TREE POINT

[torikoos]

Hello all,

 

in the 'Track planning for US layouts thread' I have introduced some track plans recently, for comment etc.

 

I have now decided on a track plan, and also partly due to Mal's suggestion to start a separate thread on it, here it is.

I have named it Tree Point, WI.  

Tree Point is a name generated by a 'random' place names generator I found online, and sounded good. It also sounds like '3 points', which is the exact number of  points/switches/turn-outs on the layout .

 

It is designed as an End board, and can only be extended in it's current design on the left hand side. The boards will be build to the NMRA-BR spec for module boards which means they are 18" wide , and have the main track dead center (in this case only on one side). (By the way these specs were based on the RS Tower spec). 

 

I haven't completely decided on the grain elevator industry. A mock up will eventually prove if there's sufficient space for it. If not I'll change it to something else. The Corn Syrup is a 100% definite, and the team track / loco spur I am also pretty certain off.

 

The track has been ordered and the foam board on which I will build it have been cut to size.  I hope to be posting pictures of it's progress here. 

 

 

 

Koos

[devious diesel]

Hi 

 

 

Looks like a good plan.

 

David

[dave1905]

This question pertains to both the N American Inglenook and this thread.

 

What in the these plans makes them a "N American" design?

 

Is it the track plan itself?

Is it the scenic details?

Is it the rolling stock?

Is it the choice of industries?

Is it the operation?

 

How would I know this is a NA layout and not a BR layout?  Since there has been some discussion of the characteristics of a NA layout, and these are both NA layouts, what is the characteristic that makes them NA?

[bxmoore]

This question pertains to both the N American Inglenook and this thread.

 

What in the these plans makes them a "N American" design?

 

Is it the track plan itself?

Is it the scenic details?

Is it the rolling stock?

Is it the choice of industries?

Is it the operation?

 

How would I know this is a NA layout and not a BR layout?  Since there has been some discussion of the characteristics of a NA layout, and these are both NA layouts, what is the characteristic that makes them NA?

Apart from the buildings and obviously the rolling stock and perhaps scenery, US-type designs feature the prototype's almost universal lack of catch points, and a far more laid-back attitude to safety at road crossings and trackside (no protective fence).  The physical track design is subtly different too.  Real-life operation wouldn't be too different in switching/shunting moves, but in model form, the type of "live operations" (using JMRI or car cards and instructions) that you see increasingly on US-themed layouts in the UK, is far, far ahead in comparison to most British-outline layouts. 

[torikoos]

This question pertains to both the N American Inglenook and this thread.

 

What in the these plans makes them a "N American" design?

 

Is it the track plan itself?

Is it the scenic details?

Is it the rolling stock?

Is it the choice of industries?

Is it the operation?

 

How would I know this is a NA layout and not a BR layout?  Since there has been some discussion of the characteristics of a NA layout, and these are both NA layouts, what is the characteristic that makes them NA?

 

 

Very good questions, and I guess the most fitting answer would probably be 'it depends', although the easy answer is 'because I decided it is' :-) 

 

Certainly modern railroads would all be designed to maximum efficiency, so this particular track plan could both be British, and NA.  

From a modeling point of view, the small shelf layout was popular in Britain and Europe, long before it became so in the US, where people had more space, and/or have been swamped in the so called 4 by 8 roundy roundy table concept. Even today, new 4 by 8 track plans dominate, however the likes of Lance Mindheim and others have introduced the switching layout to a larger audience, and it is becoming more and more popular.

 

I think therefore it would largely be a combination of :

-Name

-Scenery (incl structures and industries) 

-Type of track (US track looks different from british or european track, tiespacing, and arrangement are different)

-Rolling stock and locomotives

-Operations? 

 

 

So I guess it is what you make of it, that will determine if you have a US layout or not, or put it this way, the locale you decide to model determines what it is.

Tree types, architecture, track work, signalling, cars and trucks,  soil colour, names of places, etc etc and the trains combined make something north american.

 

That , at least is how I see it, I might overlook something, so lets see if someone has something to add or corrects me :-)

 

Koos

[Alcanman]

I like the look of your plan, Koos. Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Could you please remind me of the length of the layout and do you intend to use a storage cassette or traverser at the left hand side?

 

Mal

[JWB]

Very good questions, and I guess the most fitting answer would probably be 'it depends', although the easy answer is 'because I decided it is' :-) 

 

 

-Operations? 

 

 

The last question, Operations, is the big one here. Not long ago, I got a set of DVDs on sale from Green Frog, which were put together on behalf of the Missouri Pacific Historical Society. They are mostly training films from the 1970s, with some PR films thrown in. All of them are utterly fascinating (my wife watched them with me, and now notes when we watch other rail DVDs things like, "Oh, now I see, he's inspecting the train for defects", and so forth).

 

However, the one film I found most fascinating was a pretty long one on implementing a new computerized yard management system, even though it was all talking heads, computer screens, and clerks with punch cards. In combination with the Freericks editions on Los Angeles area locals, it added a whole new dimension to how I see operation, and this comes down to the track plan under discussion.

 

It's entirely credible that the plan shown could reflect a prototype -- a cut acting as a train is shoved to the end of a branch, and the crew spends an hour or two once or twice a week switching out the industries, although in reality there would be fewer in a place like this -- and again, the local would run there once or twice a week, with not too many moves. Lance Mindheim would stretch this out by reminding people to wait for the length of time it would take an assistant conductor to walk half a mile, open property gates, etc etc etc. [Looking at this again, though, you would not have a loco staying there, it would be running from a yard at some more or less distant place and going back.]

 

On the other hand, essentially the same trackage in a yard is worked as much as 24/7. As an example of how to run the new yard system, the MP film ran an example of a switcher switching out just one track with 10 cars -- first shift, west switcher, foreman Smith. The cars went to several tracks with differing destinations. Some to local industries by zone-industry-spot (no model operations scheme I've ever seen includes zone), others to transfers.

 

You could set up an operation like this in not much more space with maybe one or two more switches, and it seems to me you'd have something much more interesting, something Lance Mindheim would hate, something Tony Koester would turn up his nose at, something Andy Sperandeo would say "zone -- what's that?" But it would keep someone interested for far longer than the typical stub-end of a local shove type layout.

[shortliner]

 

On the other hand, essentially the same trackage in a yard is worked as much as 24/7. As an example of how to run the new yard system, the MP film ran an example of a switcher switching out just one track with 10 cars -- first shift, west switcher, foreman Smith. The cars went to several tracks with differing destinations. Some to local industries by zone-industry-spot (no model operations scheme I've ever seen includes zone), others to transfers.

 

You could set up an operation like this in not much more space with maybe one or two more switches, and it seems to me you'd have something much more interesting, something Lance Mindheim would hate, something Tony Koester would turn up his nose at, something Andy Sperandeo would say "zone -- what's that?" But it would keep someone interested for far longer than the typical stub-end of a local shove type layout.

 

John - I, for one, would be interested to see your thoughts on a track plan for this - especially as I'm looking at a new, small-space, trackplan to build over the winter or early next year

[JWB]

I'm opening a new topic on this.

[torikoos]

I like the look of your plan, Koos. Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Could you please remind me of the length of the layout and do you intend to use a storage cassette or traverser at the left hand side?

 

Mal

Hi Mal, this plan is 6 ft long, and 18" wide (two boards of 3feet each).  I will probably make a traverser or at least a bolt on piece of track of about 1 ft at some stage to be able to switch more than one car at a time, but it is also designed to be able to be joined up to other NMRA-BR spec modules at the left side.

 

Koos

[Glorious NSE]

Certainly modern railroads would all be designed to maximum efficiency, so this particular track plan could both be British, and NA.  

 

In a strictly modern context, that being a plausible modern UK plan would be near impossible, just because our real railway is predicated against wagonload traffic from private sidings...in the US it is still plausible (although you can argue about how likely it would be) as that kind of operation does exist.

[torikoos]

Well, progress at least is quick in the sense that I haven't even been able to work on the boards to give them facias and some additional structural strength, and now DHL is at the door with an oversized box from Germany, containing 3 Peco turnouts, rail joiners, Flex track, and Hayes bumper kits... 

Yesterday , I already received 4 Peco turnouts to use for my home layout, that I modified last night to make them electrically more reliable (these are insulfrogs , and I've added the little jumpers underneath).  (My home layout still partly has Code 75 turnouts installed and I'm slowly transitioning to US outline code 83). 

So my job for the coming weeks is to add Conrad motors to these points, and then install them at home, but that's another story.

 

The other job, more relevant to this thread, is to make the same mods to the 3 turnouts received today, (and order another 3 motors....), and get those boards prepared to the extend that I can start laying track on them...

[torikoos]

I couldn't resist trying the look and feel in 1:1 model scale as opposed to the track plan drawing, so I put the track and turnouts down on the two pieces of foam board, roughly where they're going to be.  I think it's going to work, but space for a grain elevator... not so sure.

 

 

[torikoos]

My local group, some years ago, were planning to construct double sided modular boards. A rather elaborate plan that would eventually see us construct a layout on which partly 'Donner Pass' would have been modeled.  History took a different turn, and we abandoned those plans for now, and went and constructed NMRA-BR spec modules, so we could join up with our friends of RS Tower.  (and have done so a couple of times since).

I also started construction of double sided boards, and already had a couple of pieces of wood sawn to size, and never used them, and not thrown them out either. So when I checked the basement of my flat here, there they were. They are a near perfect fit for my new foam boards, I need to do a bit of trimming, but I'm nearly there. Board construction therefore got a nice little push in the right direction very quickly. :-)

 

 

[Talltim]

When you say double sided I assume you don't mean track/scenery on the top and bottom?!

[Glorious NSE]

They would have had a centre backscene, so effectively two narrow back-to-back scenes, linked by balloon loops on the end(s) of the run

[bxmoore]

Here's an N Gauge version of the double-sided idea, that Steve Smith built.  It's essentially a dog-bone with track running either side. The only hidden storage on this layout is in the rather short space inside each end. 

 

As Koos said, we had plans to build double-sided modules in HO scale that were quite advanced, but the whole thing became too much for five or so people to build, as we required return loops at the end of each set(s) of modules, so that the trains could (obviously) run along the other side.  Do-able in N, but a bridge to far in HO.

 

Brian

[torikoos]

A quick update: I've got two base boards constructed, and in the process of sanding the transition between boards to make sure they're nice and flush.

I've re-enforced to boards by some wooden batten along the edges on the underside, using 1"x1" pieces of wood. 

I've got a few more cosmetic things to sort out and then I'm hoping to start on some track laying..

 

I have not yet constructed legs for them, although useful, I can work on them by the dinner table for now.

 

Koos

[CVSNE]

You could set up an operation like this in not much more space with maybe one or two more switches, and it seems to me you'd have something much more interesting, something Lance Mindheim would hate, something Tony Koester would turn up his nose at, something Andy Sperandeo would say "zone -- what's that?" But it would keep someone interested for far longer than the typical stub-end of a local shove type layout.

Insightful, relevant comments until this last paragraph which is strictly hyperbole.

[torikoos]

A couple weeks later sees the completion of the initial track work.

PCB board has been used on the transition from one board to the next for added strength, several ties removed for a more 'run down' look, and all plastic between ties underneath the rail cut away prior to installing the flex rail (all PECO code 83) to create more 'air' below the rail for a more realistic appearance.


Tree Point by K2K Koos, on Flickr

And from the other side:


Tree Point by K2K Koos, on Flickr

Next is to install the dropper wires for the track power feeds.

Koos

 

[torikoos]

Bit of an update:

 

I've decided against turnout motors for this small track plan, and gone with Caboose Industries ground throws instead, to enhance the operations potential a little, and get a little more involved. :-)

 

They've been installed, and painted a rust colour

 

I've painted and drybrushed all ties first with a variety of artist acrylics. Using Burnt Umber, Raw siena, and titanium white in various blends to get rid of the 'plastic' look, and more like wood, once ballasted, more drybrushing and weathering powders will follow.

 

. I've also proceeded with painting of the track a dark rust colour.

 

Caboose hobbies ground throw by K2K Koos, on Flickr

 

Track painting by K2K Koos, on Flickr

 

 

Now that's done, I can continue with some base scenery and work on some buildings in due course.

 

Koos

[torikoos]

I wasn't quite sure how to hide the oversize PCB pieces on the module board joints that I used to hold the track in place better, so I've decided to hide these by adding a road here.

I used a cardboard sub bed, and on top of that I've glued styrene sheet. After painting this up I'll cut it through the middle using a sharp knife or razor saw, to that the road markings are on that line, hopefully hiding the joint a little. 

 

Road construction by K2K Koos, on Flickr

 

Koos

[torikoos]

Moving swiftly on, a base grey colour made with a base mix of artist acrylic paints was painted on. While it is drying I'm also scribing in some random cracks which will hopefully highlight once I give it a wash with dilluted india ink. A bit of an experiment really.

 

Road painting by K2K Koos, on Flickr

 

 

Koos

[torikoos]

This evening I've started ballast application, here's the first section, still soaking wet from water and white glue....


Ballast application to Tree Point by K2K Koos, on Flickr

and another view.


Ballast application to Tree Point by K2K Koos, on Flickr

 

The light colour ballast is a grey aquarium sand, and the brown is some left over 'Bush' Z scale ballast, which I deliberately used and blended in more and more towards the end of the module, so it would match the colour on my Wolter Springs module.
Koos

 

[torikoos]

Now that the ballasting is done, I've turned my attention to structures.

I have started on the corn syrup industry, for which I used parts of a Pikestuff kit. (the 2 stall engine house).

The space on the module is a bit too tight to use the full width and length of the building, so I reduced the width by about 1", and the length by half.

As Pikestuff is very recognisable with their blue and white colours, I painted mine using artist acrylics. A couple of fades on the walls to start with, and a solid grey colour on the roof. A lot more still needs doing,  but the basic idea is here.

Next to the building I'll be modeling some syrup silos etc, and of course piping etc for the unloading facility.  The view below is from the rear, with the unloading spur in the background.

 

Corn syrup building by K2K Koos, on Flickr