Leeds Trams at Crich

[Londontram]

Thanks. Regards Steve 

[Barry O]

Who actually "owns" the Leeds Trams in the National Collection as I understood they were "on indefinite Loan" - but from whom? At the time they were moved 602 and the Mumbles car had been torched at the Middleton railway and there was nowhere safe to put them in a city which just wanted rid of the trams .

 

Last time I saw 600 there was no mention of damage to the bogies - everyone at Crich was very afraid of the control gear. It is said that it isn't recognised for what it is - one of the last non Blackpool trams built to try out a new future for trams in Leeds.. so to say its not important is not correct and shows why it needs to be moved.

 

Big problem with Crich is - it is difficult to get to.  and if we do want our trams back how could we get them out without serious damage?

[Edwin_m]

Big problem with Crich is - it is difficult to get to.  and if we do want our trams back how could we get them out without serious damage?

 

I suppose Crich suffers a bit from being an early project of preservation - a decade or so later and there would have been many disused railways to choose from in more urban areas which might have been both easier to get to and a more appropriate "habitat" without having to go to the lengths of relocating buildings etc.  Then again, a decade or so later many of the trams that were actually saved would have gone for scrap instead.  And Crich is reasonably central for the country, convenient the Northern cities where the tram was arguably most significant, although the public transport access is less than great. 

 

On a global scale of things the need to cut back a few trees when trams are moved isn't a big issue, as long as somebody remembers to do it! 

[PLD]

Who actually "owns" the Leeds Trams in the National Collection as I understood they were "on indefinite Loan" - but from whom?

All are the property of the Tramway Museum Society (TMS) all were either gifted direct to the TMS by Leeds City Council or purchased by the Leeds Tramway Historical Society (LTHS) and susequently transferred to the TMS. [from memory I think 399, Tower car 2 and AN Other recently joined by Horse Car 107]

 

At the time they were moved 602 and the Mumbles car had been torched at the Middleton railway

I think you mean 601? Last time I was at Crich about a month ago, 602 was safe and sound in the Exhibition Hall...

 

Last time I saw 600 there was no mention of damage to the bogies - everyone at Crich was very afraid of the control gear. It is said that it isn't recognised for what it is - one of the last non Blackpool trams built to try out a new future for trams in Leeds.. so to say its not important is not correct and shows why it needs to be moved.

Being pragmatic, I'd say that 602 is far more significant than 600. In reality 602 was the inovative 'final roll of the dice' for the British tram wheras 600 is a cobbled together mish-mash. 602 is the one I'd focus attention on.

 

I'm not saying a Yorkshire equivalent of the Heaton Park line would be a bad thing but it needs a serious business plan and funding to be in place before consideration is taken to moving trams. You can't start by 'claiming' trams from elsewhere and then working out what to do with them...

[jamie92208]

In the very early dys of tram preservation in Leeds there was an attempt to use the line up to Temple Newsam as a museum line but it foundered on the problem of no secure depot accommodation.  It would have been a lovely run if it was still in use today.  Similar to Heaton Park.  When we were doing 107 up at Whitkirk I sometimes used to drive up that way from Halton and think of what might have been or how lovely it would have been to see a Feltham come swinging round the bend.

 

Jamie

[Greenbat]

With 60, the trees had the sheer cheek to grow leaves, which weighed down the branches that were previously out the way. I think it rained too, which made it worse. Another lesson learnt!

600's control gear is electro=pneumatic, which is pretty well understood. Its similar, or the same as, 1282, 1297, 1100 and 869. The EMB bogies it has were well known for fracturing, which is what 600 suffers from. Again, 869 has similar bogies that have fixed up OK.

602 has VAMBAC control gear. My understanding of this is that it was going to be an improved version of PCC control, but somehow morphed into a knockoff of PCC. It gives automatic accelleration and electric brake among other things. Unfortunately it is notoriously unreliable-it broke down when Leeds unveiled it to the press. 601 (which caught fire at Middleton) was an EP car, they were comparing the two systems.

Despite what you may have read elsewhere, 602 isn't quite fully operational. It needs rewiring, and a bogie overhaul. I'm not sure when, if ever, the wheel bearings were last looked at-the grease will probably be like tar by now. Wouldn't surprise me if it needed the VAMBAC gear overhauling too. Not impossible, it just needs funding.

[Andy Bailey]

 

Crich loans to Blackpool for 125th Aniversary 2010:

 

Initial List:

• Blackpool Standard 40 (move cancelled after 60's incident)
• Blackpool 167 (axle seased on first day of use - Private hire for TMS and FTS members)
• Jo'burg 60 (hit trees en-route and turned back to Crich: Crich blamed Haulier because of route taken, Haulier blamed Crich because more was several weeks later than originally intended)
• LCC 106 (overhaul at Crich delayed so not ready in time)
• Leeds 399 (move cancelled after 60's incident)
• Oporto 273 (derailed on first test run - never left depot again)

Later addition in leu of above Cancelations:

• B&F Rack 2 (suffered overheating resistances on one run but otherwise ran successfully most of the week)

 

Regards 106, it was being prepared to go to Blackpool when there was issues found with the gears. One was found to be worn after a few years of service and loose on the axle. 273 I believe had done quite a bit of training running before it derailed at Pleasure Beach.

Regards

Andy

[Andy Bailey]

With regards to 602, there is also the issue of a leaking roof. The roof was patched up about 10 years ago I believe (I loose track of time) but further leaks developed around the tower. This would be a major job as it also involves the removal of the tower along with the control gear. The vambac gear does require overhauling and there are also issues with some contactor gear in one of the cabs. Like all jobs at Crich it's time and money.

Mark, regards 600 being used as a store for Halloween gear, this is being sorted as it's not the correct way to conserve a vehicle.

As to vehicles leaving Crich, Don't forget Gateshead 52 is going to Beamish in the near future when a plan is formulated for its extraction from the back of the shed.

Regards

 

Andy