brianthesnail96 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi all Firstly, apologies for starting yet another "0 scale newbie" thread! I have perused with interest some of the other similar threads on this forum and will try and avoid repeating too many questions, but since I've got the beginnings in place I thought I should make a thread to track my (lack of) progress and to give the occasional cry of "Help!" from. People to blame for this 7mm interlude include Dapol, for their open wagons (before you all shout, it won't actually be making an appearance, but it was cheap enough to be an impulse buy to "look nice on the shelf above the 00, that's all dear"), and GlosG0G/ Golden Valley MRC for inviting me to come and have a play on their test track while I was in Antics' warehouse shop having purchased said wagon. This was followed by a Parkside 16 tonner and suddenly 00 seemed a bit... small. I had a lovely 00 layout, not built by me I hasten to add, with a small collection of Western Region stock. Having had a bit of a break from railways while playing with various old vehicles- specifically a friend's 1980 Triumph Dolomite, as well as my own fleet of slightly decrepit Marinas- I've got more involved with the GlosG0G group again and have decided that it's time to bite the bullet and dive head first into the world of 7mm/ft. I sold my 00 layout via RMWeb, and while I was at the Bristol show with the Golden Valley (which is an offshoot of GlosG0G, incidentally) test track managed to pick up some Peco track from the Executors stand- and, expensively, a Brassworks 04 in blue from Finescale Brass. No going back now... I did umm and ahh over the Ixion Fowler with sound from EDM models and meandered past their stand several times- one will definitely be joining the fleet eventually. The decision was made mid afternoon when the EDM demonstrator appeared on the test track complete with grinning new owner- it was every bit as good as I imagined, but I had the proceeds from the 00 layout burning a hole... Reasons for change? Mostly wanting to try new things... Firstly, I've never actually built my own layout, beyond a couple of "roundy roundys" as a child. I'd love to be able to exhibit my layout, even if it's just on a local scale, particularly after spending a day operating a diesel depot layout at the little 0 gauge show in Hardwicke, Gloucester last year. I want to incorporate DCC sound. I remain unconvinced by steam sound, although some are very good (Lionheart's Prairie was being demonstrated at Bristol and I certainly wouldn't kick one off my layout), which left me with diesels- this has an advantage of moving me into an entirely new era, as I've only had the odd diesel previously on mostly steam layouts. I want to incorporate a few features that are probably more suited to 7mm- grassy, weed strewn trackwork with sleepers hidden in the ballast, and inset trackwork. That and some concrete inset track, and general semi urban industrial grottyness. I don't do twee... Tied in to the above, I want to use static grass as I think it's a big step forward over traditional techniques, especially in 7mm, and I really like the effect it gives- I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it is mine! I want to try some new (to me) baseboard techniques, most likely some form of ply- clad foamboard. Weathering! Never tried it before... More work on wagons, even if it's fairly basic level, instead of "that's about the right colour/ lettering style for my era, that'll do". Slow speed shunting. Ability to run industrials in a sensible setting, and not just as an aside to a BR layout... although I'd like to be able to run as a BR operated yard too. That seemed enough of a list to make the jump worthwhile- although a number of them could obviously have been incorporated into my existing 00 layout or a new one, some are definitely more suited to 7mm and with an active local 7mm specific club it almost makes sense (especially if you close your eyes when opening your wallet). Pondering layout ideas at the moment- I have about 12ft to play with "at home", but am contemplating having the fiddle yard additional to this to give us a bit more operational potential- I can set the whole lot up at the club, and at exhibitions if it comes to that. In that I'd like to incorporate a couple of different industries, including some form of generic factory with a loading dock for van & open merchandise traffic, and possibly also coal traffic (grotty 16 tonners are essential!), and probably some form of oil depot too. Sorry for the rather rambling post! Watch this space, but don't hold your breath Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alant Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Matt, Welcome to the fold, will look forward to seeing your progress. Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 "This was followed by a Parkside 16 tonner and suddenly 00 seemed a bit... small." Ah, yes. This is a very well-known side-effect of experimentation with 0 gauge wagon kits. I regret to say that this condition is incurable. Forever more 4mm scale will seem like 3mm scale to your retrained eye. But not to worry, 0 gauge is very satisfying and full of jolly good chaps. Here is a link to my layout project: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Cheers gents. Chris, I've been watching Cwm Bach with interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Brian Matt, Welcome to the wonderful world of 7mm modelling. It's not as scary as it looks! There are quite a number of hugely knowledgeable and experienced folks on here who are always more than happy to answer any questions you might have. I look forward to seeing your progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Matt Looks like we are bothh moving from 4 to 7mm at the same time, good fun isn't it? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You won't regret it even if at times things seem to take much longer to finish. I made the switch over 20 years ago and well before the current crop of super detailed 4mm RTR over which I drool occasionally. However despite the attractions of the new Hornby Claude, I prefer my 7mm version which I built from a kit. There's no going back and my new Heljan 7mm Western is hard to beat! Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Welcome to the world of 7mm modelling Matt. I took the plunge 25+ years ago and never regretted it. That means I am wedded to DC rather than DCC. The cost of changing now would be too much and with my small locos stuffed full of lead, there is no room for a chip anyway. Which livery version of the Ixion Fowler do you go for? Although I have fitted my locos with DCC, I am still somewhat agnostic about the benefits. Steam sound remains not quite convincing, but the diesels are usually good. I still operate points and signals via DC and see little advantage of DCC operation on a very small layout. I will certainly never consider operation via a computer, tablet or mobile phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I must admit that's very similar to my way of thinking Chris- although I am definitely a convert to loco control, certainly based on my 00 gauge experience. My 00 layout was wired for DCC when I bought it so that made the decision for me, but I wanted to try it anyway- particularly as the 00 layout was large enough to justify a resident shunter/ station pilot so two locos on one track was fairly common. On a small "one engine in steam" layout less so, but the other thing that suprised me with DCC was the improvement in running quality- a mediocre loco on DC (admittedly not a fair test, as my DC controllers are equally mediocre!) was transformed with a good quality chip running on DCC. Although my layout will be small, my loco(s) will also hopefully get the occasional outing on other club member's layouts, the exhibitionable ones of which are mostly DCC. I'm still very unconvinced with steam sound, but think it works for diesels- personally I think a bit part of this is the difference in how you drive an electric steam engine compared to an actual steam engine, whereas driving an electric diesel is less dissimilar to a real one, and hence the sounds can be replicated more realistically. I also can't see the appeal of DCC points or signals- my 00 layout was electric points with an old fashioned bank of switches, which was just the way I like it and almost certainly the direction I'll be taking in 7mm. Same applies to using a computer or phone. As for which livery of Fowler, when I eventually get my mits on one it'll be unlined green, although in the fullness of time it may end up a different colour. Still not convinced that I didn't make the wrong decision in going for the Brassworks 04. It's very notchty at the moment at low speeds, hopefully this will improve with running in. It'll be spending tomorrow evening plodding around the test track! Although the 00 layout has gone, I still have all the stock to sell to replenish the modelling fund. First priority is baseboards, although a few more wagon kits will be coming this way as well- a Slaters "Vanwide" or two for starters, as it's rather nice sometimes to sit in the dining room in close proximity to tea & biccies and glue a few more bits to the table, instead of hiding away in the spare room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 ... I did umm and ahh over the Ixion Fowler with sound from EDM models and meandered past their stand several times- one will definitely be joining the fleet eventually. The decision was made mid afternoon when the EDM demonstrator appeared on the test track complete with grinning new owner- it was every bit as good as I imagined, but I had the proceeds from the 00 layout burning a hole . . . . . Hi Matt Pleased to hear that Paul's demo model went to a good home . . . I was the other half of the sales team so got to count the cash . . !! Two sound chips were also sold to those who had already bought locos and with lots of other bits and pieces sold it made it a worthwile first visit to Bristol. Next year Paul hopes to get a waterproof van as there was a gap in the rubber seal around the back doors which meant that some stock got a bit damp - luckily these were Bachmann Narrow Gauge boxes that have a cellophane wrapper on so we were able to dry them without any damage to the cardboard inner or the contents. We are down your way again in a couple of weeks at the narrow gauge show at Shepton Mallet if you're ready to part with some cash . . !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I must admit that's very similar to my way of thinking Chris- although I am definitely a convert to loco control, certainly based on my 00 gauge experience. My 00 layout was wired for DCC when I bought it so that made the decision for me, but I wanted to try it anyway- particularly as the 00 layout was large enough to justify a resident shunter/ station pilot so two locos on one track was fairly common. On a small "one engine in steam" layout less so, but the other thing that suprised me with DCC was the improvement in running quality- a mediocre loco on DC (admittedly not a fair test, as my DC controllers are equally mediocre!) was transformed with a good quality chip running on DCC. Although my layout will be small, my loco(s) will also hopefully get the occasional outing on other club member's layouts, the exhibitionable ones of which are mostly DCC. I'm still very unconvinced with steam sound, but think it works for diesels- personally I think a bit part of this is the difference in how you drive an electric steam engine compared to an actual steam engine, whereas driving an electric diesel is less dissimilar to a real one, and hence the sounds can be replicated more realistically. I also can't see the appeal of DCC points or signals- my 00 layout was electric points with an old fashioned bank of switches, which was just the way I like it and almost certainly the direction I'll be taking in 7mm. Same applies to using a computer or phone. As for which livery of Fowler, when I eventually get my mits on one it'll be unlined green, although in the fullness of time it may end up a different colour. Still not convinced that I didn't make the wrong decision in going for the Brassworks 04. It's very notchty at the moment at low speeds, hopefully this will improve with running in. It'll be spending tomorrow evening plodding around the test track! Although the 00 layout has gone, I still have all the stock to sell to replenish the modelling fund. First priority is baseboards, although a few more wagon kits will be coming this way as well- a Slaters "Vanwide" or two for starters, as it's rather nice sometimes to sit in the dining room in close proximity to tea & biccies and glue a few more bits to the table, instead of hiding away in the spare room. I'm with you on the performance enhancement. Quite often I will run my steam locos with the sound off. As far as the Fowler is concerned, I am very cautious about promoting it outside the Ixion section, but here is a link to my personal specimen that I have repainted black and generally titivated. I am in the process of applying some weathering to represent a well cared for pet that works in a relatively benign environment. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78328-ixion-0-gauge-fowler-diesel-loco/page-5 EDM Models' sound project from Paul Martin is installed and is a great job. Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes I am not at all convinced by steam sound but the diesel sounds I have seen on some members YouTube videos are awesome. That said the cost puts me off completely although I wonder if this new Hornby TTS low cost sound system would be able to cope with O Gauge locos. Possibly not if you have a high current motor spec but some of the modern cordless motors might be OK. I am no expert and there are many out there who will presumably be able to answer this question. There wold be limitations - you can't apparently reblow them and they would need to be available as spares. Would anyone with more expertise be able to comment Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes I am not at all convinced by steam sound but the diesel sounds I have seen on some members YouTube videos are awesome. That said the cost puts me off completely although I wonder if this new Hornby TTS low cost sound system would be able to cope with O Gauge locos. Possibly not if you have a high current motor spec but some of the modern cordless motors might be OK. I am no expert and there are many out there who will presumably be able to answer this question. There wold be limitations - you can't apparently reblow them and they would need to be available as spares. Would anyone with more expertise be able to comment Paul R All of my 0 Gauge locos and railcars run on "4mm scale" decoders, mostly SWD, apart from my Heljan Hymek and Western diesels, which need XL beasties at an XL price. The Ixion Hudswell Clarke and Fowler diesel draw such a small current (~350-375Ma for the former and <300Ma for the latter) that they can be run with most "N gauge" decoders. Most of my kit-built locos run on ABC gear-boxes driven by Canon motors, the combination of which is a miserly current draw and first class running. It will certainly be interesting to test the new Hornby TTS system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Welcome to the senior scale. I've been modelling 7mm for 40 years, most of them a a member of the Gauge 0 Guild. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Welcome Matt, build a 7mm waggon as an experiment, then your done for it's 7mm from now on in. Enjoy. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Sorry PD&SWJR Paul, to clarify- I've managed to "fix" (bodge!) 00 locos with uninspiring running qualities on DC, and for that matter with cheap decoders on DCC, by dropping in a good decoder- that's not to say a good loco on DC will be any better on DCC. I don't intend to have a huge fleet of locos- not least because I'm already finding that I'm a lot more interested in wagons now I have to build them- so the cost of adding sound is less significant to me- especially if I can get away with using 00 chips (on that note- first question- what sort of current draw should I expect from my 04 once it's run in?). I'd much rather have a couple of locos with accurate, well defined sound correct to that loco that a larger fleet with generic sound. Can only run one at once anyway in the space I have! Mike- I should have come and introduced myself really, that said you always seemed to have a good crowd around the stand! The chap that bought the demonstrator certainly seemed very pleased with it, and rightly so by my reckoning. On that note, Ixion Chris- feel free to promote it here, I'm definitely a convert and was keeping an eye out for more updates on "Kitchener". Looks good in black! I rather fancy doing one in some variation of tan or sand. I only went for the 04 because a.) EDM sold the sound fitted plain green one before I'd made up my mind, and the chap who bought it said you didn't have another, b.) it's more in keeping with the diesel depot & BR(WR) branch line through station layouts at the club and c.) the real things were Gardner diesels which I have a bit of a soft spot for, since I play with a couple of real ones (a 4LW in a Unipower and a 6LW in a Scammell) when not playing with trains or terrible 70's cars... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think the improvement of running on DCC is largely down to the pulse-width-modification output that they use for the motor. I used a PWM controller on my OO gauge shunting layout the other day and there was an immediate improvement in the performance of all my locomotives, particularly in the slow speed range. I really love Ixion's O scale products. They tick all the boxes in terms of running quality, scale appearance, and pricing. Their RTR models are about the same price as an average small locomotive kit.I also particularly like slater's kits. The mouldings are of good quality, they require very little fettling to fit well and they have been well thought-out in their design. They really are a doddle to put together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 I only went for the 04 because EDM sold the sound fitted plain green one before I'd made up my mind, and the chap who bought it said you didn't have another, That's right - the problem Paul has is that the sound conversion has proved to be so popular that he finds it difficult to keep enough in stock for 'casual' sales and most go straight out with mail order. I think he had picked up the wrong box off the desk after doing some work as when he opened it, it was a partly weathered body and not what the customer wanted. That's why he bought the display model which had been running all the day before at another show in Derby and half a day at Bristol. The partly weathered loco then became the demo model. Of course the way to make sure you get what you want is to order one but there will be a slight delay as he's over at Festiniog this week replacing all of the wiring on a diesel loco - same job larger scale !! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Not sure if having to run hard to stand still in regards to keeping up with demand should really be described as a problem Mike! I'm glad (both for you and the Pauls, and Ixion) that they are going like the proverbial hot cakes. I've hoiked the body off the 04 today and test run it, and think I've found the problem- I appear to have a loose wheel! The driven (front) axle is wider to gauge relative to the remainder- and, although it's difficult to see with the Mk1 eyeball, it looks like that wheel is out of quarter with the rest- the other side looks OK. I suspect it's the quartering that's making it snag, and I suspect it's got worse with the couple of hours running it had on Friday. Not quite sure what the best course of action is with it now. That and the Grampus kit I was building is inexplicably missing one axle box back! Back to the drawing board, I shall console myself with some more track planning... (Piccy pinched from the Golden Valley blog, as I was too busy nattering to take one...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 If the wheels are simply a push fit on the axle you may be able to adjust the slight quartering defect by a careful twist. Superglue round the axle should ensure it won't move but you may need to dismantle it to fix it (you certainly will before putting superglue anywhere near it!). If the wheels are Slaters or similar I am not sure what the cure is going to be. Are the coupling rods free enough on the crank pins. A lightly sloppy fit might resolve the issue. I don't think the lightly wide of gauge axle should cause oo much of a problem but without seeing it I can't rely comment. Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Cheers- they are a push fit, by the looks of things with a (fairly) soft plastic sleeve between wheel and axle. It is possible to "twist" and I have managed to improve matters slightly, but I've been cautious of being too exuberant with it and loosening the wheel off further. I actually identified the problem on removing the rods (which are lovely bushed three piece things, that are then a really sloppy fit!) to see if it was them that was causing the bind- I gripped the wheel by hand to unscrew the crankpin and felt it "give" slightly as I did so, when I put it back together it was much worse- when I looked it was noticeably out, but given the difference in gauge between that axle and the other two and the tiny amount I felt it move when I took the rods off I'm fairly sure it was the original cause of the problem. I also think that the affected wheel is slightly out of true. I did try and run it without rods to see if it would run smoothly but there's far too much drag from the plunger pickups! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Boing! Having done a bit of "3D planning", otherwise known as dropping some track down in the spare room and seeing what it actually looks like. The answer, it would appear, is "mostly points"... We're looking at moving house in the next year or so as well, with no idea what space restraints we're going to have. This has prompted a bit of a rethink, and putting the layout plans on hold until a) the Peco small radius points appear, or l summon enough courage to build my own, and b) I know how much space I've got to play with going forwards. With my rate of progress I'd probably have just built boards and laid track when we move house and then find it's 18" too long for the new house (or worse- 18" too short!). There's also the small matter that I've just sold one of my estate cars, and the other one is coming off the road for a long overdue restoration this Winter. All is not lost, as there's no shortage of trackage at the club- but this is prompting another rethink, as the general theme is late BR (WR) steam, and I got to play with a couple of Lionheart Panniers, including a sound equipped one... now, I may have made some mildly derogative comments about steam sound earlier, but I have to admit I was impressed. I've still not managed to get the 04 running right, which helps... it's very tempting to cut my losses and sell the 04 (anyone fancy a project...), pour the layout fund into one very nice tank locomotive to go on tour with, and slowly build up a short rake of wagons to go with it- I really enjoy building plastic kits. Might do a little diorama/ test plank to practice my (non existent) scenic skills with though Berkeley Junction's allocated shunter for a couple of Saturdays ago, and a passing freight- this may have influenced the change of direction somewhat... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I always find Slaters plungers too stiff and endupcutting to springs in alf or less - too much friction will wear the wheels over time and you are better off with a much looser pressure. Can you modify your 04 Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Look forward to your progress Matt, always good to see another O Gauge convert and his layout. Cheers, Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 I always find Slaters plungers too stiff and endupcutting to springs in alf or less - too much friction will wear the wheels over time and you are better off with a much looser pressure. Can you modify your 04 Paul R Hi Paul, That's a possibilty- they do seem overly sprung, and rather pointy- but I don't think it's a cause of the jerky running in this case. I did manage to get it to run a lot better with careful tweaking on the motor/ gearbox/ drive axle assembly (screwed into place via oval holes to allow adjustment fore and aft) and the quartering on the drive axle again, but it's still not right. Acceptable forwards but still a little rough backwards; I'm sure it can be sorted but it'll require a rather more delicate (and experienced) touch than I possess. Does anyone know of any people who specialise in such repairs? Coming from 16mm live steam there are several individuals who specialise in restoration, repair and servicing of locomotives, but I've no idea if there's folks doing something similar in 7mm. Realistically I think I may cut my losses with it, and go back in time a few years with a nice BR black pannier tank... the difference in price does pay for a fair few wagons though! Thanks for the welcome by the way Bob- don't hold your breath for progress on my own layout, but I'll keep the thread updated with some pictures of activities on the club's layouts, and member's layouts I've wrangled running rights on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.