Dave's Workbench- Porthole Coach

[drgj]

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/nymr/DieselGala2011/P9160781.jpg

 

This pic, I think seems to show the different sizes of the outer windows. The 25 / 1 and 25/3 etc have the same size but the 24 ones definitely look smaller to me.

 

I think I may be entering the realms of servere pedantry and will forget this now!

Edited May 15, 2015 by drgj

[tamperman36]

It could be an optical illusion caused by the roof profile and lack of headcode box. Are the wipers the same size on both locos, if so then the windscreens are more or less the same size.

[SRman]

The 24 and 25/0 cab windscreens were shallower than later builds. It took me a while to work it out, but the handrails at the front were also around 1mm lower on the later builds, thus maintaining the same visual distance between the horizontal handrails and the lower edges of the windscreens.

When I did my conversion of Hornby 25 to class 24/0 many years ago, I used a little filler along the lower edges of the windscreens (not the central one, though), and drilled the new wire handrails approximately 1mm higher than the original moulded ones.

I used a lot of filler inside the cab roofs before filing them down to shape.

I don't have any pics to hand to show this, but will try to get a couple later, if anyone is interested.

Edited May 15, 2015 by SRman

[pete_mcfarlane]

Hi Dave,

 

A Google search is all that is needed to find the drawings.....

 

http://s405.photobucket.com/user/dirty_numb_angel_boi/media/British%20Diesel%20And%20Electric%20Locomotive%20Drawings/BR_Class_25_zps2fcae5d1.jpg.html

 

Thanks

It looks like somebody has scanned the Ian Beattie drawings in from old issues of the Railway Modeller (which is a bit naughty as they're still in copyright). These drawings aren't always the most accurate.

[drgj]

The 24 and 25/0 cab windscreens were shallower than later builds. It took me a while to work it out, but the handrails at the front were also around 1mm lower on the later builds, thus maintaining the same visual distance between the horizontal handrails and the lower edges of the windscreens.

 

When I did my conversion of Hornby 25 to clas 24/0 many years ago, I used a little filler along the lower edges of the windscreens (not the central one, though), and drilled the new wire handrails approximately 1mm higher than the original moulded ones.

 

I used a lot of filler inside the cab roofs before filing them down to shape.

 

I don't have any pics to hand to show this, but will try to get a couple later, if anyone is interested.

Would love to see some pics!

 

Dave

[Pandora]

The shallow class 24 windows has caught out a few people,  the deeper cab windows were provided on subsequent  builds to give the  driver a better view when buffering up etc

[SRman]

Please bear in mind I did this many years ago and some of my detailing is quite crude by current standards (in particular, the fuel and water tanks and the tail lights I simply painted on!). Here is the Hornby 25 converted into a reasonable facsimile of a class 24/0.






Looking at this now, I feel that the windscreens are still a little too deep and the handrails not moved up quite enough.

Edited May 15, 2015 by SRman

[47164]

Best keep the original Hornby size, then you can use southern fine cast flush glazing which really improves the face of the model.and looks okay. You can of course also use the craftsman kit for the roof profile.

[Waveydavey]

I spent last Saturday afternoon with a couple of mates one of which is a serious modeler.

 

I don't think I've ever been called a serious modeller before......

 

I've found out two things from measuring that 25 cab. Firstly I didn't take enough photos and measurements and secondly the windows on both the Bachmann and Hornby 25s are way undersized. I'm at work at the moment and don't have the exact numbers with me but they are about a millimetre out in both height and width with the small centre window height being the biggest offender.

 

It's your model so you are free to do what you think makes it look most like a 24 within the limits of your modelling skills but my advice would be to extend the centre window downwards and build the 'nose' up. If you want to go a bit more hardcore I can give you the dimensions of the 25/1 front windows and you can then take a rough guess at how much shorter the 24 windows are and resize your windows accordingly. Either way the last thing you should be doing is making the windows smaller.

 

Cheers

 

David

Edited May 16, 2015 by Waveydavey

[russ p]

You could post last Saturdays pictures off the front windows and see if anyone on here can do the same with 24 windows

[drgj]

Thanks again to all.  The centre window on the Hornby model does look a little small. The roof profile is certainly distinctive and I will be careful with this. This will be a slow  process as usual. My class 25 project took ages (see one of my other threads- "Detailed Hornby Class 25").

Edited May 16, 2015 by drgj

[Waveydavey]

Just having another look at this after seeing your 24 thread.

 

Opening up the cab side windows has really made a difference to the look of the loco. Having measured the windows on a 25/1 cab recently it's quite an eye opener as to how undersized the Hornby windows are.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Waveydavey]

You could post last Saturdays pictures off the front windows and see if anyone on here can do the same with 24 windows

The photos I took aren't really worth posting as they are mainly just the end of the measuring tape in the various window openings with your ugly mug in the background. I am quite happy to share the dimensions with anyone who is interested.

 

There are, I think, two 24s at Grosmont so I may have to arrange a trip down there with a measuring tape unless someone else has beaten me to it.

 

Cheers

 

David

[drgj]

I spent a lot of time on the windows. Increasing the thickness of the pillars between side windows and front of cab make a good difference, too.

Edited May 21, 2015 by drgj

[drgj]

Well I have made a start and had a go at the roof fronts. I used some p38 filler. 

 

This body is pretty bashed up and I like the idea of making something of it.

[Waveydavey]

The slope of the roof looks about right. I have a part done conversion that I started back in the 80s that used the cast white metal roof domes from the Craftsman conversion kit. They are very poor shape wise and need considerable filing to get them looking anywhere near right.

[drgj]

Here is a progress report on this class 24 project. The first picture shows the original Hornby front but with  the roof worked on. The second and third show the outer front windows made smaller but the middle one extended down, the latter as suggested byr Wavey Davey. I also raised the nose door area up a bit and smoothed it off to make a late class 24. I have made the tank filler cutouts and exhaust port from plasticard.. I added a buffer beam and made the valances from plasticard, also. This required extending the front down and tapering off at each side and tucking a straight piece in behind. Shaped the side pieces and the bits outside the buffers at the front. I then had to fill and smooth. Side cab windows are like my class 25 model in my other thread but will have the window that slides down instead of to the side. I am mounting it on a Bachmann class 25/3 chassis which will need some new tanks made.

 

Certainly looks different to the Hornby front. The original outer windows now look very big and the middle one very small. Still needs final shaping and smoothing of the window frames, etc, before painting.

Edited July 7, 2015 by drgj

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi DRGI,

 

Looks very good....

 

Have to remember this conversion was 'bread and meat' in the days before the Bachmann Class 24 appeared!

 

I lost count how many I did through the shop in the early 80's.

 

Keep on with the project - waiting to see the finished, painted and detailed end result.

 

Thanks

[SRman]

It is looking very good. I did the same thing with side windows on my earlier conversion. Even though DRGJ's shows up the shortcomings of mine quite badly, I still prefer the Hornby cab end to the Bachmann model, which always looks too flat and wide.

Maybe I'll redo mine one day, insired by the vastly improved appearance of DRGJ's effort.

Edited to fix up typos for DRGJ's name - twice!

Edited July 9, 2015 by SRman

[drgj]

Thanks for those replies. I have quite enjoyed working on this. As I said before the original body was in a real state so it isw good to make something of it. There was no Hornby chassis and the Bachmann 25/3 chassis I mentioned runs very well but has no steps and is also a bit bashed but a bit of work should get it looking ok.

 

SR man. The front outer windows were a bit of a fiddly job. First I had to file out the lower inner window frames. I then squared off the bottom of the apertures before building up with layers of plasticard so that the windows were smaller than I wanted. This was so I could file the centre down to the right size but have some material in the corners left to form the curves. Then I took a narrow piece of 20 thou plasticard and jammed it into place against the remaining upper part of the inner window frame. I ran some super glue behind it to hold it rather than liquid poly as the latter melts it too much. I used a little p38 filler on big gaps but the best filler   is grey primer sprayed into a container and brushed on where needed. If you leave it to thicken in the container it will fill various gaps. It dries quickly and you can build it up. Once fully dried overnight it is very easy to sand but sticks very well.

 

dave

[jonny777]

I hope that an end on comparison might be of some use -

 

This is Stoke On Trent 3rd May 1976

 

 

[Andrew F]

Very nice work Dave. The window dimensions look spot on now and it makes a heck of a difference. I did something similar a couple of years ago; shallowing the outer windows on the Hornby shell and then letting the centre window in from a Bachmann 24 so I can appreciate the hard and quality work you've done here.

[SRman]

Jonny, that photo shows perfectly what I said about the 24 (and 25/0) windscreens being shallower and the handrails underneath being that much higher up the front. The three locos are almost perfectly posed to allow the comparisons.

It also shows that drgj has done the right thing with building up the centre door 'hump'.

And one more thing it shows is that the original Hornby fronts and cab side windows are a little too square-cornered.

[drgj]

Here is my interim report. I have finished the body and painted it and also the modified 25/3 chassis is done. Here is a pic of the body so far. I have made it so it is a clip fit on the chassis. Have to glaze it now and then finish with a bit of weathering and tidying here and there.

[drgj]

Have managed to glaze it now using scrap clear plastic from packaging materials. What a horrible job that was. Will put it all together next and do a bit of very light weathering.

Edited October 13, 2015 by drgj