regularly visited. Lovely city, but it has serious problems.

 

Paul