Layout design for Tynsleyfield

[Removed a/c]

Hi, 

 

I think I have found a suitable layout however it uses setrack. I would like to use Peco code 100 streamline as it is what I have to hand. I am not sure how to convert it from one to the other. The plan I would like to "copy" is from here :-

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/peco-setrack-oo-plan-19---network-south-east---using-multiple-scenes-to-disguise-an-oval-22397-p.asp

 

 

However I would like the station to have at least another platform. This plan has 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th radius. I would like to get rid of the 1st & 2nd obviously. It is mainly the station area and the track work &  freight yard  that I am interested in. I would be using flexi track on both ends instead of the radius curves. 

 

 

The room I have available is 25ft by 14ft. I don't know if I want to use it all as I think it maybe too overwhelming for me and I abandon it altogether. I would appreciate thoughts on this as well. I do have some pics in my Tynsleyfield thread of the space available. There are no doors in the usable space to get in the way so I could do a duckunder.

 

 

Regards

Scott 

[Nick Holliday]

_{You have a lot of space to play with (I am sure that there are plenty of others reading this who are equally jealous) and it seems a shame to develop your layout based upon a scheme that has been designed to cram a lot of things into an area one-ninth the size.  The Peco plan is quite good for what it has tried to do, but many areas are rather contrived for effect, and given your space, could be far more interesting.  I agree that you may not want to tackle the whole area, at least to start with, so you may want to start with something smaller that can be expanded later.  As with all layout designing, you really need to decide what features you like from the plan, what you really need to add, and those things that might be nice to have.  Once you have this list have a play around, sketching ideas which perhaps make better use of your space.  I wouldn't suggest getting much more complicated than the Peco plan, in fact I would consider simplifying some of the complex pointwork at the bottom, and using the points elsewhere.}

_{Without forcing your hand, I would suggest that, ultimately, you might have a large junction passenger station, a goods yard and perhaps a loco shed, with a branch line with either a passing station or the dreaded BLT.  You may also want some form of fiddle yard, for storing the stock not actually running, and this could be hidden, bare or even properly landscaped, as you could achieve good separation between it and the main visual elements.  As you want a circular layout, I would suggest establishing how you want the circuit to fit the room (or not) but large sweeping curves do look good! Then add the various elements as you see fit.  I would also suggest building it in the same way - create a working circuit with, perhaps, the passenger station developed, with just the points laid ready for the other areas.  This will get something running without overwhelming you, and you may find that, with use, you need to alter the design a bit, and you won't have gone too far at that stage.} 

_{If you do stick with the Peco plan, but expand it a little to give wider curves, you are going to end up with a lot of your layout in tunnel, and you may be just a little frustrated as, although it suggests you could have four trains running at once, there is a bottleneck of only two tracks at the left hand end.}

[TonyMay]

Well it does fit into 25ft by 14ft, using peco large turnouts and slips where there's toe-to-toe points:

 

 

(this is not an entirely serious suggestion, and is just a draft)

 

Drawn with SCARM.

[Removed a/c]

Thanks Nick, 

 

You raise some good points. I initially picked this as it had a station and the above the curves I could create my town and it also had a TMD. It gave me the option of a roundy round and a little shunting. As it was all done in set track it would be an easy option for me. I have been told to stay away from set track and insulfrog points. I am using them at the moment and haven't had any problem in the 2years they have been in service even using my Hornby 08.  I think with a little tweeking this plan may work. I do need a fiddle yard (which I forgot about. I wouldn't mind a station on the opposite side of the one already there to give the trains to and from destinations. I also have a steel plant that I wish to incorporate. 

 

Regards 

Scott 

[Removed a/c]

Thanks Tony !!! 

 

 

Now that does look like it may work. 

[TonyMay]

Thanks Tony !!! 

 

 

Now that does look like it may work. 

 

Well it will, and it won't.  You don't have a fiddle yard, the loop on the right is really too long, the carriage sidings at the bottom left will hold full length HSTs, but are not especially suitable for a TMD/refuelling point for individual locos.  You only have a 3 road station, when you wanted 4, 

 

My thoughts therefore are as follows:

 

1. You need a fiddle yard, and it should be capable of taking full length HSTs or an equivalent length freight train (e.g. MGR coal train).  My thoughts are to site this on the shorter wall, because it just about fits nicely.

2. Start to approach the design as "zoning", by which I mean splitting the layout into individual zones, so a station would be one zone, TMD another, steelworks a third, carriage sidings a fourth, etc.  Once you know where everything should go, and how the main line threads through them, you can work out the details.

3. I'd recommend constructing each zone separately, starting with the fiddle yard, then the station, then the TMD, carriage sidings, and then steelworks.  Doing it this way means that each section can be reasonably completed (with just the platforms in place you can run back and forth between the Fiddle yard and the station).  It also means that if you make a mistake in building the first section you can easily rectify it on the subsequent sections and even rebuild the first one if necessary.  You can also spread the time and money cost out over a longer period.

 

The plan now uses hidden R2 curves; these should be OK with close coupling, but remember to also have hidden a straight the length of one coach before the curve so the humongous perpendicular lurch that throws your 24mm tall people across their carriages spilling their coffee over their laps and breaking their bones happens in its entirety off stage.

 

For background scenery behind the station, I'm imagining Park Hill flats before redevelopment, but maybe more traditional low-relief housing would be more appropriate.

 

 

Note; you can further extend the steelworks over the fiddle yard with some clever use of gradients.  

 

I can send you the SCARM files if you like.

[Removed a/c]

Thanks Tony for your help with this. I never though of creating different zones to be honest but it does make sense. 

 

I have also seen some plans on Free Track Plans that I liked. This one in-particular http://www.freetrackplans.com/1011-Kings-Cross.php It certainly has lots of platforms for locos. I was thinking this could be either an island piece sticking into the middle of the layout or create it as part of the loop and have some platforms as an end of the line and other t allow the roundy round.  

 

I think I may be trying to be a bit to ambitious to be honest. I have never built a layout before other than some track laid down on a 4x8 sheet. 

 

That would be most kind if you could send me the scarm file. I do have the program but have trouble getting to grips with it. 

 

Regards 

Scott 

[TonyMay]

You do seem to have competing aims.  On the one hand, you want to keep it simple and straightforward, on the other, a plan always has an innate tendency to expand to fill all of the available space.

 

The idea of giving the finger (as it were) to a terminus did cross my mind, though since we're in Yorkshire, it's more either one of the Bradford stations rather than King's Cross (which is a big one).  A triangular junction at the toe of this and you've got a roundy-round and point-to-point layout.  Alternatively, you could change this into a an end-to-end U shape, or even connect the terminus up into a θ (theta) shape.  The advantage of this is that it gives you a little bit more layout.  The disadvantages of this are that it gives you a little bit more layout - this means more construction work, it halves your minimum visible radius from approx. 2 metres to approx. 1 metre - which you then might want to hide, but to do so forces you to break up the scene (with the round-the-walls you can stand or sit in the middle of the room and view the entire run), makes it more toylike (because you don't get a prototype railway in that shape), and finally means you realistically need more operators to operate it, and you need to spend longer cleaning it.

 

so I'll repeat what I said before, which is to recommend to build it in sections, starting with the station area, because I think it's the simplest and most flexible bit should you have a change of heart.

 

So, my proposed first section consists of flat baseboards with four tracks, two platforms of about 2.5 metres in length (mk 3s are 23 metres long, add two 18 metre long power cars, is 197 metres, 646 feet) is about 2.5 metres long, add on a bit for good luck.  No turnouts.  Wiring for the track is rather straightforward, but you'll require colour light signals controlling departures both ends, and you might want to consider other LED lights for the layout as well, including for the low relief buildings if you want night time running, but that might be a future improvement job.

 

My suggestion would be to go for Scalescenes low relief flats - there's an advantage in buying the product once and printing them many times - http://scalescenes.com/products/TO10-Low-Relief-Flats .  I think they have been compressed a little bit and do look a little bit like an elephant has sat on them, but it might be possible to increase the depth of the balconies.  Built as double-height, the layout is long enough that they don't dominate - there'll be room elsewhere for low relief terraces).  You'll also need a retaining wall, http://scalescenes.com/products/R013-Retaining-Wall, platform of your choice, some Wills SS57 girder bridge kits for the bridge to the left of the plan (which is quite substantial), a station building to go over the top; some stairs and a lift http://scalescenes.com/products/R007-Footbridge, and some platform canopies, backscene, people, lamps, trolleys, etc.  To break it up a bit, keep the roof of the flats level but drop the ground down, so the number of storeys of the flats varies.

 

The result should look vaguely like this.

 

 

At this stage you have the opportunity to change things if you think you've bitten off more than you can chew and you want to revise your plans.  You can run this initially as an up and down or route a track round the back and use it as a little roundy-roundy.   If you think at this stage it's all getting a bit too much (and there's a fair amount of building construction to do), you can work out an alternate arrangement for what would be a pretty big layout in itself within the baseboards.  If not, then work slowly round the room in sections as advised.  The starting point is I think the buildings; get the station building done first, perhaps some canopies, and then try to tackle the flats (there's a lot of flats - you are going to get sick of the flats, but the effect should ultimately be worth it in the end).  

[Removed a/c]

Thanks again Tony, 

 

I think like most of us we want to cram everything in and then realize it will not work. My initial concept was to have a ECML feel from London up to York with maybe a station in the middle. 

 

I think that I suffer from money is no object and I can pull this off syndromes........................neither which are true LOL.  Part of the problem may also stem from building something and spending my hard earned and then it not being what I wanted and having to correct it (assuming I know how) without damaging the track etc so it can be reused.

 

I do like that station area you have posted, and would definitely give me space from my HSTs!! I had planned to incorporate the Scalescenes flats somewhere so that works out great too. I wanted to have a city feeling and I think I could build that over the curved section behind the station. 

 

Regards 

Scott 

[TonyMay]

I think that project management and budgeting is an important part of the whole planning process.  You need a rough idea of what it will cost, what skills you will need to employ and how long it will take to build.  Stock is the obvious expense, but the tendency (me included) is to buy individual things that you like rather than things that fit into the overall strategy.

 

Building a biggish one requires confidence in various skills, and it may be worth creating a micro-layout or 2 in order to practice.  Keep the roundy-roundy as a test track and make a separate smallish back-and-forth.  Make sure you're happy with 00 gauge and don't want to go EM/P4.

 

Also, may be worth considering joining http://www.windsor-modular.com/index.php who should be able to offer practical advice as regards building stuff.  Check clearances but their H0 layout should be able to run (DCC chipped) British OO stock (yes it will look odd but it should be OK for testing).  (edit: Is a bit expensive to join though)

 

Incidentally, going on the name, Tinsley=Sheffield.  Field=Sheffield.  Steel = Sheffield.  EMT = Sheffield.  All you're really missing are Robert Carlyle, Mark Addy, William Snape, Steve Huison, Tom Wilkinson, Paul Barber, and Hugo Speer...

[Removed a/c]

There is an article in Model Railroader which I had considered building it is 5x8 layout and looks like it may suit my needs to help me get to grips with starting a layout. It always provides steps for scratch building some of the structures but also using RTP if you so choose. I think it may work and it's a manageable size I think without overwhelming. I t can be built as a roundy round but  can split into and end to end (L-shaped). It is set in the US obviously and also if based in the 1930s. I think though I shouldn't have any problem changing the locale and era. 

 

Currently I have been buying a lot of what I like stock wise and building wise. I ended up with the EMT HST and a EMT 153 based on that as it doesn't fit my era. 

 

I had planned on joining the WMRC as it only one street over from me. Maybe I could have North American stock for the club and OO for home  

 

The name does have a Sheffield ring to it and this was unintentional as I have never even heard of Tinsley until I got into the hobby just 2 years ago. It actually stems from Tynsley (street my Nan lived on in Shropshire) and Field from Dronfield where I live before coming to Canada. I worked in Sheffield so the steel industry appealed to me and I had seen the Walthers steel buildings now on a couple of layouts so had to give them a go. A small cameo to our Full Monty friends may be an option.....