Matt's workbench mods, 71000 R3168 Railroad, Hornby Stepney Preserved

[Elgar]

Yes, Ray the brass tube round the reversing rod was to keep it straight - also has the advantage of making it look vaguely circular cross section! Took the opportunity of routing the rod to the correct part of  the reversing gearbox at the same time.

 

Didn't mention in my last post that no perceptible change in current draw was observed between the two types of coupling rod. I'm wondering whether I have an issue with the pickups. Am thinking about building a lash up using a tender with some pickups in to see if smoother running results (did something like that to improve one of my Bachmann split chassis Lord Nelsons using a borrowed King Arthur tender and that worked well)

 

Meanwhile have just given myself a little challenge by shortening the DoG's smokebox and now have to restore the highly noticeable nakedness of the rivet line!

 

Regards

 

Bob

[Silver Sidelines]

Bob, sounds as though you have removed the smokebox door.  Did it come away cleanly or did it tear the plastic on the outside by the rivets?

 

I replaced the tender chassis with a spare part for a Britannia.  This comes with pickups (which I did not use).  There could be a way of utilising the pickups for better running although I have to say that I am not seeing problems in this area.?

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Agree with Ray, the pickup and running of my model seems to be ok, I was thinking of doing Rays trick of redoing the tender for the pickups but didn't really need it, I did find on mine I received it one of the pickup wipers was bent, might want to check those or the connection between the base plate and its contacts to the motor, which I think is probably one of the more interesting parts and quite a good bit of design when it works.

[Elgar]

Hello Ray & Bluebell!

 

Might just have been lucky but the smokebox door came away quite cleanly without any damage to main body moulding. I just put a finger inside the smokebox with thumb against the front and pushed it out. There was no glue on the top part of mine so it started to hinge forward from the bottom. A bit of coaxing was needed at the bottom where there are 3 locating fingers that engage with 2 runners inside the smokebox floor. There was a bit of glue encountered here which needed some "help" with a scapel. (I needed to trim away some plastic at the angle between smokebox floor/sloping front footplate join to get the door back in flush). Once out, the rebated section inside the 'box is a useful cutting guide to remove the excess length. This does take away the rivet line, of course. I saw a piece years ago whereby small holes can be drilled where the rivets need to be and filled with short pieces of fine rod or stretched sprue. Once properly dry, the excess length can be cut/sanded off. Will try it when feeling brave - think i'll need to draw out the spacing on some paper and glue it on as a guide!

 

Slight note of caution: Either the smokebox or the door of my model is a bit out round as there is slight gap where the door doesn't quite cover the cut edges.

 

I'll check out the base plate contacts. they did look a bit oily when last seen.

 

Best regards

 

Bob

Edited March 16, 2014 by Elgar

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Bob

.. There was no glue on the top part of mine so it started to hinge forward from the bottom..

The smoke box door on mine is unglued at the bottom and glued around the top edge.  It seems to want to rotate around the top edge but I am worried that rather than the glue failing it will break the thin plastic at the top of the smoke box.

 

Another challenge.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Indeedy well might stop a few moaning over that overhang, I shall look in to this in a few days nice discovery, I'll tie it in with the replacement of the deflectors and fitting these new bogie wheels also which look a bit better, still waiting for these Hornby accessory packs to come out so I can attach some detail.

[Elgar]

Hello Ray,

 

I think you are wise to be cautious.There is a very delicate flange round the smokebox door which will definitely not survive abuse!

 

In my ignorance, i had thought that a backup might be made using a Britannia part but that won't work as it is slightly smaller - certainly the opening door part is narrower. I think even the proper DoG door is a bit on the small side. I've been looking at your photo with the brass door dart fitted and can just make out part of the smokebox barrel is exposed - i can see it easier on mine 'cos it's against green plastic where i'd cut. (If i'd realised how close to the wind i'd been sailing would probably not have started!)

 

There is no spare part number (like L5402) on the DoG part so i reckon that this loco was on a strictly "when it's gone, it's gone basis". (Not even the main body has a part ref that i can see)

 

Just had my first look at the tender. Hadn't realised it had a metal frame - did the latest Brits have this? My only Brit tenders have motors in them! Was deeply impressed by what a tight fit Hornby had got with the water strainer tanks until i saw they were integral with the body!!

 

Best regards

 

Bob

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Bob

 

I think are mixing Ray and Bluebell (Matt) - it was Matt's smoke box dart.

..Hadn't realised it had a metal frame - did the latest Brits have this? My only Brit tenders have motors in them! Was deeply impressed by what a tight fit Hornby had got with the water strainer tanks until i saw they were integral with the body!!

 

Best regards

 

Bob

As to DoG tender you might find this Blog Post of interest.  As with almost all of DoG why didn't Hornby use existing components.  All the Super Detail Britannias have similar tender underframes with a metal footplate, plastic frames and plastic buffer beams.  I butchered a Britannia tender underframe so that I could have sprung buffers.  It is quite straightforward and relatively cheap. - it is all in the Blog

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

PS thanks for the additional information regards the smokebox door.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I think it may of been discussed remember reading it some where why they didn't use the existing tooling, possibly due to the factory move, possible damage to toolings or they could not take the toolings with them, couldn't really have sprung buffers on the rear and not the front. I decided when I did mine to keep the original tender chassis as that was basically its weight to keep it on the track which I was surprise at if I'm honest they made it that way.

I was considering your tender change Ray especially with the tender pickups which can be quite easily added I may do that a bit further down the road if I encounter any pickup issues. Still reasonably impressed with how much it can pull especially up my clubs test track slopes.
 

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Matt

I think it may of been discussed remember reading it some where why they didn't use the existing tooling, ....... Still reasonably impressed with how much it can pull especially up my clubs test track slopes.
 

I too like how much it can pull -

.

 

As you say the non-use of previous parts are down to changes in factory.  I am still puzzled as to why Hornby would reinvent the wheel - so to speak.  Perhaps it says more about the Hornby's contracts and how much of the design is left to the manufacturer.  Comparing the Britannias and DoG it does seem to me that even small parts such as the drawbar hook have been made differently when I would have thought that Hornby would have had standard CAD drawings for such items.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Ray

Indeed I saw the video of yours I also did a small clip sadly I ran out of coaches but seemed to handle 8 with no problem, so nothing wrong with its capability.
I think maybe this is part of the process we don't fully know... who owns what and who does what.
If we look at Dapol, Bachmann, Hornby, do they do the CADs?
 From listening to these special commissions, what it looks like is the factory does these CADs sends them back for inspection then the company sends them back and gives the ok or a list of changes... so who owns the CADs? I guess the factory... hence why Hornby had to start again from scratch having moved to several other factories.

But that's a guess I don't know the true fact, or is it just down to the new Design clever which seems to of disappeared a bit for 2014.

I just read your mention of these not so Etched Plates with the special edition... it's amazing I mentioned this on the main thread back in January... strangely I think It was ignored.... and its come back again. The plate is just a flat piece of brass with a transfer over it, Hornbys clever design cut corners save money, I disassembled one of these etched plates... its backing is brass, but it's far from Etched... another selling point just words... and not so true.

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Bluebell Model Railway

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Since I haven't updated this topic since 2014... its about time I did...

Hornby Stepney, 655 (A1), R3780

So my next victim, being a preservation modeller, as that's all I can remember, and haven't been on this earth for to long, so I wanted to get hold of Stepney having sold off my old modified Dapol version. Of course Horn have released Stepney in it's A1 condition... which for me needs to be A1x.



So a number of areas needed attention some for the brave rather than the not so confident modeller... but Im a bit daring... so what needs changing...
-Smokebox flush rivet, or riveted depending on era
-Smokebox door (longer straps)
-Lamp irons
-Remove Westinghouse pump
-Splasher changed
-Sandboxes
-Additional pipe work
-Dome moved forwards
-Brake blocks
-Bunker rails
-Etched plates
-Special extras

Firstly design, as I am fortunate to have a 3D printer, I designed the parts I required like the smoke-box, bunker, and also the sandboxes, as well as smaller detail parts. So these were designed, supported and printed in black resin.
I have these parts available in kits if people are interested in doing this crazy conversion.



Before the cutting starts I will start with the simple bits, the ones you can unscrew and refit, luckily Hornby released a limited supply of spares, I purchased a later keeper plate with the correct brake blocks fitted to the BR version. So nice and simple...



The Cab, depending what model you are making, my terrier shouldn't have a Westinghouse air pump, so needs to be removed. Some acetone to soften the glue and it came off. Some excess glue was around to 2 holes this required flatting back, and the holes filling with 2mm plastic rod, and again flatted back to be flush with the surface. If you have the improved engine green, the paint colour isn't quite correct it's too yellow and now paint matched it. Taking the Cab to B&Q they could scan the colour, and reproduce it for £2. This matched perfectly!
While working on the cab, the bunker rails were added small amount of fettling, and a small amount of super glue.

 

Detail parts are removed from the body shell, saving parts from the smoke-box like lubrication pots on the front for reuse later. The handrails are carefully removed and stored, and the cab comes off quite easily.

The smoke box, this is the scary bit for any modeller, and must be done carefully, remove the chimney you may need a small amount of acetone to soften the glue, removing the box I would advise leaving margin with the rest of the plastic to be filed off. For mine I did use a disc cutter on a dremel, however I would advise a very fine razor saw. Remove the spasher / sandbox  separately to clean up and remove the sandbox part.

 

The splashers are filed down to create the half moon shaped splasher, you will need a small amount of plasticard with a thickness of 0.5mm (20 thou) this is slightly curved to match the splasher, and glued in place, some filler is used and lightly sanded back, the top will be painted black.

The smoke-box is assembled with door in place, and detail from the smoke-box, handrails, lamp iron, and oil pots, and a new turned brass dart are fitted to the model, and checked for fit, and also offered up to the boiler barrel.

 

The boiler, again depending on your skill level or depending on your prototype you can opt out of this part if you're not feeling brave... For preservation version the dome was in the wrong place, so it needed to be moved approx 3mm forwards. Using a pencil I marked where I was going to cut. I used a sharp craft knife to cut along the marks, this went quite well... I removed around 3mm more forward of the dome, and replaced it with a piece of plasticard behind the dome. I chose to leave the safety valves in place in case I damaged them when trying to remove them. The area was levelled using filled, and very fine wet and dry sand paper, and using the B&Q paint finished off.

 

 

Moving the dome forward means extra room for the additional boiler fittings. Using 0.7mm copper wire, and O gauge handrail knobs, which would create the valves on top of the boiler. I marked out the position according to photo's, worth noting terrier's had various positions of these fittings, especially on the IOW versions, so make sure and check.
The 2 closest the dome are 13mm from the front of the cab. With the other 1 being 11.5mm.
The handrail knobs require drilling from the side to fit 0.45mm brass wire these will locate in to the empty holes on the front of the cab.
The copper wire is shaped as per a photograph and a small hole (0.75mm) drilled in the running plate for the wire to locate. The brass parts where cleaned, then chemically blackened.



 The smoke-box and top of the splashers are painted in black this covers over the modifications to the spasher and hides the print lines on the smoke-box and the door. Details, these are optional depending on what terrier you are converting. Mine requires the extended lamp irons on the front and rear. These are available from RT models and require bending in to shape and light soldering. A small hole is required to fix them in place. When soldered you can chemically blacken them and paint them, and glue them in place with a glue of your choice, I used some araldite.

 

The last main pipe, This runs from the cab, to the smoke-box, made from 0.8mm brass, I have also added a 0.8mm washer  where the pipe joins the smoke-box, the hole for this is indented on the smoke-box. The brass rod needs to be shaped, and checked along the way, the cab on Hornby's model has various holes for additional detail. Once shaped, you can chemically blacken the brass then paint.

 

Adding the new sandboxes, they are fitted to the underside of the running plate, I've painted the blood red as it seems to match the running plate sides. The pipe work 0.5mm brass wire, bent to shape using photos as a reference.

 

Re-assembly, now back on the way to going back together, etched plates from EB models arrived required painting, if you're unsure how to paint etched plates view my video.
Add these to the bucker sides over the number if yours is LBSCR improved engine green. I attach these with varnish not glue.



Chimney Optional, To do all this work I opted to splash out, and go for a 3D printed in metal chimney cap, be warned it is not cheap costing £16-20 at the time of writing, simply order from Shapeways, await delivery, first step to remove the painted cap this is done with a cutting disc or razor saw, this leaves an opening, Evergreen plastic tube 2.5mm inserted in to Chimney which centres the cap. small amount of super glue fixes this in place.
Re-fit the chimney with superglue in to the recess.



The finished article.....



More images on FlickR here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmG676VN

[SteveyDee68]

A belated thanks for your guide to improving the Duke of Gloucester - have just been looking at models on eBay and seeing some quite large price differences between what I now know to be “Railroad” and “detailed” versions!

 

To be honest, the only differences I could spot were the yellow painted roller bearing axle boxes and the handrails on the smoke deflectors!

 

I think your modifications bring the “Railroad” version up to a better standard than the “detailed” version!
 

I started looking at Duke of Gloucester models due to the inflated prices of Britannia models on eBay - I can pick up a DoG out of the “set” at BIN for around the same price as many auctions start at for tender driven older spec Britannia models!

 

Thanks again

 

Steve S