Dave's Workbench- Porthole Coach

[lekkie lad]

I've just made a start on hacking the first of 3 Lima CCTs to improve. it was going to be just 2 but then found I have 3 packs of the Laser Glaze packs. I picked up some ABS buffers at Scaleforum last weekend, but I'm not too sure if they are 100% accurate (but they're better than the Lima ones). I'm going to have a go at adding the brake gear (as there was a photo in a modelling mag of the underside of the Bachmann/Invicta model a few months ago.

 

Don't expect these to be completed quickly - they're in a long line of projects I've started (painting a DC Kits class 501, rewheeling a train of Hornby PCAs, building a lot of Cambrian ballast wagons...) Ah well, never a dull moment.

 

Ian S

[the penguin of doom]

If you're going to post progress Ian, please let us have a link etc. I have some that could do with improvement, but not knowing the prototype i side out, any advice from others is handy for me, (and others I'm sure).

 

This thread has been really useful for me already.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[drgj]

Have finished this blue CCT once more but I haven't fixed the roof on yet. was considering adding the window bars but I don't think I will bother as I am a bit fed up with it! This time I went back to enamel paints. Railmatch blue over grey primer from Halfords followed by Ronseal matt coat and then Humbrol no. 29 for a bit of weathering. How pleasant it was to easily get a nice finish without the airbrush clogging up.

 

As I said before this was an exercise in cheapness using bits and pieces and a damaged old Lima CCT.  The Bachmann one provides instant gratification and the price is definitely worth it considering the time it took to fiddle with this thing!

 

Dave

[drgj]

I was looking at the Bachmann class 85 and decided it was a bit dear so I thought I would make an early AL6 from a well used Hornby  class 86. I call it a representation because I just did it without worrying about small details or being totally accurate. I just made the major parts look a bit more like one.  I just filled in the parts on the lower edge of the body sides where the flexicoil suspension resides. I opened out the headcode panels and flush glazed them. the originals looked a bit small, I thought. I filed the springs on the black chassis flat and cut the remaining plastic into the inverted triangle parts found on tha AL6. I carved away all the unwanted parts from the bogies. The pantograph is made from the two outer supports of the original Phoenix pantograph to which I grafted an HO item. This looked a bit small so I lengthened the top part   and made it look like a Stone Faiveley (?) type withe help of brass wire, super glue and solder. It goes up and down ok but is a bit delicate. I used my Badger 200 airbrush to finish it. Colours were Rail Blue and White enamels. I mixed the colour for the warning panels. Diesel roof grey went on the roof as it seemed to look about the right colour.  I used Fox Transfers lion and wheel emblems, numbers and  headcode numerals/ letters.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by drgj

[Neil]

That's very neat work indeed; I like it lots.

[drgj]

Thanks very much.  Looking at the pictures I can see that a  little paint has crept under the masking tape above  the driver's door. It wasn't noticeable in the flesh. It took ages to get the numbers level. I looked at a picture of the real thing and saw that they are at the same level as the driver's door handles. When I looked again at the model there weren't any handles at all. Anyway I hope they are close enough to the right level.

 

There is a certain level of detail that I work to or I would go mad.  I did a light weathering because it smooths it all out a bit.

Edited November 9, 2014 by drgj

[Clive Mortimore]

Very impressed, just how a AL6 should look. Well done.

[drgj]

I built this in my usual way from bits I had. It is a first class coach that was a later type than the Hornby super detail type. It has some extra doors on the corridor side and the windows look more like those on a BR mk1 coach. It started as an Airfix 60ft composite which I cut down to 57', moving the bogies, etc. I haven't done anything else to the underframe as yet apart from fitting some Alan Gibson wheels and Comet buffers. It has Comet scissors gangways (should really be suspended). I had to form the sides and then fitted them to the remains of the body and fixed the roof in place. The Airfix roof ends and gutters were quite thick so I filed them flush and used some microstrip to give a finer look to these parts. I used some fine tape to make the roof ribs and added some MJT vents (not the right type, of course!). I added some wire pipes from the tank fillers. These are held in place by some rather large hand rail knobs. The interior is the Airfix composite one cut and shut to match the different window spacing. It sits a little too high inside but looks ok. Luckily I didn't have to fit any of those vents at the tops of the doors as the original didn't have them. I tried to match the colour to the Hornby coach maroon but it didn't quite work. The Hornby colour is quite dull so I started with a base coat of brown followed by some Humbrol 20. It still looked brighter so I applied more coats with brown mixed in and then gave up. Lining is Replica water slide and lettering pressfix. I tried some pressfix first class and no smoking signs inside the windows but they looked really gluey. I tried to remove the excess glue with decal fix and then alcohol but it wasn't a success. I may try and get some waterslide ones. Final finish was Ronseal satin varnish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by drgj

[TRAILRAGE]

Definitely one of the best  Al6 models I've seen. Very nice indeed

[drgj]

I bought this 25/3 conversion off eBay but it was in a state so I spent a bit of time working on it. Getting the front centre windows looking ok was a bit of a job as the previous owner hadn't bothered with the step in the frame. I opened out the side cab windows and moved the front of these back a bit so as to get more width on the yellow warning panel when it is viewed from the side. With the original Hornby model you can't really see it at all in the side view. I flush glazed the side windows in one piece and added a painted on vertical in the centre of each. I flush glazed all the windows ion the cab fronts too. The craftsman sides aren't that finely detailed but look ok. I filled in the holes in the doors that the underframe clips in to but left them open on the inside so the clips still work. i added various handrails and lamp irons, etc. The headcodes I set back a bit and flush glazed over them. By the way, 4K53 was a Bangor Crewe parcels train and 1K06  a North Wales to Stoke on Trent passenger.

 

The original chassis was quite bulky so I removed a lot of "weight" from the underframe and bogies and added the three cross members  underneath. I used the upper box in the centre of the underframe after cutting round it a bit and then made the shaped lower tank from plasticard. They are a simplified version of the prototype! Wheels and motor are originals and with a bit of extra weight the loco is surprisingly smooth and powerful. I fitted some smaller couplings. 

 

I finished the body with my Badger 200 airbrush and railmatch enamels plus pressfix running numbers, Fox headcode digits and a Replica Railways  pre tops data panel. The loco looks good in the flesh but photos can be cruel!

 

There are some pictures that show this loco next to a Bachmann example. I like the Bachmann one just about as much. A lot of comments have been made about the shape of the front windows on the Bachmann but when viewed from  a little above the difference is not noticeable. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by drgj

[Andrew F]

Your version looks much better to me. One of the main attractions is the flush glazing; very very neat. What did you use to fix the panes in?, there's no evidence of glue.

   You don't think there's a lot of difference in the front window roof curve but to me it stands out a mile; the Hornby 25 putting the other to shame.

I'd definately do something about the steam roller wheels though, even if the cheapest option is gutting a Bachy for the drive and wheels.

   Really nice work.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Waveydavey]

7660 looks like a very nice job there.

 

My own 25/3 uses the centre section of a Bachmann body including the cab doors with Silver Fox cab ends.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Downendian]

Lovely job on the Hornby conversion. The side profile with the Bachmann version really brings it home how wrong the Bachmann cabs are. How did you do the centre cab window framing?

Neil

[col_kilgore]

Can anybody tell me if the Hornby 25 is regarded to sit too high on its bogies  ? .

 

Its just that having recently got a Craftsman detailing kit it recommends lowering the ride height , anyone have any opinion before I get the big hammer and chisel out . 

[drgj]

Thanks very much for all the replies.

 

The flush glazing is cut from old clear packaging. It is pretty time consuming but if you don't do the cab side window thing you could use shawplan glazing for most of it and just cut out the centre windows. The bodyside windows just go behind the etches so look fine. When I got the loco it had what looked like South Eastern Finecast flush glazing for all the cab windows. I think they did it for the Silverfox version of the 25/3 (?). I have an old tin of Revell enamel varnish which is a non yellow looking type. I normally make the windows a light push fit. Once fitted into the apertures I  paint the varnish over the entire rear surface  along the joints. It is white spirit based but dries very quickly without any sign that it is there, a bit like the Johnson's stuff I have heard a lot about. On the odd window I have painted the entire outside of the pane and it is completely invisible when dry. I have done a lot of this flush glazing and am completely fed up with it so will try and use the Shawplan stuff in future! My trouble is that I like to do things as cheaply as possible because railway modelling can get really expensive if you add it all up.

 

I have a set of Ultrascale wheels on a Lima 47 which look good but slip a lot. I did add a bit more weight but maybe I should add some more. How much can you add before the motor burns out?  I elected to use the Hornby wheels just for the grip and I don't really notice them myself.

 

The Hornby 25 does sit too high but it depends how much you are worried about it . You lower it by cutting away the underframe sides where they rest on the bogies. Then you remove a little from the bogies where they slip behind the underframe sides. On this one I carved a lot away all along the sides of the underframe so as too avoid steps either side of the bogie supports and to make it look more prototypical. The Craftsman instructions for lowering do involve the steps but it doesn't really matter that much. I just thought I may as well go the whole hog.

 

The centre window frames were just done using a bit of plasticard strip. The top parts of theses windows are already there from the original so it is just  a case of  copying it round the whole frame once the aperture been opened out to to represent the 25/3 type. You have to add a bit of plasticard inside once  the nose doors of the original model have been filed away because this area becomes a bit thin.

Edited January 24, 2015 by drgj

[Andrew F]

  Thanks for the Revel varnish tip. It's obvious you're an old hand at the home cut glazing...no scummy white bits of plastic around the edge. I've used watered down R/C canopy glue to fix them; even fills in the odd gap and the excess can be rubbed off when dry but they've never quite been as neat as yours. Fed up? yes, me too and I've lost count how many carefully crafted panes have gone astray but as you know, you can really motor when you've got the hang of it.

   The last 26's and 33's I've used Shawplan Laserglaze but even this took a lot of time (about half the time of home cut) in fettling to get a perfect fit and if you've painted the loco there is the thickness of paint to consider.

  

    I used Ultrascales on a Lima 27 and weighted it to modern standards and it grips ok with no protest from the motor but I think those Lima motors were more robust than the Hornby Ringfield. If I'd done a fine job like that 25 I'd ditch the Ringer and have Bachmann power and wheels; that way you don't have to worry about making extra pick-ups, adding weight, replacing contaminated traction tyres or losing the plating off the pick-up wheels which happens eventually and then they run awful.

[drgj]

Thanks for that. I used to just make these things and then sell them and there are plenty I wish I'd kept. I keep all the ones I have worked on now. When the windows have been cut and filed to size there are some ragged white edges but these can be removed by rubbing a finger nail along them or carefully scraping with a scalpel blade held at 90 degrees.

 

That revel varnish is funny stuff and I don't know if you can still get it. I tried to airbrush with it once and it just turned to glue on the nozzle with no spray whatsoever. I thinned it like other varnish but maybe it needed more. Normally something will spray or it won't come out at all but this just dribbled out as gunge.

 

Dave

[drgj]

I can see that the Hornby class 25 front outer windows are too large for a class 24. Would reducing their vertical size by 1mm be about right or wouldn't that make enough difference to the "look" in 4mm scale? I have an old  25 body which I am converting as a cheap project.

Thanks

Dave

Edited May 14, 2015 by drgj

[russ p]

I spent last Saturday afternoon with a couple of mates one of which is a serious modeler. We measured a class 25 cab and one of the questions raised was 'are class 24 and 25/0 windscreens slightly smaller than standard 25 ones?"

We tried sizing pictures but didn't get a conclusion. When you look at a 24 they look smaller and you seem to get a better view when driving a 25/1 but is this an illusion partly created by the different desk?

[drgj]

When I have seen photos of Hornby 25 to 24 conversions and also the Silver Fox body (which looks to be based on the Hornby 25) the front windows look too big to me.  I will study a few more pics of the real thing.

 

Dave

[br-nse-fan]

When I have seen photos of Hornby 25 to 24 conversions and also the Silver Fox body (which looks to be based on the Hornby 25) the front windows look too big to me.  I will study a few more pics of the real thing.

 

Dave

 

This may seem like a silly question.. but surely there are technical drawings available for both locomotives showing the dimensions?

[drgj]

That is what I am hoping someone will have!

 

Dave

Edited May 14, 2015 by drgj

[johnd]

Have you seen the book " Diesels in Depth, classes 24/25 by David Clark" Isbn 0-7110-3171-1 plenty of info in pictures to help you.

 

I recommend the book anyway plus the book on the Enlglish Electric type 4 (proper name) class 40 for those who don't remember them in green.

 

To my eye they seem the same depth but then again I could be wrong !

 

Hope this is of help to you in your research.

Edited May 14, 2015 by johnd

[Scottish Modeller]

That is what I am hoping someone will have!

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

A Google search is all that is needed to find the drawings.....

 

http://s405.photobucket.com/user/dirty_numb_angel_boi/media/British%20Diesel%20And%20Electric%20Locomotive%20Drawings/BR_Class_25_zps2fcae5d1.jpg.html

 

Thanks

[drgj]

Thanks to all.