DCC Controller Advice

[nhdesigns]

In my last post to this forum I stated that I had got two of ESU accessory decoders, along with the old Hornby DCC accessory and points decoder, with one ESU/Dynamis accessory decoder plugged in and wired with my Hornby one as well. Having taking in the advice and instructions for both the decoders on the elite I figured that I should have programmed them one at a time by disconnecting certain parts of the DCC power bus to prevent both decoders being registered as on whole unit. Earlier today I did get some sort of response from the Hornby accessory decoder when registering it I did hear a click, that's news to me, but when it came to putting the bus wires back together and powering up the Elite controller nothing happens! And if that doesn't tickle your ribs then this will, when I pushed the button to go back to normal train running that was it!

 

The whole controller Hornby Elite passed away. Having looked here for help and contacting Hornby as well, I tried to "resuscitate" it by plugging it in and holding down the STOP button for 15 seconds but to no result and the same with doing it like it says in the manual of holding down the menu button for 15 seconds. So that's gone for good now no welcome screen, lights flashing or anything.

 

Of course the only other DCC controller I have is a Bachmann Dynamis from 2008, when it first came out, but I did have trouble with it and went back to using the Hornby Select until getting the Elite back in 2011. Even though I could try it out the only problem is the fact I have the power supply, the base and controller but no connections for the base unit to the track or the DCC bus.

 

Knowing that it's a bit of a trouble maker and without my Elite I have come to the decision and buy a new DCC controller system. I did spend £100 or more on both the Dynamis and Elite and the price range I can go for is up to £200.

 

What I really need is a DCC controller but I don't think the basic starters might be good for my layout that is a 10ft by 5ft OO Gauge, consisting of 2 separate loops with 3 storage loops with all tracks connected to one DCC power bus. In regards to operation I tend to operate between two to four locomotives at any one time, so I don't think the Gaugemaster Prodigy Express would be suitable for my layout.

 

 

Does anybody have some advice or suggestions on which type of DCC Control System I should use I don't care if I have to spend a lot of money but with Christmas coming up I need something that will control my trains and my surprise locomotive I'm getting for Christmas.

[Crosland]

One factor is what suits you personally. In your position I would find a retailer, or friends, who can demonstrate, and let you play with, more than one system. For example, do you prefer buttons or knobs for the speed control.

 

Andrew

[traction]

First thing send the Elite back to Hornby as they are very good and should be able to repair it for you, possibly FOC.

May take a while over Christmas, but once it's back you can at least sell it if required as a working unit!

 

Secondly don't rush out to buy a controller, as Andrew has said you need to try and get to a shop or exhibition to try lots of them to see which one YOU feel comfortable with.

I've deliberately not said any specific make as there are loads of threads on here about that and everybody always recommends the one they use, which is OK for them but may not be for you.

The only thing it's good for is giving information on if it's reliable thats about it really.

 

A basic Bachmann EZ-Command or Hornby Select will run your layout(might need to remove a loco as both are only 1amp, if you get a Select you can plug your Elite power supply in so 3amps!) OK the Bachmann won't control the points but you've not had that anyway.

Try getting hold of one of those, should be cheap enough second hand, it will tide you over and you can run your mystery loco without the need for panicking and rushing into buying a new system that may not be right.

If you get really stuck I can lend you a Hornby Select, or an Bachmann EZ-Command so that you can run something over Christmas.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[corax67]

Like Ian I am loathe to recommend a particular system - I own Lenz, Dynamis,Roco and Massoth as well as having access to various other systems including ECoS, Gaugemaster & ZTC.

 

All have their positives and negatives but the one I use as my daily workhorse was decided upon after visiting many shows and polite interrogation of exhibitors to gain a bit of hands on trial.

 

If you really don't get on with the Dynamis then you should eBay it as they command excellent second hand prices and a budget of £300 compared to £200 will allow a greater choice of higher end systems.

[nhdesigns]

First thing send the Elite back to Hornby as they are very good and should be able to repair it for you, possibly FOC.

May take a while over Christmas, but once it's back you can at least sell it if required as a working unit!

 

Secondly don't rush out to buy a controller, as Andrew has said you need to try and get to a shop or exhibition to try lots of them to see which one YOU feel comfortable with.

I've deliberately not said any specific make as there are loads of threads on here about that and everybody always recommends the one they use, which is OK for them but may not be for you.

The only thing it's good for is giving information on if it's reliable thats about it really.

 

A basic Bachmann EZ-Command or Hornby Select will run your layout(might need to remove a loco as both are only 1amp, if you get a Select you can plug your Elite power supply in so 3amps!) OK the Bachmann won't control the points but you've not had that anyway.

Try getting hold of one of those, should be cheap enough second hand, it will tide you over and you can run your mystery loco without the need for panicking and rushing into buying a new system that may not be right.

If you get really stuck I can lend you a Hornby Select, or an Bachmann EZ-Command so that you can run something over Christmas.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

 

Why thanks for the helpful offer. I have purchased a 3.5mm jack that connects to Dynamis which I tapped two wires onto from my DCC bus but I've not had much luck with that solution. In all honesty I don't think much of Hornby, at the moment, having read a number of posts on here and on the Hornby forums saying that the elite might be okay in some respects, although quite a few posts stated that it does have problems when upgrading the firmware most of the time and using it with the railmaster. I only got one for use in future with the railmaster software which I admit does look impressive except it can only operate on Microsoft Windows and not Mac OS that's much better. Still I suppose I could look at getting the track connector and lead that goes with it from Kernow Model Rail over the weekend and just hope for the best.

[corax67]

I may have commented on Hornby DCC products once or twice over the years and sadly in less than flattering tones as the ideas are great but the performance much less so.

 

If you want a reliable and robust system you could have a look at which manufacturers had systems out 10 years ago and still do as poor performance tends to weed out the weak.

 

Show layouts broadly fall into Lenz, Gaugemaster, ECoS with occasionally Roco and Digitrax putting in an appearance - if a system can run a show for a weekend then for home use it should barely break a sweat.

[traction]

I have the Hornby Elite and have never had a problem updating it or using it with RailMaster.

I plug into it two Selects to use as walkabout units which I've been using at exhibitions for children to play with, all connected to RailMaster!

 

I have addressed all of the locos as double digit so any controller can be used.

 

I can control the points using the mimic panel (the silver box) with push buttons, or any of the controllers or the Touchscreen monitor running RailMaster.

(I've addressed all of the points so the same address can be used from the Selects or the Elite, the accessory decoder is a Team Digital SMD82 which allows push buttons to be connected for point activation)

 

Never had a problem.....(touch wood) with any of my set up and thats with all the children using it over the weekend.

 

 

 

I have the NCE PowerCab, the Bachmann EZ-Command and the wireless Gaugemaster Prodigy Advanced Squared, which I can use as I did have some simple shunting planks.

Horses for courses really and sometimes a different controller is more suited to a certain type of layout.

I have found one thing though, I much prefer separate buttons for point control on a mimic panel, as they are much easier to follow and operate than using function buttons on any of my controllers!

 

Hence why it's better to take your time and try systems out before jumping in.

Cheers

 

Ian

 

PS as a bit of information, I have installed virtual box in Linux and installed Windows XP inside virtual box, purely to run RailMaster......it even worked!!!

In the photo I now just use a dedicated netbook running XP with RailMaster on, works fine.

[nhdesigns]

I have the Hornby Elite and have never had a problem updating it or using it with RailMaster.

I plug into it two Selects to use as walkabout units which I've been using at exhibitions for children to play with, all connected to RailMaster!

 

I have addressed all of the locos as double digit so any controller can be used.

 

I can control the points using the mimic panel (the silver box) with push buttons, or any of the controllers or the Touchscreen monitor running RailMaster.

(I've addressed all of the points so the same address can be used from the Selects or the Elite, the accessory decoder is a Team Digital SMD82 which allows push buttons to be connected for point activation)

 

Never had a problem.....(touch wood) with any of my set up and thats with all the children using it over the weekend.

 

Thomas In N-gauge.JPG

 

 

I have the NCE PowerCab, the Bachmann EZ-Command and the wireless Gaugemaster Prodigy Advanced Squared, which I can use as I did have some simple shunting planks.

Horses for courses really and sometimes a different controller is more suited to a certain type of layout.

I have found one thing though, I much prefer separate buttons for point control on a mimic panel, as they are much easier to follow and operate than using function buttons on any of my controllers!

 

Hence why it's better to take your time and try systems out before jumping in.

Cheers

 

Ian

 

PS as a bit of information, I have installed virtual box in Linux and installed Windows XP inside virtual box, purely to run RailMaster......it even worked!!!

In the photo I now just use a dedicated netbook running XP with RailMaster on, works fine.

 

Well that's good to hear. I do think that gaugemaster might be a better choice for me. It's just that I've lost all interest in Hornby for DCC altogether now. Although it's simple to set up I just don't feel there are as good. I even had the select before getting the Dynamis and Elite that started to fail when the power input wouldn't stay on most of the time. That's just me though.

[leopardml2341]

I echo the 'try before you buy' phiosophy.

I found out the hard way that the NCE Powercab I'd bought wouldn't satisfy my longer term requirements and changed to Digitrax soon after.

 

Luckily I was able to sell the Powercab at not a lot less than I'd paid for it.

[nhdesigns]

I may have commented on Hornby DCC products once or twice over the years and sadly in less than flattering tones as the ideas are great but the performance much less so.

 

If you want a reliable and robust system you could have a look at which manufacturers had systems out 10 years ago and still do as poor performance tends to weed out the weak.

 

Show layouts broadly fall into Lenz, Gaugemaster, ECoS with occasionally Roco and Digitrax putting in an appearance - if a system can run a show for a weekend then for home use it should barely break a sweat.

 

I have been looking into the gaugemaster system and seeing as how good they are with analogue control, I don't see why they should fail to deliver when it comes to DCC. I do know that the basic one is up to £100 or more which I might get if I can't get my dynamis to work, and even that's having some trouble. So if the basic gaugemaster works as well as people say then I will get it and possibly upgrade to more advanced control later on. As for Hornby I do admire the work they do in regards to models but I've lost all faith with them when it comes down to DCC control. Even looking at the railmaster software and how it works does seem to look rather complicated when setting up a layout plan to run from, as well as the fact they list mostly there own models and not as much from others.

[Nigelcliffe]

Observations on Gaugemaster DCC - they do NOT design any of their DCC equipment.  Their DCC controllers are made by Model Rectifier Corporation in the US.   And, MRC are the only manufacturer of DCC equipment who refuse to allow third-party computer software to interwork with their hardware. So, should you ever wish to use a computer to assist with operating or setting up decoders, you have no choice of software unless you buy more hardware from another manufacturer.

 

Gaugemaster do offer decent support of the devices they sell, so if you break it, they will usually fix it quickly and without hassle.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

I have been looking into the gaugemaster system and seeing as how good they are with analogue control, I don't see why they should fail to deliver when it comes to DCC.

 

There is a difference between their DC controllers and their DCC systems in so far as they don't make the DCC systems.

Gaugemaster's DCC systems are bought-in and re-badged MRC systems, from the USA.

The only thing Gaugemaster about them is the re-liveried covers and the packaging.

That's not to say they aren't any good though; take a look.

 

[edit] Nigel and I must have posted at the same time.....

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just a note on the Gaugemaster / MRC Prodigy series.

 

The basic starter Prodigy Express system, has now been upgraded by MRC to the Prodigy Express² (Squared). 

Gaugemaster are still selling their re-branded old model and do not have the Squared version on their books yet.

 

.

[Phil S]

A 10ft x 5ft layout  is hardly 'very large' in terms of dcc requirements;  its not actually  'physical size' so much as how many locos may be parked on it giving forth sound, and how many coaches have lighting  - both being numbers which may increase dramatically with next year's releases!!! - but with modern locos only taking 0.25-0.5A eachs  a  Bachmann DCC EZ controller would serve as an interim until the Elite is fixed!, and a Dynamis more so!   So don't panic buy.

If point motor power is from an independant bus (because its 'conventional, direct 1:1 wiring, or the type of DCC decoder used) then even  Peco point  motors won't impose a noticable load.

[nhdesigns]

Observations on Gaugemaster DCC - they do NOT design any of their DCC equipment.  Their DCC controllers are made by Model Rectifier Corporation in the US.   And, MRC are the only manufacturer of DCC equipment who refuse to allow third-party computer software to interwork with their hardware. So, should you ever wish to use a computer to assist with operating or setting up decoders, you have no choice of software unless you buy more hardware from another manufacturer.

 

Gaugemaster do offer decent support of the devices they sell, so if you break it, they will usually fix it quickly and without hassle.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

Well that does sound good to me. Although having looked at the gaugemaster DCC starter, it does seem a little bit basic with the fact it has not got the ability to operate points and accessories.

[nhdesigns]

Just a note on the Gaugemaster / MRC Prodigy series.

 

The basic starter Prodigy Express system, has now been upgraded by MRC to the Prodigy Express² (Squared). 

Gaugemaster are still selling their re-branded old model and do not have the Squared version on their books yet.

 

.

 

Oh right I see.

[traction]

This is why none of us have directly said a specific make.

It opens up a can of worms.

 

So much choice it's hard to know where to start.

You can download many of the manuals for the different systems, which could be a good thing to do and have a read through.

If you can't understand some of the manuals, that may give you an indication to how easy/hard it will be to use the controller.

 

OK it's difficult when you don't have the controller in front of you, but some manuals you just can't follow no matter what!

 

As we've all said, don't rush in and try and get hands on with as many as possible, it really will pay in the end.

 

Have fun looking and trying!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[nhdesigns]

A 10ft x 5ft layout  is hardly 'very large' in terms of dcc requirements;  its not actually  'physical size' so much as how many locos may be parked on it giving forth sound, and how many coaches have lighting  - both being numbers which may increase dramatically with next year's releases!!! - but with modern locos only taking 0.25-0.5A eachs  a  Bachmann DCC EZ controller would serve as an interim until the Elite is fixed!, and a Dynamis more so!   So don't panic buy.

If point motor power is from an independant bus (because its 'conventional, direct 1:1 wiring, or the type of DCC decoder used) then even  Peco point  motors won't impose a noticable load.

 

Oh right. I just know I when looking into the instructions for both Bachmann and Hornby accessory decoders they state that they should be wired to the main power feed. That does sound like a relief to hear that I might not need big and expensive or even a too complicated DCC system. I do think I might go back to having a Hornby Select controller to operate my layout until I can get my elite repaired. Of course the other option I have is to replace the unit altogether by buying one from Kernow Models who have a special offer on for the Hornby Elite and the Hornby Railmaster together for £169. I don't need to worry about ordering or delivery because I live in Conrwall and I can just go down and get one.

[nhdesigns]

This is why none of us have directly said a specific make.

It opens up a can of worms.

 

So much choice it's hard to know where to start.

You can download many of the manuals for the different systems, which could be a good thing to do and have a read through.

If you can't understand some of the manuals, that may give you an indication to how easy/hard it will be to use the controller.

 

OK it's difficult when you don't have the controller in front of you, but some manuals you just can't follow no matter what!

 

As we've all said, don't rush in and try and get hands on with as many as possible, it really will pay in the end.

 

Have fun looking and trying!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

That's a good point there. I have had a look around at some of the DCC systems on the market, other than Hornby and Bachmann. Although there are some that I think are okay if I can afford them but some of the cab like control ones do have a lot of complexity with them.

[traction]

You are correct!

Some of the cabs have lots of multiple button pushes to operate points, so reading the manuals will give a bit of insight into what you can expect.

Kernow model center has good reports, and they do seem to have a few of the DCC systems for sale.

Could be worth taking the Elite into them to see if they can see whats happened.

 

They may even be able to demo some of the other systems.

 

I would try and get in a the least busy time though!

Weekend before Christmas will probably be very busy, but you can at least ask.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[nhdesigns]

You are correct!

Some of the cabs have lots of multiple button pushes to operate points, so reading the manuals will give a bit of insight into what you can expect.

Kernow model center has good reports, and they do seem to have a few of the DCC systems for sale.

Could be worth taking the Elite into them to see if they can see whats happened.

 

They may even be able to demo some of the other systems.

 

I would try and get in a the least busy time though!

Weekend before Christmas will probably be very busy, but you can at least ask.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

Well I don't mind the Christmas rush. Mind you I've been down there before on the last few days of Christmas and not to offend, but they don't seem as busy as many other places. Although I think they might be a bit busier now they are the main stock holders of all the Model Rail exclusives along with there own. I know I said that Hornby might not be as good with DCC but at the end of the day their controllers are pretty much what I am use to. Of course I do have a Macbook Pro but it's got Windows 7 on it which will run the Railmaster software. Anyway I have decided to stick with what I'm pretty much use to and that's why instead of sending off my elite for repair to Hornby I might just as well buy a new one from Kernow Models at the same price I paid for the one, three years ago, that died earlier this week. Besides which they have a special offer on for the Hornby elite and Railmaster together for £169 that will only cost me £159 because I've already got £10 on loyalty credit there. I've even sent away for a new terminal connector for my Dynamis that will arrive before Christmas. So even if the new Elite I'm going to buy gets into difficulty, I'll still have a backup DCC system to keep me going.

[traction]

What you really must do is double check all of the wiring BEFORE connecting up the new Elite.

 

There must have been a reason for it to die in the first place.

You don't want to be connecting any new controller up and having that go bang.

 

Have fun!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Griffin Road]

A good way I find to check out dcc wiring is to connect a dc controller up first and check for shorts . Any will do and systematically go through the wiring until you find your fault . I usually find it is a wrongly wired up point frog switch or a missing insulated joiner .

 

Saves blowing anything expensive up !

 

 

M.b