GWML Electification

[RJS1977]

Looks like the project may have taken a big step backwards:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-35321340

[surfsup]

And let the silliness continue. So what happens now, will NR unfortunately have it's hand forced to give in and replace the OHLE in the Goring area just for aesthetic purposes, potentially delaying the project even further? Does NR have it's hand forced to pay out 'compensation' to the residents who claim that it's having an affect on their property prices? Or does NR carry on and attempt to make the Bristol deadline? Given the lack of work between Maidenhead and Sonning, I rather hope for the latter frankly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-35321340

 

Network Rail apologises for Goring Gap gantries

 

 

Network Rail has apologised for building large new gantries in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty without consulting nearby residents.

 

Installed near Goring Gap in the Chilterns, they are the latest step in the electrification of the Great Western Railway.

 

Residents have criticised the gantries for ruining the landscape.

 

The rail operator met with villagers on Thursday and promised a consultation on alternative designs.

 

'Absolutely horrible'

 

The company is undertaking a 10-year modernisation programme on the line at a cost of up to £1.74bn.

 

This includes upgrades along the section between Reading and Didcot, Oxfordshire.

 

Goring resident Roy McMillan said: "There was no foreknowledge of the actual design Network Rail has used... it is heavily, heavily over-engineered."

 

Roy McMillan, chair of South Stoke Parish Council, said there was an "absolute forest" of the new gantries "stretching over in the distance towards Didcot".

 

He added: "They're absolutely horrible... people see them the whole time, every day of their life".

 

But Lucy Murfitt, from the Chiltern Conservation Board, said the meeting at the village hall had been positive.

 

She added: "They've now conceded there's a problem and they're going to look at redesigning and removing them which is fantastic, and they're going to involve us in it and consult the public."

 

But she said campaigners needed to keep the pressure up because of "significant caveats".

 

Network Rail said developing new designs was a "complex process" that involved "balancing the need for the designs to be less visually intrusive with requirements around safety, reliability and operational efficiency".

 

It added: "We apologise to residents for not carrying out the public consultation before the installation of the existing overhead line equipment.

 

"Going forward we are committed to working with them and other stakeholders on alternative designs."

[Peter Kazmierczak]

This goes from bad to worse.....

Be interesting to read a book about the project in 15 years time..........

 

Wonder what the locals will say when they realise that a lot of the passing trains (Cross-Country and freight) will STILL be diesel-hauled, despite all the OHLE?

Edited January 15, 2016 by Peter Kazmierczak

[HillsideDepot]

This goes from bad to worse.....

 

Be interesting to read a book about the project in 15 years time..........

 

Will it be finished by then? The electrification, not the book!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

One has to be positive Adrian.

[The Stationmaster]

And let the silliness continue. So what happens now, will NR unfortunately have it's hand forced to give in and replace the OHLE in the Goring area just for aesthetic purposes, potentially delaying the project even further? Does NR have it's hand forced to pay out 'compensation' to the residents who claim that it's having an affect on their property prices? Or does NR carry on and attempt to make the Bristol deadline? Given the lack of work between Maidenhead and Sonning, I rather hope for the latter frankly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-35321340

 

Network Rail apologises for Goring Gap gantries

 

 

Network Rail has apologised for building large new gantries in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty without consulting nearby residents.

 

Installed near Goring Gap in the Chilterns, they are the latest step in the electrification of the Great Western Railway.

 

Residents have criticised the gantries for ruining the landscape.

 

The rail operator met with villagers on Thursday and promised a consultation on alternative designs.

 

'Absolutely horrible'

 

The company is undertaking a 10-year modernisation programme on the line at a cost of up to £1.74bn.

 

This includes upgrades along the section between Reading and Didcot, Oxfordshire.

 

Goring resident Roy McMillan said: "There was no foreknowledge of the actual design Network Rail has used... it is heavily, heavily over-engineered."

 

Roy McMillan, chair of South Stoke Parish Council, said there was an "absolute forest" of the new gantries "stretching over in the distance towards Didcot".

 

He added: "They're absolutely horrible... people see them the whole time, every day of their life".

 

But Lucy Murfitt, from the Chiltern Conservation Board, said the meeting at the village hall had been positive.

 

She added: "They've now conceded there's a problem and they're going to look at redesigning and removing them which is fantastic, and they're going to involve us in it and consult the public."

 

But she said campaigners needed to keep the pressure up because of "significant caveats".

 

Network Rail said developing new designs was a "complex process" that involved "balancing the need for the designs to be less visually intrusive with requirements around safety, reliability and operational efficiency".

 

It added: "We apologise to residents for not carrying out the public consultation before the installation of the existing overhead line equipment.

 

"Going forward we are committed to working with them and other stakeholders on alternative designs."

This is all a load of nonsense, utter cobblers.  The hood residents of the Goring Gap (yes, there are some) could have found teh design of this kit on the internet two years ago if they'd bothered to actually look to se what was coming their way.  But they couldn't be bothered so a handful of them have created a stink - first they tried the MP but as there was nothing in it for him he has presumably ignored them but will claim the credit if anything changes (that's his usual way).  The structures of course look very different if seen from the side instead of off a bridge as in the BBC pc - and most people will see them from the side in which case they are far less obtrusive.  Several moths ago they were complaining about the height of the mast - they're now seemingly ignoring that and they've already asked for headspans instead of steelwork -  presumably so they can watch wires come down and complain about train delays when the wind gets up?  (and it gets quite windy in that area as it happens)

 

A new design of double track boom is already installed near Goring station and there are other examples of that design east of Taplow - it is less noticeable but it's still metalwork.  If NR back track now that most of the structures are in place they should have the costs deducted from their pay and bonuses for mismanagement or giving in too easily.  On the other hand they might of course welcome any excuse to explain their delays?  I accept they might be between a rock and a  hard place but that's life in the railway industry and if they give in there they might as well tear the lot down and tell FGW to odrder a fleet of new HSTs which at least might be able to maintain the current timetanble without thumping great diesel noises under every vehicle.

[APOLLO]

When it's finished I hope they have some electricity available to run the trains !!!

 

2017 (with a bit of luck) - "A network rail manager said the continuation of diesel trains was due to the closure of Didcot power station in 2013 causing power un-availiability, thus another £1.25 Billion has to be spent upgrading the National Grid"

 

This Great Western electrification looks to be a farce.

 

The Liverpool - Manchester & Wigan lines was done quickly and well - though a little late. My son uses the Wigan - Liverpool service daily - very few problems. Manchester to Preston etc seems also to be going well though again a bit late. So it CAN be done properly.

 

As to village hall meetings and ugly masts - well my answer is unprintable.

 

Brit15

[black and decker boy]

This Great Western electrification looks to be a farce.

 

The Liverpool - Manchester & Wigan lines was done quickly and well - though a little late. My son uses the Wigan - Liverpool service daily - very few problems. Manchester to Preston etc seems also to be going well though again a bit late. So it CAN be done properly.

Brit15

Sadly the Liverpool and Manchester wiring was also regarded as something of a farce with the contractor making the same mistakes (and delays) on phase 2 as they did on phase 1. The contractor then resigned from all future phases and dumped them in the bin.

[olivegreen]

I love this thread - it makes a fascinating and informative read.  

 

Besides that, there is enough material in the story for a long-ish running TV series!

[APOLLO]

Agree things went wrong a bit, but you would have thought "lessons" would have been learned and applied to further projects. The "NEW" trains & service we have up here are great.

 

I hope the GW plan eventually "works", and the Midland / Trans Pennine also get the go-ahead soon.

 

Brit15

[D1059]

Unbelievable

 

The BBC South Today Facebook page has a video on it about the gantries around Goring. Not only have NR now apologised for the ugly gantries, they are going to redesign and replace them later on during the GWML project

 

And how much extra will that cost us taxpayers ? If they want to make them more unobtrusive, just paint them green. It worked for the comms mast up at Ais Gill

[RJS1977]

 

And how much extra will that cost us taxpayers ? If they want to make them more unobtrusive, just paint them green. It worked for the comms mast up at Ais Gill

 

And prior to that,it was also used on the fixed distant at Monkton Combe...

[Vanders]

 

 

Goring resident Roy McMillan said: "There was no foreknowledge of the actual design Network Rail has used... it is heavily, heavily over-engineered."

That's odd; I can't find any structural engineers listed under the name Roy McMillan. Surely some mistake?

[olivegreen]

And the worst is that the press print/broadcast such tripe!

[jonny777]

Why not paint the gantries dirty grey? It would match the most regular skies in that area.

[The Stationmaster]

Why not paint the gantries dirty grey? It would match the most regular skies in that area.

I'm quite sure the gantries etc will attain that colour without any need for expensive paint jobs that forever have to be repeated.  Some of them around Reading area already looking a bit less shiny than the did when new 3years ago and no doubt they will all eventually go the same way as galvanised structures everywhere and start to look almost as tatty as some of the ticky tacky houses which be found in the Goring Gap or sprouting in massive numbers around Didcot.

[jjb1970]

People always seem to whinge at new transport infrastructure and such like, ignoring the fact that many of the UK's national treasures (such as the Forth rail bridge, Ribblehead Viaduct and most of Brunel's monuments) would be decried as blots on the landscape if built today. A few years ago there were all sorts of campaigns against HS1 in Kent and now few seem to notice it, it just seems to be a very British thing to whinge about projects like this.

[corneliuslundie]

I am not clear about the basis on which the residents are complaining.

 

If there is a statutory requirement for Network Rail to obtain planning permission for works in an AONB, and it did not do so, then the local authority should be taking NR to court and can presumably order that the work be stopped. If there is no statutory requirement for NR to obtain permission it does not need to apologise to anyone. It seems very unlikely to me that there is a statutory requirement to consult unless that consultation leads to the giving of permission; otherwise it is just a waste of time.

 

If NR should have obtained the permission of the local authority and did not, heads should roll. If it did not need to, then it should simply tell the locals it is job done. No question of a redesign, at public expense.

 

Jonathan

[jonny777]

I'm quite sure the gantries etc will attain that colour without any need for expensive paint jobs that forever have to be repeated.  Some of them around Reading area already looking a bit less shiny than the did when new 3years ago and no doubt they will all eventually go the same way as galvanised structures everywhere and start to look almost as tatty as some of the ticky tacky houses which be found in the Goring Gap or sprouting in massive numbers around Didcot.

 

My comment was meant as a joke.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Somehow I can't quite see the GWML OHLE ever meriting "national treasure" status. And as for most of the rebuilt bridges, least said the better.

 

I don't know how the consultation process with interested parties was arranged (can't force myself to say "stakeholders"....), but the overall quality of the design work of the visual aspects of this project seems to me (as just an ordinary Joe) to be particularly poor,

 

The WCML 1960s electrification had a modern, clean look to all its infrastructure - OHLE, signalling, bridges and buildings. The was a sense of  "wholeness" and a "unity" to the whole project. Don't get that feel with this scheme.

 

I don't like being so negative, but sometimes I could weep. 

[The Bigbee Line]

I'm not a regular reader of this thread, but the NIMBY stance on the OHLE structures at a certain location seems to me like a re-run of the Royal Border Bridge episode when the ECML was juiced.........  

[locoholic]

This is all a load of nonsense, utter cobblers.  The hood residents of the Goring Gap (yes, there are some) could have found teh design of this kit on the internet two years ago if they'd bothered to actually look to se what was coming their way.

 

You're quoting almost verbatim from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy! I had never thought of Network Rail as a kind of Vogon Constructor Fleet, but now you've mentioned it...

 

The modern railway is unrelentingly ugly (like the Vogons), except where certain cherished "Heritage" locations are treated with kid gloves. If NR has to dismantle the structures at Goring, the extra cost should come from the director's bonusses. The ECML OHLE looks very attractive by comparison.

[RJS1977]

Wanted - one experienced engineer to design electrification gantries for the Great Western Main Line. Route knowledge desireable. Stovepipe hat essential.

[Mike Storey]

I am not clear about the basis on which the residents are complaining.

 

If there is a statutory requirement for Network Rail to obtain planning permission for works in an AONB, and it did not do so, then the local authority should be taking NR to court and can presumably order that the work be stopped. If there is no statutory requirement for NR to obtain permission it does not need to apologise to anyone. It seems very unlikely to me that there is a statutory requirement to consult unless that consultation leads to the giving of permission; otherwise it is just a waste of time.

 

If NR should have obtained the permission of the local authority and did not, heads should roll. If it did not need to, then it should simply tell the locals it is job done. No question of a redesign, at public expense.

 

Jonathan

 

This may help:

 

Extract from consultation on Permitted Development Rights in 2003. This was specific about telecoms masts but the points general are relevant. Note the fact stated in bold:

 

However, given the extent of the national rail network, it is considered that there is potential for significant visual impact, particularly on sensitive landscape areas such as Conservation Areas, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and National Parks.

While this appears to be a very limited problem at present, with only one local authority reporting a problem, it is likely to become more important as Network Rail plans to install 2,000 masts in 2003/2004. The authority reporting an impact, South Shropshire District Council, was concerned about the visual impact, without scope for control, of a proposed 30m high mast close to the historic town centre and Conservation Area of Ludlow. An Article 4 direction was confirmed to remove Part 17 A permitted development rights from the most sensitive parts of operational railway land in the town and Network Rail found an alternative location. Clearly, in this case, the local authority was able to use the current GPDO controls to influence the location of the mast, although the Article 4 direction route was seen as a 'last resort' by the authority and involved significant time and costs. Its use was only possible as the undertaker notified the local authority of the proposal, although it was not required to do so.

 

However, the game changed a bit in April 2015, by the Town & Country Planning Order (General Permitted Development) (England):

 

Class A – railway or light railway undertakings

Permitted development

 

A. Development by railway undertakers on their operational land, required in connection with

the movement of traffic by rail.

 

Development not permitted

A.1 Development is not permitted by Class A if it consists of or includes—

(a) the construction of a railway;

( B) the construction or erection of a hotel, railway station or bridge; or

© the construction or erection otherwise than wholly within a railway station of—

(i) an office, residential or educational building, or a building used for an industrial

process, or

(ii) a car park, shop, restaurant, garage, petrol filling station or other building or structure

provided under transport legislation.

 

Interpretation of Class A

A.2 For the purposes of Class A, references to the construction or erection of any building or

structure include references to the reconstruction or alteration of a building or structure where its

design or external appearance would be materially affected. 

 

I would guess c(ii) would be the basis on which any protestor's brief would challenge NR, by definition of structure not at a railway station. NR will have designed the OLE masts and gantries several years ago, based on prior legislation. NR's specialist team in planning issues will be aware and may be advising caution, based on whether structures designed prior to the change in law, are exempt.

 

I know we must not be political, but let's just say this was the government that was going to simplify planning matters and remove hindrances to development. I was never in favour of that, knowing what the ugly results could be, but they seem to have gone backwards in their ambitions. Bizarre. and look who is, once again, caught between a hard thing and a very hard thing.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Mike Storey

[Peter Kazmierczak]

There must be a balance between form and function.

 

The problems with the (under-engineered) ECML OHLE have been well-documented, but have things swung too much the other way? 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Peter Kazmierczak