Londontram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi chaps have any of you got any plans photo's or drawings of the Caley 6 wheel coaches you could scan or send (will cover any costs) anything at all will be a help, regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi chaps have any of you got any plans photo's or drawings of the Caley 6 wheel coaches you could scan or send (will cover any costs) anything at all will be a help, regards Steve Steve, Now that you've got the drawings for the 45ft coaches, you can deduce the drawings for the MacIntosh period six wheelers since the compartment dimensions were the same - all you need to know is the centre distances. Later, I can look in my copy of the large coach diagram book and get the lengths and compartment centre distances for you. I haven't tried it, but you might be lucky enough to do a cut and paste of the 45ft coach drawing. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hello Jim. I'm with you on that one already that's why photo's would be very helpful for compartment layout ie. composite combinations, brake compartments, door positions, guards ducket's, roof vents, step board and end detail etc. The 6 wheels coaches were all about 30 ft give or take an inch or so I believe so working on the idea that coach compartments are all mostly the same size its not hard to adjust the plans you sent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hello Jim. I'm with you on that one already that's why photo's would be very helpful for compartment layout ie. composite combinations, brake compartments, door positions, guards ducket's, roof vents, step board and end detail etc. The 6 wheels coaches were all about 30 ft give or take an inch or so I believe so working on the idea that coach compartments are all mostly the same size its not hard to adjust the plans you sent Steve, I've just dug out my copy of the large coach diagram book and there is quite a variation in length of the six wheeled stock in the book - from 30ft up to 35ft 6 1/2". You also have to watch out for the diagram books since they do include WCJS which are not annotated as such. The only ones I can state as being Caledonian designed/originated are the ones with "H" numbers which were the St.Rollox order numbers, and these coaches are the longest ones at 35ft 6 1/2". The H numbers are H28, H71, H62, H63 and H58 - a 30ft full brake. These H numbers put them in the late 1880/early 1890 period which would mean Drummond compartment details (2' 2" wide doors) and probably without the lower panelling details of the earlier Drummond stock. I can knock off copies of the pages and email them to you. There are two vehicles at 30ft length shown as Diagram 12 and 13. Diag.12 is a four compartment composite with a central luggage area and Diag. 13 is a four compartment composite with central lavatories. These might be WCJS. I have had a quick search through my books but can't find a good picture of any of the coaches mentioned above - there is one with a couple of them at the head of a train but the detail is only good enough to count compartments to identify the coaches. If you want to get further info, then the obvious place would be from the CRA but you would have to be a member to get full access to their forum. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Steve, Just emailed you some PDF copies from the Diagram book. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 The down loads came through fine thank you Jim, If you think about it there's got to be a degree of variation in coach length with single class and composites with different compartment length but boy there's some strange combinations there....food for thought me thinks. I had an idea as a way to cut out some of the work involved with cutting the round ends to the recessed sections on the fret for the coach sides, as I do classic car restoration as well I remembered I had a set of hole punches used for cutting holes in gasket paper or cork when making gaskets and thought there might be a way to say punch two holes and just join them up but despite clamping a test section of 5 thou plasticard between a steal rule and my cutting bench I couldn't get a quality I was happy with so its back to hand cutting and filing I guess though I might give it a go on a less flexible surface as I think my work bench wood top was to springy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted October 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2013 Steve, how about drilling two holes at each end and cutting betwixt them? Getting the drills lined up is the difficult bit, but i have done it (On my WCJS compo sleeper) but I was using 10thou instead of 5 thou plasticard. Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The down loads came through fine thank you Jim, If you think about it there's got to be a degree of variation in coach length with single class and composites with different compartment length but boy there's some strange combinations there....food for thought me thinks. I had an idea as a way to cut out some of the work involved with cutting the round ends to the recessed sections on the fret for the coach sides, as I do classic car restoration as well I remembered I had a set of hole punches used for cutting holes in gasket paper or cork when making gaskets and thought there might be a way to say punch two holes and just join them up but despite clamping a test section of 5 thou plasticard between a steal rule and my cutting bench I couldn't get a quality I was happy with so its back to hand cutting and filing I guess though I might give it a go on a less flexible surface as I think my work bench wood top was to springy Steve, I did use punches many years ago to do the panelling on coach sides but I sandwiched the Plastikard between two steel plates and punched through all three, and that worked well. I actually jig bored all the holes to do the panelling and the window corners for a complete compartment and had punches of several radii to suit. The punches were made by drilling all the holes required on one piece of steel then fitting dowel pins in each corner to ensure accurate location, then drilling through the holes on the already drilled plate to provide accurately located holed on the other plate. The dowel pins were located such that they held the blank Plastikard coach side in correct height register. It was quite a job to work out all the hole locations, then jig bore them in the lathe using a vertical slide and positioning the drill using the cross-slide and the vertical slide feedscrews. The idea wasn't mine - I got it from a short article in one of the model railway magazines some time in the 60s or 70s. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 Steve, how about drilling two holes at each end and cutting betwixt them? Getting the drills lined up is the difficult bit, but i have done it (On my WCJS compo sleeper) but I was using 10thou instead of 5 thou plasticard. Andy G Hello Andy that's how I normally do it as you say its getting the drill right is the problem which was one of the problem with the punch idea too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted October 26, 2013 Author Share Posted October 26, 2013 Steve, I did use punches many years ago to do the panelling on coach sides but I sandwiched the Plastikard between two steel plates and punched through all three, and that worked well. I actually jig bored all the holes to do the panelling and the window corners for a complete compartment and had punches of several radii to suit. The punches were made by drilling all the holes required on one piece of steel then fitting dowel pins in each corner to ensure accurate location, then drilling through the holes on the already drilled plate to provide accurately located holed on the other plate. The dowel pins were located such that they held the blank Plastikard coach side in correct height register. It was quite a job to work out all the hole locations, then jig bore them in the lathe using a vertical slide and positioning the drill using the cross-slide and the vertical slide feedscrews. The idea wasn't mine - I got it from a short article in one of the model railway magazines some time in the 60s or 70s. Jim. Good idea Jim but going way beyond my talents I fear. Being the bodge that I am I was looking at chopping some ratio coach sides or even looking to see if any thing could be done with some old Triang clerestory coaches (I know I know) when you start coming out with words like jig bore and lathe I just want to run for the hills, sorry to disappoint but I know my limits and I fear that this would be stepping out side my comfort zone. Now I'm just going to lay down in a dark room and have a think about what to do next. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 ....... There are two vehicles at 30ft length shown as Diagram 12 and 13. Diag.12 is a four compartment composite with a central luggage area and Diag. 13 is a four compartment composite with central lavatories. These might be WCJS. If ex. WCJS, these would be to LNWR specifications as I understand all WCJS was designed and built at Wolverton. If so, then the floor/seating plans should be in the HMRS's 'West Coast Joint Stock' book, the seating plans are very detailed. However apart from the 30' full brakes, they are all 32' or more in length. The WCJS 32' 4 compt. Luggage compo's built in 1877/8 became CR numbers 260 - 264, two of them surviving just long enough to receive LMS numbers. The WCJS 32' 4 compt. Lav. compo's built in 1877/8 became CR numbers 275 - 278, three of them surviving just long enough to receive LMS numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Oh great oracles of knowledge may I pick your brains again. on Caledonian 4 wheel 6 wheel and 45ft bogie non corridor coaches the brake coach ends are painted red. this is no mystery and has been discussed on the Caledonian association forum in the past (though the debate is still open some what to the exact shade though vermilion red seems favorite) I would guess that full brakes are red at both ends or if the duckets are in the center of the coach with luggage compartments either side but is this the case? The other questions are 1) on brake thirds where the brake compartment and thus the duckets are at one end of the coach. is it only the brake end that is red or are both ends red to show it's a brake vehicle which ever way it's seen from and 2) on brake composite coaches where the brake compartment and duckets are in the center of the coach with passenger compartments either side are the ends of these vehicles red as well to show that its a brake vehicle and finally 3) did the single crimson/brown colour brake coaches also have red ends. Thanks guys regards Steve Here's a link to the other forums discussion on the subject http://www.crassoc.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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