BR Mk1 Sleeping Coaches

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi

I am after some information on BR Mk1 Sleeping coaches like how many coaches per train?

Would they have worked on Western/ Southern regions?

And also would they have needed a brake or Full brake?

 

Thanks

Scott

[eastwestdivide]

1. Depends - Scottish internal not many at all, ECML/WCML some trains much longer.

2. Yes, but not much on the Southern (possibly Poole for a while and a Dover Motorail I think)

3. Yes, there were no brake sleeper coaches that I'm aware of.

 

Have a search on the forum for "sleeper formations" - there's quite a lot of info to be had from existing topics.

 

Did you have a period in mind?

[chrisf]

Western, yes.  How many depends on the train  and the date!  The sleeper from Paddington to Milford Haven, for example, was one car amid a load of newspaper vans, whereas the Penzance train had half a dozen or more.

 

As for the Southern, at one time in the 1960s there was a Stirling to Newhaven car carrier which I seem to recall had sleeping accommodation. I am not aware that the SR's overnight services to the West Country carried sleepers in modern times, or indeed ancient ones.

 

Every passenger carrying train except DOO ones must have accommodation for the guard. and a brake for him to operate if need be.

 

Chris

[jonny777]

 If you are modelling the 1969/70 period, I found this snippet in the August 1970 R.O.

 

"Sleeping Cars:- Many of the series 2064-2120 (various regions) are undergoing modifications and refitting. Interior lighting and decor are being altered, and the exterior branding changed from 'Sleeping Car' to 'Inter-City Sleeper'. "

[Joseph_Pestell]

In late 1981 or early 1982 I made a business trip to Liverpool from London. That was still possible then by sleeper. I think that there were two Mk1 sleepers (may only have been one), a few seating coaches and then full brakes and vans.

[Earl Bathurst]

Thanks for the info. I forgot the most important part im looking at late 50/ 60s

 

Chris as for the western sleeper do you have more information regarding this working, like the newspapers would they have been full brakes and GUV's?

Thanks

Scott

[chrisf]

No problem, Scott.  The following were the formations in summer 1961:

 

11.50 pm Paddington to Penzance: Siphon G, brake second, first, three seconds, brake second and extra second on Fridays only for Penzance, second, first sleeper, second sleeper and brake van for Plymouth, "van" for Bristol.

 

12.30 am Paddington to Penzance: BG [80708 or 80720], 2 SKs Mondays only, composite sleeper Fridays only, first sleeper and second sleeper (both Sats excepted), brake second and Siphon G to Penzance, 2 Siphons G to Plymouth, GW design BG to Paignton as far as Newton Abbot, GUV to Taunton except on Mondays when it ran through to Newton Abbot.  The sleepers were booked to be MK 1s.

 

12.35 am Saturdays only [well, Friday night!] Paddington to Penzance: 9 sleeping cars top and tailed by a brake composite.  Al but one of the sleepers were booked to be Mk 1s so presumably the other was a GW one, probably a Hawksworth with 6 wheel bogies. 

 

12.45 am Paddington to West Wales: Siphon G to Cardiff, Siphon G to Swansea, "large van", brake van and three Siphons G to Carmarthen, composite sleeper and brake second to Milford Haven, two Siphons G and "large brake van" to Cardiff, Siphon G and Fruit D to Newport.  This had been a newspaper and parcels train for years until the WR decided to add the sleeper.  The public timetable described it as a sleeping car train. 

 

What, you may ask, is the difference between a "van" and a "large van"?  I wish I knew.

 

HTH

 

Chris

[Earl Bathurst]

Thanks Chris

Would it matter where the sleeping coaches were placed in the formation?

Scott

[chrisf]

Depends on how prototypical you want to be, Scott!  The railways did things the way they did for a reason and mere mortals like us were not always privy to those reasons.

 

Chris

[Earl Bathurst]

Very true Chris.

Thanks for all the help. The Bachmann Mk1 Sleepers look superb so might buy some to run on layout.

Thanks

Scott

[Joseph_Pestell]

On that particular run, it would be important as the train would be reversing at Swansea and Carmarthen. Putting the vehicles in any other order would make operation more difficult.

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

What, you may ask, is the difference between a "van" and a "large van"?  I wish I knew.

 

HTH

 

Chris

 

So do I Chris as at times both seem to cover bogie vans while in some trains 'van' clearly means a 4 or 6 wheeled vehicle.  I suspect it's a hangover from the past when, once upon a time, there really was a difference.

[two tone green]

Good to know about the sleeper and large van to Milford. It means I can get away with a Mk1 and BG possibly in 7mm on my layout based around the Haverfordwest area.