GWML Electification

[Budgie]

You may have a point, there. If the speakers are turned up loud I can't understand what is being said, because I hear the same thing from many speakers "at once". But the speed of sound is such that the sound from further speakers arrives later than the sound from nearer speakers, resulting in a dissonant mush of unintelligible sounds. With a lower volume, I won't hear the message from the further speakers, meaning that the message will be more intelligible.

[The Stationmaster]

Just floating a guess, regards the platform speakers.

 

Could it be to reduce the overall volume and noise nuisance to the neighbours?

More speakers, but broadcasting at a lower volume, to cover the platform length, meaning people close by would hear the announcements, but the sound won't be loud enough to travel far.

 

Just a complete guess, so I might be completely wrong.

 

 

Second wild guess.

The people of Burnham and Taplow are hard of hearing ?

 

 

 

.

I suspect it might be the former Ron but rather oddly unlike the speakers at Ally Pally which are clearly designed for relative close range listening those at Taplow and Burnham have a 'bell mouth' implying (to me at any rate) that they are meant to give out a higher volume - which leads me to your second possibility!

[WCML100]

Just to add to stuff happening east of reading, my local station west drayton is having major improvements with the bases or the new footbridges starting to appear as well as part of the new platform 5 track east of the station presumably where the platfrom will be extended to for the new crossrail 10 car trains

[Titan]

 

I also wonder about what will happen with the footbridge at Taplow - it is one of the oldest overbridges on the route and is a pleasant looking design dating from 1884 and probably installed at the time of quadrupling; clearly not to electrification clearances

 

The footbridge at Taplow won't be touched, it is a bit tight but does in fact have sufficient electrical clearance. Just needs the wire lowering a bit from normal to fit through.

[Reorte]

You may have a point, there. If the speakers are turned up loud I can't understand what is being said, because I hear the same thing from many speakers "at once". But the speed of sound is such that the sound from further speakers arrives later than the sound from nearer speakers, resulting in a dissonant mush of unintelligible sounds. With a lower volume, I won't hear the message from the further speakers, meaning that the message will be more intelligible.

Even with one speaker but loud you'll get lots of echos which can sometimes make it harder to understand, multiple ones makes it even worse, so a large number of quieter speakers sounds (no pun intended!) like a better method all round, other than for the presumably more expensive setup cost.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Reorte

[Metr0Land]

The footbridge at Taplow won't be touched, it is a bit tight but does in fact have sufficient electrical clearance. Just needs the wire lowering a bit from normal to fit through.

 

I can't believe it was as far back as June 2006 they did the work on it.  At the time, I asked the guy in charge if this wasn't a waste of time with electrication coming (at that stage Crossrail to Maidenhead).  He said the work had been signed off in the knowledge the wires would fit.

[kintbury jon]

Sorry if I've missed this in previous posts.

 

Reading the Newbury Weekly News it seems like electrification will cease at Newbury. There has been debate as to whether it would extend westwards to Bedwyn as the current services terminate there. Will be interesting to see what happens in terms of trains to Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn. I imagine that a shuttle service that connects with London services will suffice. It would be out 'in the sticks' compared to other diesel units locally. We will be stuffed if it breaks down!

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry if I've missed this in previous posts.

 

Reading the Newbury Weekly News it seems like electrification will cease at Newbury. There has been debate as to whether it would extend westwards to Bedwyn as the current services terminate there. Will be interesting to see what happens in terms of trains to Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn. I imagine that a shuttle service that connects with London services will suffice. It would be out 'in the sticks' compared to other diesel units locally. We will be stuffed if it breaks down!

Bedwyn only ever seems to have been mentioned as some sort of possible addition and never - AFAIK - as any sort of serious proposal.  There will of course be a retained dmu fleet at Reading in any event to cover a number of services although I doubt they'll carry a spare set during the day unless it can be taken out of the maintenance allocation.

[Edwin_m]

One solution might be to resource it from the Bristol allocation, running a Bristol-Newbury or two each morning which then spend the day shuttling back to Bedwyn or even Westbury. 

[HillsideDepot]

Bedwyn has always struck me as an odd one. Sure it is the place with the turn-back siding, yes it is the edge of the cheap Network SouthEast style fares, but it's the middle of nowhere! Undoubtedly it's busy and the overflow of the car parking provision causes lots of problems in Great Bedwyn, but is it not actually diluting the market at Pewsey? Yes there are also the intermediate stations, but compare station-less Wantage and Shrivenham on the mainline to Hungerford on the B&H. What is the historic reason for the London suburban network straggling out to Bedwyn?

 

The local campaign group seems to think that a battery EMU is the answer, and eventually it might be, but is there capacity in the fleet and how long before that in turn will be superseded a Newbury - Taunton - Exeter electrification?

 

I don't want to see anything cut, but it rather looks like Bedwyn is turning out to be the anomaly I've long see it to be.

[talisman56]

I've driven up in the London direction on a Sunday three times in the past month-and-a-bit and have noticed that nothing in terms of Electrification activity is apparent on the sections of line visible from the M4 west of Swindon (the bit of the South Wales direct line that comes in from the left and under the motorway just before Wootton Bassett and the section after the junction that is crossed just after J16). Surely if the scheme is due to be finished in 2016(?) something should be happening there by now?

[HillsideDepot]

There is a lot of bridge work going on west of Wootton Bassett. On the South Wales line Callow Hill bridge (the first one west of the M4) is closed at the moment and the bridge at School Lane in Brinkworth has recently been rebuild. I was out in the Badminton & Alderton area yesterday and all the bridges I saw had been rebuilt. On the Bath line Dauntsey bridge was done last year, as was one at Thingley. There is currently a bridge being rebuilt west of Thingley and the public footbridge at Chippenham Station is currently out and being rebuilt (more complicated this one as it will have lifts to the platform). 

 

Work is scheduled for "Skew Bridges" just west of Wootton Bassett Junction this summer, and NR will be building a temporary road over the fields along side the stone terminal to avoid traffic chaos (not helped by a planning restriction on the works at the former RAF Lyneham which specifies the route to be taken by HGVs), then the same temporary road will be used while the Marlborough Road bridge is rebuilt. Box Tunnel has a long closure this summer as does Sydney Gardens.

 

No masts yet, but lots of preparation. I understand the transfer of signalling from Swindon (SN) to Thames Valley has been delayed again, but lots of new signals are in evidence next to the current gantries.

[surfsup]

Bedwyn has always struck me as an odd one. Sure it is the place with the turn-back siding, yes it is the edge of the cheap Network SouthEast style fares, but it's the middle of nowhere! Undoubtedly it's busy and the overflow of the car parking provision causes lots of problems in Great Bedwyn, but is it not actually diluting the market at Pewsey? Yes there are also the intermediate stations, but compare station-less Wantage and Shrivenham on the mainline to Hungerford on the B&H. What is the historic reason for the London suburban network straggling out to Bedwyn?

 

The local campaign group seems to think that a battery EMU is the answer, and eventually it might be, but is there capacity in the fleet and how long before that in turn will be superseded a Newbury - Taunton - Exeter electrification?

 

I don't want to see anything cut, but it rather looks like Bedwyn is turning out to be the anomaly I've long see it to be.

Indeed, I too have pondered the options for the Bedwyn services. Cutting it back from what is currently a through service semi fast to Paddington and an all stops to Reading to just a Newbury to Bedwyn shuttle still strikes me as a odd one with little benefit to the Bedwyn Passengers - Even terminating it at Reading would make a little more sense and allow great connectivity, even if your running a turbo under the wires for the short distance. For the other end, I've always wondered whether it would be technically possible to extend the service out to Pewsey and reversing there, or even introducing a Westbury to Reading Shuttle or Paddington 'Turbo' service - taking some of the pressure off the HSTs and increasing connectivity a little more between Reading and Westbury.

 

If money was no object - and of course a good cost benefit ratio, I would even consider reinstating the branch to Marlborough again possibly even with a Paisley Canal style electrification set up on the branch itself. Although of course with a better frequency offered from nearby Swindon this idea would probably dead....I'll come off the medicine now!

[The Stationmaster]

I've driven up in the London direction on a Sunday three times in the past month-and-a-bit and have noticed that nothing in terms of Electrification activity is apparent on the sections of line visible from the M4 west of Swindon (the bit of the South Wales direct line that comes in from the left and under the motorway just before Wootton Bassett and the section after the junction that is crossed just after J16). Surely if the scheme is due to be finished in 2016(?) something should be happening there by now?

See some of my earlier posts in this thread - a large amount of work has already taken place on the Badminton line but it is mainly bridgeworks and signalling although I expect some mast bases will be in place by now.  In order to see what is going on really needs a train journey and a fairly considerable awareness of all the various elements involved prior to stringing up the  wires - this means bridgeworks, resignalling (if only control systems but still visible work as it requires new cable routes and location cupboards plus some new signals, probably some lineside jungle clearance, then the test digs for mast foundation tubes, then the tubes themselves then the steelwork.    The work content is truly massive - the signalling work alone is effectively doing what took 13-14 years last time round is about 3-4!

Bedwyn has always struck me as an odd one. Sure it is the place with the turn-back siding, yes it is the edge of the cheap Network SouthEast style fares, but it's the middle of nowhere! Undoubtedly it's busy and the overflow of the car parking provision causes lots of problems in Great Bedwyn, but is it not actually diluting the market at Pewsey? Yes there are also the intermediate stations, but compare station-less Wantage and Shrivenham on the mainline to Hungerford on the B&H. What is the historic reason for the London suburban network straggling out to Bedwyn?

 

The local campaign group seems to think that a battery EMU is the answer, and eventually it might be, but is there capacity in the fleet and how long before that in turn will be superseded a Newbury - Taunton - Exeter electrification?

 

I don't want to see anything cut, but it rather looks like Bedwyn is turning out to be the anomaly I've long see it to be.

 

Bedwyn I suspect is there because it's there - it was the only convenient station west of Hungerford, and short of Westbury, at which a train could be turned round and allowed an extra market to be served at minimum additional cost as the resources effectively cost no more than some fuel and accumulated mileage compared with Hungerford (which in any case didn't really have an ideal layout for terminating and reversing a train).  Because of the state of the roads it is hardly competing with Pewsey for much in the way of traffic.

 

Pewsey of course would be a very expensive place to reverse trains from the east - I suspect the additional mileage might break the resource bank let alone the cost of providing a suitable track layout now or in the past as the signalbox and sidings went a very long time ago, providing similar facilities to Bedwyn at Pewsey (excluding costs of land acquisition) would cost the best part of £1million, possibly even more if prices have continued to rise at earlier rates.

 

Serving Bedwyn in the future must be a difficult one.  I understand from Thames Trains/FGW Conductors that it was one of the best paying turns of all in terms of commission (when they received it) so clearly revenue can't be too bad but I doubt it would come anywhere near justifying electification.  I understand FGW have looked at the battery/electric idea for at least one London area route and have rejected it as impractical, I would think Bedwyn would be equally impractical due to the balance of electric/battery mileage even if trains were to run through to Reading.

[kintbury jon]

It's an interesting service.  The peak hour services are well filled.  During the day, there are around 5-10 people waiting at Kintbury for an eastbound train.  Probably no more than 20-30 people are already on it.  Changing at Newbury won't be a problem for me but I am aware that other members of the public see changing trains as a big issue though.  At least Newbury only has 3 platforms so it's nowhere near as manic as somewhere like Reading.

 

Interestingly, one of the fastest journeys to Padd from Kintbury is by changing at Newbury for an HST.

 

I've always felt that it is a shame that the services from Newbury to Westbury are not better connected.  At one point there were 5 daily 'slow' services to Taunton that connected Newbury, Hungerford and Pewsey with Westbury.  I assume it wasn't that successful as they no longer run.

 

A regular stopping service from Newbury to Westbury would be convenient as it would connect with the Southmapton/Weymouth and Bristol line.  

 

I did manage it back in 2010 when the slow services were running however the lack of regular services and cows on the line meant that we missed our connection!  See this post:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16318-a-day-trip-to-cardiff/

[Ron Ron Ron]

I'm not sure if this post should be in this thread (GWML Electrification), or under the Class 800/801 thread.

However, it's about OHLE and probably applicable to the GWML.

 

The Stanton Tunnel, on the Old Dalby test track, has been fitted out with a new design of conductor rail, as part of the Electrification and IEP test programmes.

The Class 800 based there, will be used to carry out high speed trials as part of NR's testing of this conductor rail system, with a view to it being installed in tunnels as part of the electrification programme.

 

wk_27490-sample_a.jpg

 

 

.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ron Ron Ron

[Joseph_Pestell]

I'm not sure if this post should be in this thread (GWML Electrification), or under the Class 800/801 thread.

However, it's about OHLE and probably applicable to the GWML.

 

The Stanton Tunnel, on the Old Dalby test track, has been fitted out with a new design of conductor rail, as part of the Electrification and IEP test programmes.

The Class 800 based there, will be used to carry out high speed trails as part of NR's testing of this conductor rail system, with a view to it being installed in tunnels as part of the electrification programme.

 

wk_27490-sample_a.jpg

 

 

.

Interesting. And certainly relevant to GWML as they will need this through the Severn Tunnel (and presumably Dawlish when electrification goes further west).

 

Are there other examples of overhead third rail on 25kV? I have only ever seen it on 1500V.

[jamie92208]

Interesting. And certainly relevant to GWML as they will need this through the Severn Tunnel (and presumably Dawlish when electrification goes further west).

 

Are there other examples of overhead third rail on 25kV? I have only ever seen it on 1500V.

I believe that the Trowse swing Bridge near Norwich has an overhead conductor rail at 25Kv.

 

Jamie

[Joseph_Pestell]

Bedwyn has always struck me as an odd one. Sure it is the place with the turn-back siding, yes it is the edge of the cheap Network SouthEast style fares, but it's the middle of nowhere! Undoubtedly it's busy and the overflow of the car parking provision causes lots of problems in Great Bedwyn, but is it not actually diluting the market at Pewsey? Yes there are also the intermediate stations, but compare station-less Wantage and Shrivenham on the mainline to Hungerford on the B&H. What is the historic reason for the London suburban network straggling out to Bedwyn?

 

The local campaign group seems to think that a battery EMU is the answer, and eventually it might be, but is there capacity in the fleet and how long before that in turn will be superseded a Newbury - Taunton - Exeter electrification?

 

I don't want to see anything cut, but it rather looks like Bedwyn is turning out to be the anomaly I've long see it to be.

 

I am sure that we must have mentioned the Bedwyn conundrum further back up the thread.

 

Yes, it is an anomaly caused by political boundaries. But the fact remains that three busy stations will lose out on through services post-electrification. It would surely make more sense to extend the wires to Westbury and improve the service frequency to Pewsey (also busy).

[Glorious NSE]

I am sure that we must have mentioned the Bedwyn conundrum further back up the thread.

 

Yes, it is an anomaly caused by political boundaries. But the fact remains that three busy stations will lose out on through services post-electrification. It would surely make more sense to extend the wires to Westbury and improve the service frequency to Pewsey (also busy).

 

Since previous discussion we've had the FGW franchise extension announcement with the news that there will be an hourly semi-fast Exeter-Paddington, it may be that those "orphaned" stops will get picked up by that new service?

[jonathan452]

Further to the previous reply from Jamie 25kv overhead conductor rail also exists between the former Kings Cross Thameslink and St.Pancras International Low Level stations.

[Fat Controller]

Interesting. And certainly relevant to GWML as they will need this through the Severn Tunnel (and presumably Dawlish when electrification goes further west).

 

Are there other examples of overhead third rail on 25kV? I have only ever seen it on 1500V.

Will it be needed in the Severn Tunnel? A comment in a recent Modern Railways article suggested that the clearances were sufficient for normal catenary?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Further to the previous reply from Jamie 25kv overhead conductor rail also exists between the former Kings Cross Thameslink and St.Pancras International Low Level stations.

 

I did not know that. Would explain why they have installed at Old Dalby for the 800/801 tests.

[phil-b259]

 

Bedwyn I suspect is there because it's there - it was the only convenient station west of Hungerford, and short of Westbury, at which a train could be turned round and allowed an extra market to be served at minimum additional cost as the resources effectively cost no more than some fuel and accumulated mileage compared with Hungerford (which in any case didn't really have an ideal layout for terminating and reversing a train). 

 

However looking at the position of the reversing siding at Bedwyn from the air, it looks suspiciously like something that was added later on purely to accommodate reversing trains -  i.e. the current siding it wasn't part of the goods yard and is separated from the station by around 100m plus a road bridge only built for double track. Under such circumstances then it follows that a reversing siding could have been constructed at Pewesy instead should BR have decided to do so. Thus arguments that Bedwyn was the only place BR could have decided to terminate stopping trains look suspiciously hollow. Furthermore when looked at from the air it looks like wouldn't have been that difficult add a east facing bay platform at Hungerford. Ultimately I suspect that it all came down to cost and sticking in a reversing siding just beyond Bedwyn was cheaper than the alternatives of a bay + signalling at Hungerford or widening the existing cutting west of Pewesy to create a Bedwyn style setup. Of course if Pewsey had been chosen then we might have possibly seen Savenake station remain open too.

 

Of course it is quite obvious why for the past 40 years or so there has been no alternative to Bedwyn as to do anything else requires significant expenditure on a new turnback installation. Even continuing the service on to Westbury is something that is difficult to do with the lack of passing places and lots of heavy stone trains / fast HST services to fit round.

Edited April 9, 2015 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

Will it be needed in the Severn Tunnel? A comment in a recent Modern Railways article suggested that the clearances were sufficient for normal catenary?

 

Its not just about clearances! - The Severn tunnel is VERY wet inside, rails corrode faster than any other tunnel thanks to the damp conditions, and therefore it is easy to see that having a robust solid conductor might well be better than a length of wire to provide power to the trains.